He just doesn't realize his hunny-do list is way past its expiration date.

I'm just catching up from WH's visit on Friday, when he wouldn't leave. I think that, given the circumstances, you did a GREAT job. He heard the same thing over and over; you were a broken record. While I understand what the other poster said about you repeating yourself three times and he's not "getting it" so you need to change your tactic... the way I see it is it's not like you have been contacting him different times and days via different methods and repeating the same story. I don't think your repetition falls into the category of "it didn't work before, why are you still trying it?" but rather into the category of NOT rewarding him for breaking Plan B. Broken record. Same old message. Nothing else to see here, citizen... move along.

So I think you handled it superbly.

Schoolbus' input is wonderful, as always; my big question to her is how the heck are you supposed to talk to WH about those things when you're in Plan B? Or is this supposed to wait until recovery begins?


Oh, me! me! Pick me!! I know what he's saying!!!
He's afraid that you don't really want him back. How could you? He doesn't feel lovable, ergo he doesn't believe you could still love him. You say you truly want him back (under certain conditions) but he just can't swallow that, he loathes himself so much right now. How COULD you love him? So the only reason you could possibly want him back is because you don't want the stigma of a divorce. You don't want the stigma of your children being from a broken home. You will take him back to preserve the "happy family, happy marriage, happy happy" image. He just can't fathom anything else right now.

He came over and stayed FOR-EBBUH on Friday because there was a chink in your Plan B armor. He is hoping your resolve is failing. He's hoping you'll "forgive and forget".

He texted you about DS10's bike for the same reason: he's wanting back into your life and he's working hard to get there. He just wants to come home and forget about all this mess. He doesn't want to humble himself by admitting he was wrong, and he doesn't want to meet the conditions of the Plan B letter. He wants back, but he wants to come back HIS way, without a lot of effort and drama.

I agree here. I'm no expert, but I've had 5 false recoveries this year alone and he's now D-ing me.

My WH wanted to do the least bit to come back and, at the beginning, I just let him return. But I was a wreck at that time and both of us just wanted to sweep it under the rug. And each return usually began with WH calling me saying "we need to talk," a meeting where I felt like we were negotiating his return (yeah -- I should have stuck with "no negotiating with terrorist OR waywards"), SF, then a plan/timeline.

As time progressed, I added more stipulations (signed agreements, meeting with MC and priest, etc.). But the one thing he couldn't do is maintain N/C. OW just would not go away.
I know OW in my sitch is jealous, pushy, a D veteran (2) and willing to do anything to win the prize.

I wonder if keeping him away during this Plan B may have led to the start of D. But, then again, after of year of back and forth without commitment, I needed to fully embrace Plan B if I were ever to move forward -- whether recovery or D. Hopefully, the start of Plan D isn't necessary the end of M.

I agree she did great, especially for having no warning this would happen, and no time to plan.

However, since there is a high likelihood of this happening again, Pep and Schoolbus are priming her pump so she can not only hold up her end of PB, but perhaps change the dynamic when he's trying to break through...come back his way.

Yeah need more help on "how to" do that. But I highly doubt after being turned down to spend the night that he is going to try and ask again. I'm sure he would feel like an idiot, plus the visit won't happen like that again as DS10 has been fully warned.

Pep mentioned something about changing of strategy, ur ya dun thinkin bout that yet? So tell me what is it mah dear?

I agree that there is a high likelihood of this happening again. He's broken through her Plan B a couple of times and he tried to weasel in again with the text about the bike. He's gotten rewarded for breaking Plan B and you betcha he's needing his T2L fix so he's going to be devious and persistent.

I agree too that the dynamics probably need to change but danged if I can figure out how to do this w/o breaking Plan B.

Your best guess -

How much does WH worry he's losing you for real?

IDK. I don't even think he thinks about it truly. He thinks only of himself. In his eyes, he views me as an enemy to..."doing what he wants" or an enemy to "not answering to anyone". I don't know if he thinks about losing me.

My guess is he may think he can do this forever or that because I reaffirmed my desire for marriage but said I can't make you love me or want the marriage he feels powerful over his enemy..me.

So truly IDK. I don't know that he will try to contact again. I doubt it, he doesn't like rejection and may not want to risk it again.

I am unsure how to implement SB's recommendations from that perspective. I need like a dialog example or something, but then I am in PB so IDK IDK IDK...And why do ya ask?

You really had no control over your WH --bust down the door to ask you an "important question" tatic. You did well.

Do you think he sees this going on forever? I mean you know him the best. You have given him his options-- it is natural to wonder "well, what next?"

You have mentioned the one year mark before. What does that mean to you?

With you going back into a dark plan b- he will get thie picture that you have really changed. Expect some other trick soon, I imagine.

Nothing else to write except I admire you ability to stay positive.

