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I have a friend that I have known for a year and a half. We work together and have become close friends. In the past 4 or 5 months I found out that the friend had had a 3 month EA and 3 month PA with another co-worker about 2 years ago. D-Day was 2 yrs ago after coworker and my friend got in a fight and the A was revealed/confessed to the BS in an emotional/drunken confession. BS talked it out with a few family members and decided to stay with my friend and give the Marriage ONE more chance.

The agreement was my friend was to not even talk to or look at the coworker. I was surprised that they did not go to MC and that BS didn't ask my friend to find another job. To me that was crazy. They work less than 50 ft apart, but are on separate projects and have no need for work interaction. I knew they communicated some, but generally avoided each other.

Here's the problem: Around the same time I found all this out, I was made aware of some communication between the coworker and the friend where the coworker was acting jealous and controlling of the friend. To me it seemed like an out of line reaction for a 2 year old A... So I asked the friend and sure enough there had been post D-Day contact. frown

From what I was told, communication went deep underground using hidden online accounts. It was mostly on again off again emails and chatting, but on several occasions became physical to include kissing and making out. They never went to the point of lying and going places again. One of those kissing occasions was as recent as 4 to 5 months ago! This was what concerned me the most, because as far as BS knows, there has been virtually NC, and here they are almost 2 years after the A and they are making out!

A few facts: Friend and BS are High School Sweethearts and have been married for about 4 years and are in their late 20's. Coworker is also married and in late 30's. I know the BS (not well) and I know one family member (fairly well) that knows of the A. Neither BS nor Family member know of the Post DD contact or kissing or that I know of the original A at all. So this is what I have to work with.

Over the last few months, I have tried to help my friend by being supportive and available to talk. I suggested that whenever the urge to talk to the coworker arises, to call or email me instead. I have tried to show my friend how much it's hurting the BS by trying to put myself in the BS's shoes and show what it's like from their perspective. I have stressed NC above all as the most important thing. I even got the friend to write a NC letter. I tried to get my friend to go to MC or at least IC, but they are not interested because of things between the friend and BS are "fine"

The one thing my friend was never really clear about was the reason for the A. When I ask about the BS, they are described as perfect and that that was nothing lacking in the marriage, that it was not the BS's fault. My friend says BS is perfect and all the fault lies with my friend. The only reason the friend can come up with is that there had never been anyone else, they never dated other people and were never "with" anyone else. So when to coworker came along and was interested, it was flattering and addicting. It was like they were in their own little world when not around their spouses. There is a lot of regret that my friend and the BS lost that one special thing that they shared prior to the PA, that they had never been with other people. My friend has even said they wish the BS would have an A to make it even.

After the NC letter, things seemed to be going well until a month ago when I found out they had talked a few times. Part of that was because my friend felt bad for ignoring the coworker and that it was worse than you would treat a stranger even. I had a talk with my friend and really tried to stress how any contact would be viewed by the BS and I explained that while the friend views the 3 month PA as one thing and the last 2 years of contact and several times kissing as separate things, the BS will not. The BS will see it as one long A that never ended, but started a little over a year after being married and continued in secret for the entire remainder of the marriage. I repeated back to my friend all the things that were being risked by continuing contact and it appeared we were back on track.

Things were good through the holidays but recently I was made aware of an communication between them initiated by my friend. According to my friend it was just to see how coworker was doing. I believe it was innocent as in not trying to start back with anything romantic, but it's breaking NC. I should point out that since the kissing 4 to 5 months ago, there has been nothing romantic going on and there is a lot of guilt/regret with the kissing even. I guess my concern is that any contact could lead to them getting drawn back into the A.

I am motivated to help because I am a friend, christian and I know what it's like to be hurt by someone you love. I don't know what else I can do. I feel like on one hand the BS should be told about things that have happened, but the friend says BS has indicated that in very clear terms forgiveness was a one time deal and that Divorce will be the result if it happens again. I don't want to be the secret relationship police forever either. I have indicated that my friendship with my friend is at risk also with continued contact. It's a hard thing to be supportive of the person, yet despising what the person has done. What are my options here?

Last edited by RandyMac; 01/19/09 03:16 PM. Reason: DD changed to D-Day
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Tell the WS he needs to find another job and confess to his BS (in front of you so you know he does it). If he doesn't, you will be forced to tell her. Don't worry about the friendship, first of all, you are being a friend to him by forcing him to do the right thing. Secondly, you don't need friends like that. If their spouse can't count on them, then you can't count on them. It isn't your job to support his secret life. That's what you are doing. He needs someone to talk about his affair to, and you are his outlet. In other words, you are enabling his affair.

