:MrEEk:

I second smb.

Hey, where is SSS?

I hope a goat didn't eat her...

LOL, nope they are just little guys.

I was sitting here staring into space when my BB rang your post.

I am so tired and sick of this, as everyone is.

I visited last night. He said some good things, looks like the few counseling sessions were good for him. It also sounds like they were fairly close to what Dr. Harley said to me yesterday. He was sweet and tearful but I can't buy it yet and probably not for a long long time if ever.

He is coming home if the Dr. ever gets there to release him. Hope he beats the snow. He is on Anti D's with an anti anxiety component. I am not certain I am happy he is coming home although I miss him since he has actually spent time with me since DD #1, all his time.

I think I have figured out part of why I am so stressed, as if there was not a reason just because of all he has done. This man has compartmentalized me out of his life. He ignored me for the most part and only marginally played the roll of husband. Now, since I found out about his second, care free life he has been so attentive and nice. I KNOW this is just part of the game with him but it feels like everything I have ever wanted so I am having to figure out how to be strong in the face of this until I can feel a little safer. That may be a very long time though. I will accept it but I will not buy it I guess.

This morning I went over his cell phone bill and found a ton of toll free calls. They were suspicious because of the timing of them and it looked like the kind of timing he had with his last 6 year A. I thought she used Internet phone and the numbers might come up that way. I spoke with him this morning about it and he was very upset and told me they were all legit and that he would call them with me when he gets home. I already called, I could not bear the pain in my gut. They were legit. Wow, he did not lie.

Oh well. I am a mess but I will get through this.

Mike, I hope your appointment went well last evening. I finally went and read your thread again. I am so sorry. It really sucks. I also have a nice house that I designed and built without his help and he did that here too. I think that hurts almost the most, that or his inviting her here to the open house and introducing me to her. WTF was that? Slap in the face I think.

Well, of course it is a nasty thing to do, but for some reason, they all love to drag their side pork into the family home.

Guess so. Such a shame. My house guest stayed an extra day last weekend and when I was away playing concerts he and WH scoured and bleached the room he and the OP had played in. It was a special room I had worked extra hard on and I just could not make myself go into it anymore. They scrubbed it and everything in it for an entire day and bought plants since I had let all the plants die. It was not WH's idea but he agreed and did it. I am sitting in it right now.

I may never forgive him for introducing me to her. Among everything else, that really hurts.

I think i mentioned this, or your doctor should, but anti/d anti/as are like music....what soothes one person grates on another. I had to go through 2 or 3 to find the chemistry that didn't make me homicidal, suicidal, or catatonic. Everyone will tell you 'this one is great!'. Yep, it was great for them, that is all that means.


Don't feel lonely, this is a syndrome which strikes one out of every one affair.

Our therapist last night look at us and said, "I guarantee there is one constant in both your lives, whether it is now or before you (WW) went out and had an affair. You were lonely in your marriage."

That was a pretty interesting way to put it.


Do you really think it was carefree? OW sounds like a witch. My WW''s OM was Mr. Wonderful....heck, even *I* liked him when we spoke after D-day. I think I'd prefer the ex-wh0re manic psycho, personally. Not much to be nostalgic about.


ROFL....the month after D-day I looked at our cell phone bill. The OM had a block on his line so it would come up "restricted" or something. So I see all these calls by WW with weird numbers, not even phone numbers. Like five a day. Just like she used to do during the affair.

So i call her at work and go nuts, she's crying that she doesn't know what I'm talking about...

So I call the phone company. Those numbers were what it recorded when she checked her voicemail.

Oops. :-) Blew a lot of guilt leverage on that one.

OMG Mike, I did the same thing with the voice mail. I freaked out about it as well as her number. I thought he had another way to get to her. Her number was not hard to spot, about 25 calls a day. He would speak to her on the phone each day more than he spoke to me in a week and then he spent time with her as well and on the computer with her until the wee hours when he was not sneaking out.

