Personally, I like it ... its good to see a BH finally stand up for themselves and refuse to accept their WW's abuse.

Zen, I would let her know that you are not stopping her from staying home and being with her kids. How does she get time with her kids? She stays home! REAL EASY!

Good job on standing up for your marriage and your kids by not cooperating with her crazy separation scheme!

HOLY SH*T.

Well, that didn't go as I expected. Here's the very condensed version of the half hour conversation:

Wife calls me and starts with, "you can't make me leave my own house, you can't control custody of the children!"

I say, "I can't control you, but I'm asking you to stop sleeping with another man while you live in the house your husband built for you, with your children present. It's atrociously disrespectful and abusive and wrong by ANYONE'S standards. If you want to get out of a marriage, you express your problems, you work on them, if that doesn't work, you divorce."

She says voice softening more and more, "I'm not saying it isn't horrible."

I say "I contacted the other guy - he's completely irrelevant to me because I am by far the more powerful caveman and I want him to know I won't back down." She says, "I bet that was fun..." I say, "It was!"

I say, "I'm not afraid of losing you. You're already lost. If this goes anywhere, it's going to be new territory."

She says, "I still want all the same things I've always wanted - family, etc." (She's been living the dive-bar lifestyle a lot during the affair - early midlife crisis kinda stuff)

I say, "I still love everything about you, but I don't even know who you are right now."

Turns into small talk, how did this happen, boy what a big mess...

I bring up that I have talked to all of her friends about this - told them my side. This is the part I was expecting the she would explode about, but she accepted it.

She said thank you for talking to me. I said , "yep" she said, don't be cold, I said I would like nothing more than to hold you in my arms right now, but until this other person is out of our lives, all of this is irrelevant. She said, "you're right".

Bye bye.

So there you go, when your worst fear is realized and you just accept it, it's not so scary anymore. I'm sure this will be up and down again several times, but seems like some success for my Steve McQueen/Gandhi approach. Thank you everybody!!!

Oh, and I sent that letter to the dude, a little tougher version and he removed his Facebook page today. Aaaaah, the internet.

Wow, good job.

Now you can stand by your guns, show her that you will fight for your family, and see what she does next.

And the bar life part really has to go.

Oh yes, I've established a better position, but the battle has barely begun. Still, I'm amazed she didn;t just freak out. I honestly thought I'd be seeing Captain Howdy from 'The Exercist'.

We aren't even in reconciliatory mode yet. We've had 4 false starts so far so I don't put much credence in any of them until the Dude is gone. but yes, the bar life is part of what got us here. There's got to be a whole new 'us' if this doesn't go down the tube.

This whole part I can relate too!! Keep your anger in check. Think about a NC letter. Look around here for some examples.

I have a 6 page letter from my WW spilling everything.....yet we are in plan D.

Good job Zen -

Its an Alpha male thing. Women do not like wimps for husbands and yet we become betasise in time as they train us. One of life's mysteries - joke.

Plan A is about improving yourself and getting back to what you were at the beginning the relationship. At the same time - you make the A partners uncomfortable.

The A will not be as exciting now since you have laid out your boundaries with both parties. You will NOT go quietly into the night and let Dude be your replacement.

Even thought the war had been going on - you have now at least joined the battle.

hmmmm another serf turned into KNIGHT by standing up for his marriage and his family!!

Please go get the movie Fireproof!

Yeah, maybe I'll actually sleep tonight. I've lost 35 lbs in about a month and a half. Feels good!

there you go! Now remember this feeling and remember it when times get tough again.

Oh I know. I'm starting to be grateful for the times when I just get rid of the churning anxiety in my belly. I recognize that it's temporary, but it's a welcome respite.

She's meeting with a good friend who I think will give her some straight talk tonight. Exposure working!

Ugh, the roller coaster. Mostly chit chat from the WW today. Anxiety slowly creeping back. The only relief was meeting some friends for lunch.

Her mom came over to visit the kids today and we talked for awhile. She helped me see some of WW's disallusionment. Good to get her perspective because she had an emotional affair in her marriage.