In summary, push him to do the right thing, and if he doesn't, do the right thing for him (expose to his BS), and then distance yourself from him.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
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Randy, I am guessing that your friend from work is a woman. Am I correct?

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Originally Posted by keepitreal
Randy, I am guessing that your friend from work is a woman. Am I correct?

I didn't realize that at first, but looking at it more closely, it makes sense.

Randy, you should not be friends with this woman in the first place. You are putting your marriage and her marriage in jeopardy by having this close relationship with her. She should not be sharing secrets with you that she doesn't share with her husband. You are meeting needs her husband should be meeting. You need to tell her husband, and then completely remove yourself from this situation. Do not associate with her in the future.

Last edited by jmwc95; 01/19/09 05:35 PM.

Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
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Originally Posted by jmwc95
Tell the WS he needs to find another job and confess to his BS (in front of you so you know he does it). If he doesn't, you will be forced to tell her. Don't worry about the friendship, first of all, you are being a friend to him by forcing him to do the right thing. Secondly, you don't need friends like that. If their spouse can't count on them, then you can't count on them. It isn't your job to support his secret life. That's what you are doing. He needs someone to talk about his affair to, and you are his outlet. In other words, you are enabling his affair.

In summary, push him to do the right thing, and if he doesn't, do the right thing for him (expose to his BS), and then distance yourself from him.
I have pushed the idea of changing jobs with my friend and they are trying to find something. The coworker supposedly is trying also, but I suspect that there is even less effort. I wish the BS would have insisted on that 2 years ago.

My concern about the friendship is that I would be going back on my promise that I made. I suppose when I originally found out, I had already suspected what had happened in the past, but had no idea it had continued. I had promised to never tell anyone. (as in gossip to other people) I suppose I didn't technically promise to not say anything about the things that happened after D-Day to the BS.

I guess I feel like it's the friend's place to tell the BS, not mine about the post D-Day hookups. The friend has not done anything bad with the coworker since the 4-5 month ago incident(except for communication). If I were to suggest telling the BS about everything, the friend would ask why? The friend's position is that things are fine with the BS and bringing all that up again would just create problems that otherwise don't exist. The friend's fear is that the BS will leave the marriage as indicated when the friend was forgiven the first time.

in some ways I wish I never knew anything. I know more about the situation than anyone besides the friend and the coworker. I feel like I have a responsibility and an opportunity and I want to use it wisely.

It sucks to be where I am. I despise the A and the continued contact. I think I have helped with reducing the contact and making the friend realize why it is wrong even when no one finds out. The friend kept this a secret from EVERYONE for 2 years. Another concern of mine is that revealing anything myself will burn that bridge and I will no longer be trusted or in a position to help.

I thought I would keep gender out of this post for some anonymity unless it's relevant. Randy and Mac were cats I had growing up 25 years ago:)

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I thought I would keep gender out of this post for some anonymity unless it's relevant.

It is certainly relevant because from all appearances, because of your closeness with your "friend", you have become OM#2. You should NOT be involved in any way with a married woman, especially, helping her keep secrets from her husband.


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
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In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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What I'm guessing is that Randy Mac is female, not a male.

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You might be right.


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
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I thought I would keep gender out of this post for some anonymity unless it's relevant.

Gender is relevant if you are the opposite gender as your friend. Is that the case?

If you are the same gender, it doesn't matter.

If your friend killed someone, would you be morally obligated to turn them in to the authorities? Of course you would. This is no different. If doing the right thing was easy, everyone would do it. You need to do the right thing and expose your friend's behavior to their spouse. It sucks, but it's the right thing to do.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
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Better yet put yourself in the shoes of the BS. Would you want to know that your Wayward Wife was not a FWW but a current WW. At this rate, they will be back in a full blown EA/PA in no time.


Me: 32 BS DDay: 9/14/08
Slowly coming to the realization that I
am one of those who can't get past it.
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Originally Posted by princessmeggy
It is certainly relevant because from all appearances, because of your closeness with your "friend", you have become OM#2. You should NOT be involved in any way with a married woman, especially, helping her keep secrets from her husband.
Lord have mercy...I don't need help with MY relationship with my friend! I am far from the OM#2 or OW#2 - being good friends is what got me this information. I am not helping my friend keep secrets from their spouse. I want the BS to be more aware. I want the friend to talk to the BS about it.

