I have been wanting to post a question, and describe my situation to the forum, but felt that it may not be the right forum since it seems to deal mostly with “ordinary” people. After consulting one of the participants here in the forum via mail I was encouraged to post this message.

My marriage has been really a roller coaster.

The first year we were married my wife had two affairs, one soul-mate type affair, and one love-letter type affair. We moved to another country and got our first child, and then three more kids, and during the first 10 years of our marriage there were no more affairs.

On our 10th anniversary we visited the country we first lived in, and my wife revealed that she was in love with the man of the love-letter affair from our first year, and that she wanted to stay with him (and leave our 4 kids with me at home).

I managed to get her back home, but it took a few months for her to break the affair which continued via letters (as it had for more than 6 months prior to our anniversary).

During the next 10 years she had a about 4 “mild” affairs, short infatuations, involving writing letters, talking on the phone a lot, meeting someone in the class she attended etc.

The last 8 years have been really tough: an affair every second, or every year. Mostly it starts with a soul-mate relationship via email, or meeting a man for talks (the last one is our pastor).

I have seen a pattern, and very many signs of a bipolar disorder appear: periods of low (not really depression, but being despondent, and having very low self esteem), and then periods of high with a lot of activity, bursts of speech and ideas, impulsive behaviour, heavy spending, high consumtion of alcohol etc

I bought Harvey’s books 2003, and have asked her to read them, but she has never really wanted to.

My question is: if it is the bipolar disorder that is behind all this, is it still worthwhile to use the methods and thoughts behind the Marriage Builders, or is all hope really lost?

I am getting tired and fed up.

Since 2001 when I started suspecting that it was some kind of disorder behind all this, I have usually put my “fist down on the table” as we say in Swedish, by giving her an ultimatum: either break with the Other Person, or else I want us to separate (or divorce). The three serious times I actually in parallel also contacted the other person and explained everything to him, and it turns out that they were not really looking for a real relationship, they were just flattered that she confirmed their self esteem (in short).

In 2003 I went to therapy, and the therapist actually suggested that my wife has a bipolar disorder with what he called hypomania (mild mania), and with a unipolar tendency, i.e. the depressions are mild. But she has never accepted the thought that she might have a disorder, and does not want to go to therapy and talk about it. For her the hypomanic phase is the what she regards to be her best time, when she feels normal, confident and looks on life positively, and when she looses this she feels "down" (but I wouldn´t classify it as outright depression).

In most cases I am sure that it has not lead to any sexual relationships (might be an exception to the affair on the first and 10th year, where she did not answer me at all when I asked if they had any sexual encounter).

However during her passions she becomes very sexually active (with me) and has a lot of promiscuous phantasies that she wants to share with me, to the point that it is embarrassing to me. (She has also encouraged me to have an affair in order for me to experience what she describes as an fantastic experience).

My wife grew up in a very dysfunctional home, with an absent (working) father, and an alcoholic, narcistic mother, and she says she never heard her parents say they loved her.

So a lot of her search is for confirmation of being loved and appreciated (and I try my utmost every day to give her that…).

She also has a tendency to search for men that remind her of her father, and that are a bit quiet, or pitiful in some way, either they are divorced, or have failed at work etc.

Any ideas or thoughts you might have are deeply appreciated.


Pherman

perherman@gmail.com

Any particular reason why you choose to remain in that nightmare of an M? Consider what your kids are learning from the experience so far.

I suspect you have no other replies because no one knows what to say. It seems you are married to a seriously unbalanced woman.

MarriageBuilders, at its roots, is not built for that depth of mental problem.

To me, the only thing to do is draw a boundary -- you get intensive and immediately psychiatric care, or we are done.

Otherwise you are enabling a condition that is hurting your whole family, most of all your wife...

Yes, Mike is right...And with Bipolar Disorder it is not only medication that is important, but meds in conjunction with counseling...BECAUSE, part of that disorder is to believe that you don't need the meds, and there is no pill that can convince you to take a pill...Meds & Counseling...It's the ONLY way...Right now, you don't solely have a "marital problem", what you have is a "mental health problem" that is impacting your whole lives negatively...That must be fixed first...

Mrs. W

I agree completely. You're enabling it by accepting it. Tell her she either goes into intensive therapy, or you're taking the kids and moving on.

I agree with the others. IF this is a mental/emotional disorder, then it is beyond plain old "Marriage Building" and meds and therapy are called for.