Really struggling with anger and betrayal tonight. Feeling incredibly alone trying to keep it together with a potty training 3 year old and a 4 year old. I broke down crying in front of them for the first time and the 3 year old laughed! The 4 year old kept telling me to stop and started crying. Gotta keep it together in front of the kids.

OK, I will be talking to my wife tomorrow afternoon, and I'm trying to figure out the next move. The goal is to undermine the affair, right? The Alpha male technique really seems to work so I think I'm going to keep going with that. I'm really going to press her for a meeting with the Dude. I would like to see her reaction. I will reinforce that she needs to go elsewhere to have her new life. Any other suggestions? I'll make sure to turn up the good feelings, but with extreme confidence.

Oh! Here's an idea! I tell her that I would very much like to meet the Dude. "If he's going to be in our children's lives, I would like to have a long conversation with him. OK Dude, let's say my son has explosive diarrhea for 4 nights in a row and he keeps messing the bed. Are you going to help WW clean that up in the middle of the night? All this commotion has woken our daughter and she insists on sleeping in your bed, BEFORE you have a chance to DO IT? And she keeps doing this night after night because she's acting out because her parents have split..."

This says, I'm not afraid of his weasily a*s, AND I've accepted that our relationship is done. The ol' 'I can live without her' attitude. I'm finding that this attitude gains respect from her. Frankly, I'm getting to the point where I don't mind using that tactic because I'm fearing less and less the temporary nature of our ups and downs. Instilling enough alpha male respect and good feelings will hopefully increase the ups.

Then I may try to reinforce that some of my understanding of the disillusionment she feels, and the need to feel justified. I think this is key to healing because she's only getting validation from the Dude right now, and it takes some of that power away from him.

I'm just brainstorming late at night, so some of this might sound whacky, but I feel like I need to lower his potency by "above the belt" means.

If my info is correct from those who know him, he's already afraid of me, and quite weasily. I KNOW my wife does not find these attributes appealing in a man. I've always been a bit too laid back and I think she wishes I had more fire in my belly. Well I do now.

""Oh! Here's an idea! I tell her that I would very much like to meet the Dude. "If he's going to be in our children's lives, I would like to have a long conversation with him. OK Dude, let's say my son has explosive diarrhea for 4 nights in a row and he keeps messing the bed. Are you going to help WW clean that up in the middle of the night? All this commotion has woken our daughter and she insists on sleeping in your bed, BEFORE you have a chance to DO IT? And she keeps doing this night after night because she's acting out because her parents have split...""

I like this. Do it (ben stiller). Don't tell WW what your going to say in advance.

Now that you know some of why your wife was "disillusioned", you can work on that.

Zen, my suggestion would be not tell her you are paying him a visit so you will have the element of surprise. That will give you an advantage to catch him off guard. FOREWARNED is FOREARMED.

Secondly, I would strike this kind of language from your vocabulary now:


Its fine to convey that you can live without her, but you don't want to say that you have accepted your relationship is done. THAT IS HANDING VICTORY TO YOUR ENEMY! That will only give him the green light.

What he needs to understand is that you ARE NOT DONE. And that you will fight for your marriage. Tell him HELL IS COMING. Tell him you will drag his [censored] into court to testify under oath about his affair with your wife; that you will get him legally banned from ever being around your children. Tell him there is no future for him because he will be eternally hated by your children and your inlaws for breaking up their family. He needs to understand that you ARE NOT GOING TO LIE DOWN FOR HIM.

Which are you going to be more scared of if you are him: a kid's diarreaha or getting dragged into court for endless court proceedings to testify under oath about your sleazy behavior with a married woman?

Don't tell him that he has WON, Zen. Tell him HELL IS COMING.

Have you exposed to his parents? This is an excellent exposure opportunity that ruins the future prospects of the affair.

I just wanting to pop in and say that I really like where your head is at in this post. This attitude will serve you well in the troubled times to come. Alpha Male BH's do well in these terrible situations.

Thanks everyone. Mel, I won't say this, I will just express it by not walking on eggshells any longer.

I say things to her like, "If you want to have your other life, then you cannot do it in this house. Go have your new life. If you want to work on us, I'm willing"

How does taping family pictures on his door sound? I'll really press for the meeting as well.

-Steve McGandhi (Steve McQueen/Gandhi)