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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I would point out that MB concepts don't end ALL affairs in the first place. [and make no such claims] In this situation, the BS can't exactly demand that the WS go to some "professional" to take some mythical test with a 100% guarantee to discern if she is or isn't a lesbian so he can decide whether or not to proceed. And what if he were able to save his marriage yet the test indicated she was "more' lesbian but he didn't know this because he never tried? What then?

This just does not seem like a practical concern to me that can be rationally resolved.

The Harleys can and do counsel these situations just like all the others. Like I said earlier, they are very unfront about who they can or can't help.

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MB is a program based on RESTORING romantic love. If that wasn't there in the first place, then it's unlikely to work.

What do you base this on? This hasn't been my personal experience and I have never heard the Harleys make this claim. Can you elaborate?

I base it on the fact that the Dr Harley has said many times that the WS was PROBABLY in love with the betrayed spouse and if you can do many of the things done before the LB's started and less care was made in making deposits in the love bank then the wayward's taker will think the marriage still has benefits for them.

It's my impression. He may not have said it in the same words I've used. But a good portion of the program is geared towards RESTORING romantic love.

I'll see if I can find quotes where he says this. I'm sure I've heard this listening to the webcast. I'll see if there is text here to support this impression I have.


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Found it

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The purpose of the Marriage Buildersᆴ web site is to help you to create and implement a plan to resolve your conflicts in a way that will restore and sustain your love for each other.

How to Create....

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Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
It's my impression. He may not have said it in the same words I've used. But a good portion of the program is geared towards RESTORING romantic love.

EE, you are right in that it can be restored, but it can also be CREATED. There are marriages here that NEVER had romantic love in which it can be created using these principles. There is nowhere they exclude marriages that have not experienced romantic love. Here is an excerpt from an article written by his daughter, Dr. Chalmers about a conference she attended:

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Several times I felt like shouting out to the thousands of fellow therapists, "The feeling of love is not only something that can be created, but it's essential to every marriage. I help couples restore their love for each other every week. And so do countless others who use Dr. Harley's 'Four Guidelines for Successful Negotiation' when counseling."

Romantic Love: Is it a Realistic Goal for Marriage Therapy?



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
I think there is merit to the concern that if she is more attracted to women and always HAS been more attracted to women, but married because she felt some pressure to conform, that she will not want to return to the marriage.

EE,

I have also read where Dr. Harley claims some measure of success in actually reforming people from their homosexuality ...

***edit***

Last edited by Maverick_mb; 01/21/09 02:22 PM. Reason: disrespectful
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MelodyLane,

I don't doubt that it can be created. However, if it never really existed in the first place, that is one more barrier to a spouse even considering the program.

Therefore I still stand by the idea that MB is less successful when there was no initial Romantic Love.

You have to understand, I consider part of any programs success the willingness of folks to engage in the program. I understand that Dr H and others will not treat those who refuse to enter the program as failures, since they didn't do what he suggested.

Frankly, in LB terminology, that's a DJ.

It may be right, it may be all them.


--OR--

There may be aspects of the program that need improvement to sell the program to the reluctant spouse.

I don't think I said it was impossible for MB to work when there was no initial romantic love. I seldom paint myself into such corners.

I think I said I believe it's less likely to work in circumstances where other drivers were the primary motivations to marry, such as escaping parents, an unplanned pregnancy, marrying for money, etc.

These folks are likely not going to be convinced by Dr H's promises for success. Therefore, saving the marriage, and or building romantic love is far less likely.

I think that is what I said, and it's not inconsistent with what Jennifer is saying here. While something can be done, the probability of it happening is a different question.

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Originally Posted by MyRevelation
Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
I think there is merit to the concern that if she is more attracted to women and always HAS been more attracted to women, but married because she felt some pressure to conform, that she will not want to return to the marriage.

EE,

I have also read where Dr. Harley claims some measure of success in actually reforming people from their homosexuality ...

rotflmao

rotflmao


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hurtingnside is a new BS who is here for help learning MB concepts. Those that wish to help him with that goal in mind, please continue to do so. No more juvenile disruptions to this thread will be tolerated.

Thank you.

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Hurtinginside,

I hope the discussion hasn't chased you away and that you are at least reading everything on this site. Treat this as any affair, since your marriage can't recover until the affair ends. This means get snooping (you've already done some, I see but do more - get tangible proof). If the A is still active, expose. Exposure is the single best weapon against an affair, and I bet it will be even more effective in this case. Affairs thrive in secrecy. Bringing them out to the light of day can end them. But it has to be done swiftly and completely in a nuclear fashion, so the WS has no time to prepare anyone (make it seem like you are a raving lunatic or something).

As for her anger, this is extremely typical for waywards. The reason is because you've "ruined" her ability to cake-eat. She has become accustomed to being happily married and having something on the side at the same time. Like a spoiled child, when you take one of these away, she throws a temper tantrum. This is the expected response to anything you do that damages the affair. It's a good thing, really.

And when you exposed, be prepared for her to say she was going to work on the marriage but now you've ruined that. It is also typical.

If your marriage is to have any chance whatsoever, the affair has to end. It doesn't matter if it's a hetero or homosexual affair - no marriage can survive and active affair.

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Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
I don't doubt that it can be created. However, if it never really existed in the first place, that is one more barrier to a spouse even considering the program.

Therefore I still stand by the idea that MB is less successful when there was no initial Romantic Love.

You have to understand, I consider part of any programs success the willingness of folks to engage in the program.

EE, I don't know if MB is less successful when there was no romantic love in the first place, I have never seen any indication of that whatsoever and it was not so in my own case. But I would agree there would be a barrier if there was no willingness. If there is no willingness, obviously the program couldn't work; a program can't work if you don't work it. MB cannot control a person's willingness, of course, as long as people have free will. But it will WORK successfully even though there was never romantic love in the first place because this program CREATES romantic love.

Dr Harley did mention that many couples who come to the MB weekend have at least ONE reluctant spouse and they are often able to turn that around. So sometimes they are able to make inroads even with the less than willing by selling them on the notion of romantic love.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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