I would make seeing a therapist and getting a full evaluation a requirement for staying married. If a disorder is diagnosed, I'd consult with the therapist regarding what requirements are necessary and reasonable for continuing the marriage - i.e. therapy for life, meds with a "checkup" and re-evaluation every (1 year? 5 years?).

Regardless of whether or not a disorder is diagnosed, I think I would ask her to sign a post-nuptial agreement (not sure if they have those in Sweden) whereby she agrees that if she has any more affairs, emotional or physical - and this includes love letters! - that you get full custody of the children and all marital assets including the family home, savings, retirement accounts, etc.

If she still cannot control herself with all that hanging over her head, then you are better off divorcing her. Custody means you can protect your children from her illness, and the financial aspects mean you can provide for your children's food, shelter, clothing, health care, and education.

Welcome to Marriage Builders.

Well, the main reason is that I love her. And in between episodes she really loves me and shows it.

The second reason is that the infatuations flare up rapidly, and die very soon after I intervene (except the one in our 10th year).

The third reason is that she is a wonderful mother, and takes very good care of the kids, the home (and me).

The fourth reason is that all the relationships have been platonic (except maybe the first two), a soul-mate type (which still hurts like hell). If they hade been sexual I would not have been able to cope (I think).

All the affairs have been 'low-key', meaning that not many people know about them, and the kids do not.

When I say I suspect she has a bipolar disorder I want to emphasize that on a scale she has a mild disorder. Most people do not notice it. Some people will regard her as naive and extravert, and extremely friendly. No one has ever approached me to ask if she has a mental disorder.

Although the bipolar meds are effective, I would look into alternative nutritional therapies as well as therapy with psychologist first. I know a man that has been on bi-polar meds for about nearly 20 yrs. He has definitely lost some of his mental capacities due to the bi-polar meds. It has been scary to watch his mental decline. Although he is 59, at times it seems like he has dementia.

I like the idea of a post-nup. She needs some kind of consequences for her bad behavior. It is so sad for you and your kids that you've had this going on for your whole marriage. I can't imagine how you've endured.

I fail to see how she could be a wonderful mother and take good care of the kids (and you) when her energies - both physical and emotional - are being spent on another man.

While for men an affair is usually about sex, for women it's usually about the emotional bonding. Thus, the soulmate type affair is the most dangerous for a woman. I think you are down-playing how serious her soulmate affairs are.

The affairs are low-key because you do not expose. And history repeats itself. If you expose she is not as likely to stray, because she won't like the consequences. You are enabling her affairs. You are failing to protect your marriage by helping her cover up her dirty little secrets.

I don't mean to bash you and I am sorry if it comes across that way. I think you have been living in this dysfunctional marriage for so long that you have forgotten what normal looks like. That is sad.

I agree, it is firstmost a mental health problem.

4 years ago we moved from our old town after a soul-mate affair with a divorced pastor (my wife at that time worked part time in church).

In the place we lived now she began what I interpreted as the beginning of an affair, and which stopped when I contacted the man and explained her problem, and it turns out that he was really bothered by her persuing him. We went abroad for a holiday, and everything became "fine".

Since about a year she has been wanting to quit her job, which she did this summer.

In the spring she decided to got for councelling with our pastor (whom I trust). The problem she wants councelling for is her low esteem, and low sense of value.

This councelling session has become a "passion" for her. She mails him, calls him, SMS:s all the time. She regards him as her very deep friend.

When we went abroad for a holiday (the whole family) it stopped, and now just before christmas it started again.

I am not worried that the pastor has any interest, but I am a bit surprised that he does not see through her behaviour and find it strange.

I have (once in a while) controlled her email to see his response, and I realize that he answers with a bit of a cold shoulder, even though he gives her comforting words also, which might encourage her.

So in short - in a sense she has made progress since our move, because in the years 2000-2004 she had an affair (soul-mate based) once every year.

I am waiting to decide when or how to bring up the issue about the need for her to go to professional medical help.

In 2004 when we had are last serious crisis we both went for therapy, she reluctantly, but I think that she fooled the therapist, and I never got to know if they really talked about her affairs (her passions she calls them) at all.

I feel stupid to propose for her to go to therapy and medication without hard proof: She can hide behind the fact that the pastor is her councellor.

In Sweden one cannot write a post-nup agreement to the effect that only one of the parties gets all the money.