Pep, I don't think T2L can answer this question. He is hurting her so badly she cannot imagine that he might be laying in his bed awake all night wrestling with God about being a prodigal. She can't imagine that he might be missing her.

T2L, is my memory correct in thinking that neither you nor T2L has filed anything legally? What has he said/done about divorce?

He is dead set against D, to avoid the "financial devastation".
:RollieEyes:

decoy reason yes!

Hmmm....... I *really* like where you're going with this, Pep.

I kinda feel like what Schoolbus said about the Stalemate, but I could be wrong. I think he could go on like this forever. He is stubborn, its a good and a bad thing. Has anyone here on MB been in a stalemate and what was the result?

He told DD17 during there lunch last week(you can read the entire convo on her thread, I'll try to bump it today) that he made a dumb mistake he is embarrassed. He told her that when we communicated(Plan a) that he had so much hope and was really happy because he was around all of us and that he was close to coming home(but that's hearsay, it could have gone on like that for a while). DD17 said so you thought about coming home, and he responds yes, but then when I spoke to him that night I took the call he mentioned NOTHING he had said to her.

During Plan A I think he may have wanted come home but he kept saying time needs to take its place. I think he probably can't figure out how to break from her or is torn between us. He said I cannot hurt anyone else and I replied well the kids and I are hurting, he said I know.

No he has not filed nor have I. He said during Plan A that he heard on a radio station that if you cannot get along try your best to avoid filing for divorce as it will be financial destruction. I replied good thing I'm not in it for the money and grinned. I feel he knows I will drag it on, try to get the courts to put some of my fees on him since I have been a stay at home wife for 19 years. So I feel he doesn't want to file because financially it will destroy him and not because he doesn't want to part with me. Hes all about trying to keep his credit good and trying to get debt free.

Pre-SAA, during one of our few conversations I told him that i didn't deserve to be alone and sit her and wait around and he said if you need to get a divorce because you can't date unless you do it right then go ahead, file if you need to.

So yes he, for the most part, doesn't want a divorce for financial reasons, but he has also suggested it and if sent to him would probably lose it all because of stubbornness.

Although there are other ways of looking like you may be losing your wife and can be mentioned somehow.... Wanna See? I have been told by numerous men, even a FWS that he would snap out of it if he thought......But is that an LB? Now I don't mean actually doing that just appearing that way.

Nutting new. Still in PB Anyways, He forgot to call DS10 for the 2nd day in a row. You'd think if your son didn't talk to you for 3 weeks and now is visiting with you, you would try a bit harder. When I tucked DS10 in he said mom how come dad hasn't called me in 2 days and I say honey IDK. I say you can ask but you may hear an excuse. He says well doesn't he know that I am not mad anymore and I say yes honey I am sorry he didn't call but I am not making excuses for him.

Anyways, his visiting days are Mon, Thurs and rotating Sat & Sundays. So he texts DD17 tonight, after 10PM, and he says I forgot to call Gabe again is he still awake. Is he crazy its 10 PM!!!! HE said he was in the area and he wanted to come visit so DD17 told me the convo. I was unsure which way to go with the response, I could have said no its not his day but I told her to say IKD Dad, DS10 has school in the morning and then mom is signing him up for a home school swimming class on Tuesdays and Thursdays from 11-12. He said well I'll call you when I'm in the area, maybe I can come say hello.

I didn't say no for this reason. I know there are several in Plan B right now with small children who still have to see their spouses but keep it brief. My thoughts were maybe an occasional run in that is very brief but still PB would be good so he doesn't become indifferent, outta sight outta mind kinda IDK. Obviously it would not be a PA as it's just a Plan B but with dealing with kids. Correct me if I am wrong or y'all think it would damage my PB. What do you think.

I like the way Pep was kinda thinking. Maybe he does need a decoy wake up call of some kind.....

I see your reasoning, but I am very concerned that this is just him pushing your boundaries to see what he can get away with. What next?

You sound like a really sincere person, T2L.

Are you thinking that if you "dated" or appeared to be communicating with another man -- it would change the way your H thinks about the M?

I have no advice on that one, but could you spend time with someone, and not have an emotional or ethical conflict?
I mean, I would not- as long as the guy friend understands whats up.

I know quite a few MB'ers think there can be NO friends of the opposite sex (one bitten, twice shy) But I am one of the few who think it (male friends) can happen.

Just like the difference between having a drink and getting drink
Placing a bet- and/or losing your paycheck.

If you have the former- don't drink at all.
If you have the latter- stay away from the casino.
and
--if you have a "problem" with opposite sex friends- do not have any.

just my humble.

Girl, you live close to Hollywood, you can go hire one of those cute male models (any hasbeen calvin klien underwear model!),
When H comes for one of his visits, you and anyone cute can be taking walk down the street strolling with a cup of latte.

Serious impact. It will be worth every penny. One picture is worth a thousand words.

A decoy does not necessarily mean a man.

sheesh!