I was lucky, the second Anti D was great. The first one made me climb the walls. He does not know about his yet, he has only taken one. It will take a while for it to work apparently, mine worked very quickly and dramatically. He is still very fragile so I will try to hold my temper until then . He called for an appointment time with Dr. Harley as soon as he got home and wants to come back to the forum when he feels a bit stronger.

"You were lonely in your marriage." That is a very interesting way to put it. Every now and again someone just hits the nail right on the head. That sure would have worked here.

It was carefree for most of the 26 years. She did not turn into a witch until she sensed he was pulling away. Now she is just awful so I do have that advantage. It must really be hard to like the guy you wife was going to. Damn. That would be much more difficult than a girlfriend who calls you names and tries to extort money from you.

I just got my copy of Surviving An Affair. Now I have something productive to read when I can't sleep and the Australian Open is not on yet.

I know. after D-day they had a 44 minute call. I thought, she doesn't talk to me for 44 minutes in a month. Plus I keylogged these IMs where she just had to tell him every time she coughed or ate a cracker.


I literally had an anti-D that made immediatey made me suicidal. Never had a thought like that in my life. On them had them, off them didn't.


Okay....this is totally counter to what you read here, but having gone thru something approaching IC last night, he may not be ready to jump right into MB until he goes through whatever psych stuff he is into. To participate in MB you can be hurting and ashamed and lots of things but you can't be "nuts" (bad term). You have to be somewhat whole and rational to begin the relationship mending.

I'll probably get flamed for that, but I think your H's breakdown is a different sitch than normal.


Yes. A very clarity provoking term...


Well.... :-) ... let's not go overboard. I have never met him and only talked to him a total of maybe 20 minutes. But he was a "nice" guy....bawled his eyes out, pretty honest, tried to make me feel better.

Doesn't mean he doesn't have some dental appointments coming :-)

What is IC? I can't find nor can I figure that one out.

I have some very interesting insights into what has been going on with GM. As I think back of certain behaviors I thought were weird I see them now as part of this "sickness" they are talking about. The very need to sneak and hide things and lie,lie,lie. He lied about the stupidest stuff. There is something there for certain, it is coming together for me. Right now I am having to pull my bootstraps up and hold him together. He is very fragile. It is the old get on your knees, look me in the LOOK AT ME, I am here, we are together etc etc Man, I thought I was the one that would end up in the loony bin.

I actually think there is going to be a recovery here although I will probably not think that in 10 minutes . There is a sickness and when I think back I know it, I just thought he was strange.

I think Dr. Harley and MB will help him because the thing that is tipping him over the edge is his guilt and man oh man he must have a ton of it. He looks at me and cries. I do not think there is a way he could be acting this but I will still keep my guard up. Sounds like maybe your WW's OP could use some of that guard. Dental appointments, lol.

Me, I am trying to decide if GM should just send a short NC letter with the addition of her need to get checked for STD's because there were many many other women. Of course he was faithful to her but she does not need to know that and it would sure make me feel better if she thought she did not get entirely away with what she did. I am not a dishonest person but stated properly it would not be dishonest.....

Individual counseling.


Yeah....i think it just becomes part of the relationship dynamic. Then again, it could be just part of his coping syle. I know I lie too much, just to avoid conflict or get some little thing I want. In business, whatever, not just marriage.

[quote[I actually think there is going to be a recovery here although I will probably not think that in 10 minutes .[/quote]

lol....yeah, get ready for at least 5 months of that. I'll tell you when it stops. It helps to have a very repentant and attentive spouse.

It sounds to me like GM was on his way out of the A anyway, with all the conflict between him and OW. Maybe you are being spared all the usual affair mourning withdrawal stuff, or it is happening in 48 hours instead of two months.


Yeah, I'm probably wrong there. Steve helps everyone.


Personally I wouldn't. she is too volatile, and she definitely gets the drift already. I mean, when the sherriff comes to your door, right?

I know that is part of Steve's 'formula' but I think it is more for affairs with ambigious 'endings'.


Come on...what do you care if her crotch rots? An ex-wh0re needs to know her boyfriend was promiscious? :-)

Thanks Mike.