However I think that the fact that I have been the main provider, and she really has liked being home with the kids, and being a home maker, is a strong reason for her to controll herself.

She does not really want to work, and I have given her a lot of security.

THe notion that I leave her and that she needs to support herself is (I think) as scary as it gets for her!

Yes fine, because people in Bipolar mania often times "hyper-focus" on one thing or another...Removing them from the environment can cause a shift in focus for them...Then it's on to the next thing...very common...


Yes, it is always something else besides the REAL problem...Many people with Bipolar Disorder are VERY RELUCTANT to accept their diagnosis...also common...


Hyper-focus again.


Change of environment, it stops...then once again, back to hyper-focus...


I'm not surprised in the least. Even trained psychiatric professionals can be fooled by the very cunning Bipolar disorder...



When? Now. How? "Honey, I can no longer choose to live with you with while you remain unmedicated for your Bipolar Disorder." (boundary)


Hard proof? She has been diagnosed, right? That is your "hard proof"...The pastor is NOT a medical doctor, a psychiatrist is.

Mrs. W

I agree that me not exposing it more has protected her. In that way I have been acting like the partner of an alcoholic.

In 2002, and 2004 (the last affairs which where most serious) I told my co-workers, the pastors, my closes friends, and my relatives. In both cases I said I wanted a divorce, and in the 2002 case she also wanted one.

I think that this (my exposing her) has helped my wife to controll herself, since the three cases here (where we live near my relatives) have been really nothing compared to what happened on our old town.

The first case here was just the fact that I noticed her smiling, and googling one of the churchmembers here (married) but I think that he gave her very cold shoulders back, whith the result that nothing happened (during that hypomanic period).

The second case was the local farmer who grazes his cattle on our land, and lasted for maybe two weeks, she visited him to ask about how to take care of the land, she sent SMS:s and talked on the phone. I contacted him and told him what her problem is, and afterwards we went on a preebooked trip abroad, and the passion died out during our stay abroad.

Now with this pastor "thing" I have been hopeful that he as a councellor would see that she is infatuated with him, and that he would use his professional councelling skills to "discourage" and turn of the passion. This is what I have heard from other pastors that they are tought during their pastors councelling training.

So my hope has been that she has been on a positive development (relativaly) compared to previous years!

I have not approached the pastor since (by swedish law) what a person says in spiritual councelling is to be held secret, and I have not wanted him to think that I am meddling with the legal secrecy.

So how to I bring the subject to his attention?

Maybe I am just naive, and afraid to realize the truth?

I think that your pastor should know that she is mentally ill, yes. That would not be a matter of him violating privilege.

Mrs. W

She has not been diagnosed by a professional. I have described the symptoms and the behaviour to my psychotherapist, and he said that that description fits what he called a "unipolar hypomania with supressed depression" (and of a milder type).

Ahhhhh...okay...She needs to be properly diagnosed...This is of the utmost importance...

How about saying:

"Honey, it is obvious to me that something is terribly wrong. I love you and it is important to me that you have the best medical care. Here is the name and phone number of a very good doctor, let's call and make an appointment together."

Mrs. W

*Go with her to the appointment. The doctor will need your descriptions of her behavior.*

Mrs. W

Yes, I realize that. I will need to muster up strength for this!

On Thursday we are celebrating her 50th birthday.

I will be loggin of now for today, night time here in Sweden.


Thanks so much for all your responses (all of you!).

God bless!

First off, with her background you don't need to feel "stupid" for anything except accepting the status quo.

Secondly, if you have a sit down with her pastor yourself and he doesn't recommend to her that she get serious professional help he should be de-frocked or whatever is the correct term. My pastor listened but IMMEDIATELY referred is to professionals. And he should know that you suspect he is a target of her latest serial obsession.

You aren't doing her a favor by being....I struggle for the right term...timid...complacent...in this situation.

Does she not see anything wrong with her 'passions' at all...even through her mental illness which she won't acknowledge?

It seems like she feels entitled to have them and they feel natural to her and something that she doesn't think she needs to control.

Does she even have an explanation as to why she feels like she has a right to go from passion to passion (infatuations etc.) all the time without recognition that it is not something one should be doing while married?

Since she doesn't think there is anything wrong with her what has her explanation been/justify her behavior? How would she feel, in reality, if you were doing the same things?

Odd stuff this is.

Her behavior just about warrants in-patient intense therapy.