My personal thoughts are the BS should know about everything post D-Day no matter how good things are. A POSSIBLE compromise to me would be IF my friend was going NC 100% and actively taking steps to put that in the past and working with the BS to make sure it could never happen again - I could agree that the post D-Day stuff could remain a secret. I am still torn though - I could not live with the guilt.

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Originally Posted by HURTandSHOCKED
Better yet put yourself in the shoes of the BS. Would you want to know that your Wayward Wife was not a FWW but a current WW. At this rate, they will be back in a full blown EA/PA in no time.
YES - 100% I would want to know.
I would want to hear it from my spouse in an ideal situation.

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Originally Posted by RandyMac
Lord have mercy...I don't need help with MY relationship with my friend! I am far from the OM#2 or OW#2 - being good friends is what got me this information.

If you and friend are not the same gender then yes you DO need help -- with setting boundaries. A male and female should NEVER have intimate conversations if one of them is married. Period. There lies the very slippery slope to adultery.

That said, if I were you I'd tell your friend that they have to confess to BS or you will. Insist on proof of the confession, such as you being a witness (not a bad idea, in case one of them wants to get violent) or having BS call you and let you know they've been told about the A.

I'd encourage BS to insist on friend getting a different job, NC with co-worker for life, counseling with the Harleys or attending a MB weekend, and I'd tell BS about this site.

I don't think that marriage has much of a chance, with the affair going on for 3 out of the 4 years. I think BS should get out before any children are born. BS can do better.

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I am not helping my friend keep secrets from their spouse.

Yes you are.

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IF my friend was going NC 100% and actively taking steps to put that in the past and working with the BS to make sure it could never happen again - I could agree that the post D-Day stuff could remain a secret.

If there is ANY post-D-Day action, it is NOT your place to determine whether to tell or not IF your friend agrees to no further contact from here on out. The BS has a right to know that there has been post-D-Day contact. The BS has a right to that information to decide for themself whether THEY want to believe WS. You don't get to make that call. It's not your marrige. Period.


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
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In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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You are letting your friend drag you down into their muck. How about some character and integrity to do the right thing?


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
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RM, it makes for horribly tortured reading to never say "he" or "she" and seems like a lot of effort to go to in an anonymous forum. Do you really think if we knew whether your friend is male or female, we would know EXACTLY, out of the millions of people in this world, who these friends are?

Just a simple question, please. Are you the same sex as your friend? Yes or no?

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Originally Posted by keepitreal
RM, it makes for horribly tortured reading to never say "he" or "she" and seems like a lot of effort to go to in an anonymous forum. Do you really think if we knew whether your friend is male or female, we would know EXACTLY, out of the millions of people in this world, who these friends are?

Just a simple question, please. Are you the same sex as your friend? Yes or no?

Yes, opposite sex, my concern was not that you guys were going to figure who I was talking about, but if they read it or the spouses read it. I suppose no-one knowing that I know helps. This makes me nervous, but I suppose the internet is a big place...

I rewrote the original post:

I have a friend that I have known for a year and a half. We work together and have become close friends. In the past 4 or 5 months I found out that She had had a 3 month EA and 3 month PA with a Male co-worker (OM) about 2 years ago. D-Day was 2 yrs ago after OM and my friend got in a fight and the A was revealed/confessed to the BS in an emotional/drunken confession. BS talked it out with a few family members and decided to stay with her and give the Marriage ONE more chance.

The agreement was She was to not even talk to or look at the OM. I was surprised that they did not go to MC and that BS didn't ask her to find another job. To me that was crazy. They work less than 50 ft apart, but are on separate projects and have no need for work interaction. I knew they communicated some, but generally avoided each other.

Here's the problem: Around the same time I found all this out, I was made aware of some communication between the OM and my friend where the OM was acting jealous and controlling of my friend. To me it seemed like an out of line reaction for a 2 year old A... So I asked my friend and sure enough there had been post D-Day contact. frown

From what I was told, communication went deep underground using hidden online accounts. It was mostly on again off again emails and chatting, but on several occasions became physical to include kissing and making out. They never went to the point of lying and going places again. One of those kissing occasions was as recent as 4 to 5 months ago! This was what concerned me the most, because as far as BS knows, there has been virtually NC, and here they are almost 2 years after the A and they are making out!

A few facts: Friend and BS are High School Sweethearts and have been married for about 4 years and are in their late 20's. OM is also married and in late 30's. I know the BS (not well) and I know one family member (fairly well) that knows of the A. Neither BS nor Family member know of the Post DD contact or kissing or that I know of the original A at all. So this is what I have to work with.