IC, I should have been able to figure that one out.

This flippy flopping around with our emotions is one evil thing to put someone you supposedly love through. My stomach is tossing and turning most of the time and do your nerves feel like jumping beans? Darn it stinks.

I do think I was spared a lot because of that on the front end of this thing but the back end has been a real killer. Ah, it matters not. It sucks no matter how you look at it and all of us here are suffering.

Yes, I know but I just wanted her to think she was not getting him to herself when she was so happily screwing my husband.

Sounds like I am blaming her a lot, well yes and no. She was just a working girl who found a sucker for anyone who would tell him how wonderful he is and then take him to bed.

These A's, all 26 years of them, are his and his alone as far as atonement goes. I am either going to get over this and have a queenly old age or I am going to be one pissed off ex wife. I already told him if we do not make it I would personally call every woman he takes out and tell them what he did. Twisting the knife. Still, while he falls apart and I pick him up I am building up the LB in a big way without having to swallow all of this and be nice. Worked out pretty well that way because it is mighty hard to be nice. I do not know how you are doing it.

Hey, I've been on this board since 1999 and I still look at some acronyms like the RCA victor dog.


It does get better. I didn't believe it after d-day when the vets here told me, but it does. It's like a wound or surgery where the docs say it is going to be x months and you don't believe it, but then one day you feel better.

I had a grand mal seizure in 2004 and almost totally bit my tongue off. The doc said "nine months for your mouth to heal". I was like "yah, tha is farging boosert yug lyig mofufagrer"

But it was about nine months and it was better.


there is a lot of parsing here of boundaries which I think is silly. Posters will say, "Wow, my wife fooled around but if it was in my house I'd never forgive it." Or if it was more than once or unprotected or they had walked in on it or it had continued after d-day or whatever, there are a hundred of them. THEN they would have been proud and walked away (inference: unlike YOU). I think it is a coping mechanism to make someone feel better about what they have come to forgive.

Soit isn't about what happened or even forgiveness, it is about how happy this person can make you in the future.

I guess, anyway.


Let it go. Letting her know she is still on your mind and a factor in your marriage is more of a victory for her. (this from a guy with a court date against OM, lol)

S
Her obit will say she was a wh0re. That is enough.


Do you really think you need to threaten GM about the future to keep him with you?

And if you break up do you think you need revenge? The poor guy is a stranger's scowl away from a straitjacket as we speak...

Well, I hope he got out and back home today. Give us an update when you can.

Thanks Mike,

It is good to know from one more person that is does get easier. Seems to me I just need to grab onto that and trust, hard as that is. Yesterday was OK. We will see about today as it goes along.

That is terrible about your tongue. Egads that must have hurt like crazy. You did a great interpretation of how you must have sounded for quite some time lol. I hope that grand mal was a one time thing and all is under control now.

Yes there are a lot of different boundaries. In many ways I feel like a fool still working on this after everything that has come out but that feeling is only what my brain is telling me. My heart says that under all of this is the guy I love. I know him better than anyone in the world yet I don't know him at all. None of this surprises me though, the longer I go and think about it I could see tiny glimpses of this all along but was never able to put it together. I am not stupid, he is just very smart and had the means to do it and the pathology to be able to hide it and live with it. Now that I am aware of it I can protect myself as we try to work this out until the day he steps out of the program. Then the rethinking will not take long.

I also like the way you put this, "It is about how happy that person can make you in the future." Truly. Together we make a whole even though we each could be that by ourselves. It is just time he learn that and decide if he wants that. I know my answer.

Of course you are right, I do not need to get back at her. I just need to let it go. I have checked him in every manner I can and he is clean. I can't watch him any more than I have and do. I have the polygraph to go through with him but the threat of it has really blown open the doors already so doing it should end many of my remaining fears. He is not seeing or talking to her, there is no way he could be.