Over the last few months, I have tried to help my friend by being supportive and available to talk. I suggested that whenever the urge to talk to the OM arises, to call or email me instead (I have also suggested thinking of the BS or calling the BS). I have tried to show my friend how much She's hurting the BS by trying to put myself in the BS's shoes and show what it's like from His perspective. I have stressed NC above all as the most important thing. I even got the friend to write a NC letter. I tried to get my friend to go to MC with BS or at least IC, but She is not interested because of things between Her and BS are "fine"

The one thing my friend was never really clear about was the reason for the A. When I ask about the BS, He is described as perfect H and that that was nothing lacking in the marriage, that it was not the BS's fault. My friend says BS is perfect and all the fault lies with Her. The only reason She can come up with is that there had never been anyone else, they never dated other people and neither one had been "with" anyone else. So when the OM came along and was interested, it was flattering and addicting. It was like they were in their own little world when not around their spouses. There is a lot of regret that my friend and the BS lost that one special thing that they shared prior to the PA, that they had never been with other people. My friend has even said She wishes the BS would have an A to make it even.

After the NC letter, things seemed to be going well until a month ago when I found out they had talked a few times. Part of that was because She felt bad for ignoring the OM and that it was worse than She would treat a stranger even. I had a talk with Her and really tried to stress how any contact would be viewed by the BS and I explained that while She views the 3 month PA as one thing and the last 2 years of contact and several times kissing as separate things, the BS will not. The BS will see it as one long A that never ended, but started a little over a year after being married and continued in secret for the entire remainder of the marriage. I repeated back to Her all the things that were being risked by continuing contact and it appeared She was back on track.

Things were good through the holidays but recently I was made aware that she initiated a communication with the OM. According to my friend it was just to see how OM was doing. I believe it was innocent as in not trying to start back with anything romantic, but it's still breaking NC. I should point out that since the kissing 4 to 5 months ago, there has been nothing romantic going on and there is a lot of guilt/regret with the kissing even. I guess my concern is that any contact could lead to them getting drawn back into the A.

I am motivated to help because I am Her friend, Christian and I know what it's like to be hurt by someone you love. I don't know what else I can do. I feel like on one hand the BS should be told about things that have happened, but She says BS has indicated that in very clear terms forgiveness was a one time deal and that Divorce will be the result if it happens again. I don't want to be the secret relationship police forever either. I have indicated that my friendship with Her is at risk also with continued contact. It's a hard thing to be supportive of the person, yet despising what the person has done. What are my options here?

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Originally Posted by RandyMac
The one thing my friend was never really clear about was the reason for the A.

Your friend is having an A because she wants to. It has nothing to do with her spouse or what she may have missed out on years ago. She is a selfish, cruel person. Your friend is correct...all the fault lies with her.

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She felt bad for ignoring the OM and that it was worse than She would treat a stranger even.

Yet she has no problem treating her BH like dirt. :RollieEyes: Excuse # 188.

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I had a talk with Her and really tried to stress how any contact would be viewed by the BS and I explained that while She views the 3 month PA as one thing and the last 2 years of contact and several times kissing as separate things, the BS will not. The BS will see it as one long A that never ended, but started a little over a year after being married and continued in secret for the entire remainder of the marriage.

Seeing it as a single or multiples is irrelevant. Stop with the semantics. Betrayal is betrayal, period.

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I am motivated to help because I am Her friend, Christian and I know what it's like to be hurt by someone you love. I don't know what else I can do.

You know what to do you just don't want to do it. Your warped friendship is more important to you than doing right by the betrayed and God. You are no friend to this woman. You are a hypocrite.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
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This is a clear example as to why a Wayward cannot continue to work with the affair partner. Her marriage will not survive the continued contact, its only a matter of time. You need to advise her to leave before something happens or the OM's wife finds out and tells her BS. There will be no talking her way out of it again. She has to chose...her job or her marriage.

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Tell her betrayed husband. You shouldn't worry about your friendship because you should not even have a friendship with someone of the opposite sex who is married anyway. It's time to spill the beans, so her husband can start working on their marriage again.

Let me ask you this, if your wife was cheating from someone on the office, would you like for it to continue and no one tell you about it, or would you like one of her coworkers to tell you so you could do something about it?

There is probably a 99% chance that your friend's husband will not divorce her. If he does, it'll probably be because of her actions after he finds out, like not agreeing to no contact and switching jobs.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
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