Well, again you are right. I was threatening him and there is no need for that and it is certainly not the right thing to do. The context was not presented so it was not completely as it seemed. He made another comment about himself stating something like if we got divorced at least he was able to work on himself so he could have a decent relationship with someone else. WTF? He ruined my life so he could learn to be a good husband to someone else? I understand my mistake here. I also know that if he does not start putting me in his healing equation then he has learned nothing and we will not matter, only he will matter as it has always been.

But you were right and I appreciate your calm assessment of it all.

Have a good day! I hope things are going smoothly for you and I hope somehow that date you have with the OM gets resolved out of court.

Hi believer and thanks for thinking about us.

Yesterday was wobbly at times but he seems a bit better, more able to think but very foggy from the new meds. We will have to see if that improves or if he needs another.

This morning I am taking him to church. He has never wanted to go but is now looking for that higher power that he feels he needs. I do my spiritual work outside on my farm or inside a sauna. My church experiences have never really been what I needed to reach God but if he wants this and needs this I am there. I have a church to take him to where I know many in the congregation and he knows a few. He should feel comfortable there.

Thank you for asking .

Looking back if I could change one thing, it would be not reacting to the highs and lows, kiss or kill I called it, the first few months (and boy did I react). Each party needs consistent behavior to have hope of reconciliation -- nobody wants to live with a manic depressive the rest of their life.

When I was "dark" (was our term, angry and volatile) I would go for a ride and blast Zeppelin. WW would notice and offer SF.

When I was sad and mopey I'd go for a ride and blast Zeppelin. WW would notice and offer SF.

hmmm....in retrospect it wasn't a particularly nuanced structure..


Hurt like double crazy, but that is a whole nother story. I went into status epilepticus, near death, coma, woke up two days later in the hospital. While I was out they did a spinal tap, CAT scan, MRI, blood work, everything.

Didn't find anything, and it hasn't reoccurred. they say it happens to some people <shrug> I've been on anti-seizure drugs for three years, AND...they MIRACULOUSLY removed 100 percent of my chronic back pain, which is an occasional side effect of that drug.


Write down everytime you change your mind in the next six months.


Her dream is to stay in your life and his mind. Don't help her be relevant.

(again, this is from a guy who harrassed the OM to the point where he is dragging me into court next week, so what do I knbow....lol...)


Make it a polygraph every 90 days. You don't want GM to think this is a "one and done". "Trust, but verify" (Reagan, I believe)


I said that and was wrong. My WW called OM three times after D-day, then he called and then they met. I slacked off on NC, let her keep her cell phone, there it went.

I would have bet my eyes I'd scared them off with my freak out on d-day, but....there are strong emotions there.

You have to help him be strong through stringent NC protocols.


That is a statement that is woven through a lot of counseling programs in order to bring reluctant participants to Jesus. He may just be parroting something they told him in the hatch.

Or, it could be a return of his manipulation.

He needs to be more committed than that, or at least fake it in conversation with you :-)

Call him out on it.

dontcha hate it when they drop off? :-)

You talkin to ME?

Hi Mike!

I have been hanging with GM since he is home, working the program, reading the book SAA (great book by the way) and trying to stay awake since they added to my anti D. Both of us are quite blunted so we are getting along really well.

GM has his first appointment with Dr. Harley tomorrow. He has been very kind to me, remorseful until today when neither of us really gave a s*** because we are just happy to have made it through the day without falling asleep. Darn drugs. At least no rollercoaster right now, I did need a break from that.

He has posted in GQ.

You two doing OK? Is your court date this week? Any chance that will not get that far? Good luck and once again, thank you. You have been a rock for me and a godsend for GM.

Hi sss,

Glad to hear that you and GM are getting by as best you can under the circumstances. I too had to deal with a suicidal H. Those days were the lowest of the low. It was plain scary but it does get better.

Thank you so much black_raven. It was very scary to see him come apart like that. Nothing is worse than watching someone you love lose touch with everything and fall apart. I felt pretty good once we got him admitted, at least I knew he could not go anywhere or hurt himself.

We are getting by pretty well right now but then that old rollercoaster will start up that big track again. I am just trying to learn as much as I can so I will be better equipped to handle it this time.

I hope your H did well after he came through it and that you did as well.