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 Originally Posted By: Seabird
Not even when you graduated from law school? I'm just wondering if it's been so long since you've tasted "chocolate", you forgot how good it could be.


Maybe. Hard to remember. I was disappointed at the time that I did not get elected to be a class representative. My Mom had broken her leg a few days before graduation. And I had the bar exam looming over me. I don't remember being elated. Maybe it is so long since I felt happy that I can't remember what it felt like.

It felt like a "win" when we got married. That feeling lasted literally until about midnight of our wedding day when Mrs. Hold got mad at me for going downstairs to see if there was a bottle of champagne available. I returned to find her in the hallway slumped on the floor crying that I had abandoned her. You know how that story ends.

I was pleased to make partner at my old firm. But we had started MC a few months earlier. Things were really bad with Mrs. Hold. So while I was pleased to make partner. It ended up being a pay cut for the first year. And my life was not happy at the time. I don't remember feeling victorious. Plus it was tainted by the reality that I had been partner with the guy in Florida who kicked me out 6 months later (the week before S14 was born) because he saw how much money we were making and he didn't want to share any of it with me. So partnership didn't feel "real". It always felt like something that could be taken away at a moment's notice.

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What about when you started running? No sense of accomplishment? No feelings of, "Wow! I never thought I could do -that-!"?


Definitely not. In fact, that is exactly what I was hoping running would feel like: a sense of accomplishment. But coming in so far toward the back. Behind EVERYONE. Even the people decades older than me. And being the only person in my training group who did not reach my fundraising goal. No, I felt no sense of accomplishment. I finished the race in pain and felt like a failure. The process felt like more confirmation that I am a loser who will never accomplish anything.

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Understood on the name. It's not the relationship connotation. Those other two terms just sound silly to my ear.


Me too. Esp the hoti. But hold fits. I am holding on tight to all my fear, frustration and resentment.


When you can see it coming, duck!
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If you were a horse, I'd have to shoot you.

Geez!

So, um... What are you afraid of, really? If you walk out I mean. That Mrs. Hold would... What? Clean you out financially? She's already BTDT. Take you away from your kids? She can't you know. You have rights as a father. They're getting older and spending less time at the house anyway.

I don't get it.

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You are a good guy, Hold. You've done all of the "right" things, you're a decent family man who loves his kids (great kids, too!), and you've asked for so little out of life. You go to work every day, you give everything you have to your family, your patience with Mrs. Hold is legendary.

I've only heard you yearn for one thing over all of these years, and that's a little attention. You shouldn't have to beg for that, not a man who gives as much as you do.

I tell you, Hold--now this wife of yours has taken your clean bill of health, and that is just amazingly f'ed up (pardon my lack of ability to be more delicate here.) I can see it now, she's baiting you with your monthly sex, but the poor dear feels dirty when you protect yourself with a condom.

I've been thinking about this and you all evening since you wrote that. I've discussed it with L, the light of my life. I can't believe how much damage your wife has done to a good, loyal man. F your depression, F your "dark underside", F all of the bull she's made you feel. You told the truth, and contnue to do so. She has not and does not.

She has taken just about everything you can take from a guy.
I know you forgive her, but that is testament to your big heart.
What she has done to you over the years is egregious, loathesome, and unforgivable. SHE is the bad guy here. I'll never see it any other way, my friend.

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Hold, your wife aside, the only person I've ever met more determined to be sad is my brother. He found reasons to be miserable on his wedding day.

This is all in your hands. You've done half-hearted attempts at therapy, half-hearted attempts at getting in shape, doing a fundraiser, fixing your marriage, being a good role model for your kids. Every situation you describe was destroyed by YOUR decision to be miserable, not your wife's, not your job's, YOURS.

Every time, YOU stop yourself. Do you want your kids to be like that? They will, if you don't get off your butt and start making changes. If you won't do it for yourself, sacrifice for your kids.

Go back to the doctor, ask him for mood-altering drugs, sign up for a year-long intensive therapy session, pay for a trainer who won't let go of you, make a conscious goal to save your kids from your fate.

Did you ever hear this story:

Happiness is a Choice

Michael is the kind of guy you love to hate. He is always in a good mood and always has something positive to say. When someone would ask him how he was doing, he would reply, "If I were any better, I would be twins!"

He was a natural motivator. If an employee was having a bad day, Michael was there telling the employee how to look on the positive side of the situation.

Seeing this style really made me curious, so one day I went up to Michael and asked him, "I don't get it! You can't be a positive person all of the time. How do you do it?"

Michael replied, "Each morning I wake up and say to myself, 'Mike, you have two choices today. You can choose to be in a good mood or you can choose to be in a bad mood.' I choose to be in a good mood.

"Each time something bad happens, I can choose to be a victim or I can choose to learn from it. I choose to learn from it.

"Every time someone comes to me complaining, I can choose to accept their complaining or I can point out the positive side of life. I choose the positive side of life."

"Yeah, right, it isn't that easy," I protested.

"Yes, it is," Michael said. "Life is all about choices. When you cut away all the junk, every situation is a choice. You choose how you react to situations. You choose how people will affect your mood. You choose to be in a good mood or bad mood.

"The bottom line is: It's your choice how you live life."

I reflected on what Michael said. Soon thereafter, I left the tower industry to start my own business. We lost touch, but I often thought about him when I made a choice about life instead of reacting to it.

Several years later, I heard that Michael was involved in a serious accident, falling some 60 feet from a communications tower. After 18 hours of surgery and weeks of intensive care, Michael was released from the hospital with rods placed in his back.

I saw Michael about six months after the accident. When I asked him how he was, he replied, "If I were any better, I'd be twins. Wanna see my scars?"

I declined to see his wounds, but did ask him what had gone through his mind as the accident took place.

"The first thing that went through my mind was the well being of my soon-to-be-born daughter," Michael replied. "Then, as I lay on the ground, I remembered that I had two choices: I could choose to live or I could choose to die. I chose to live."

"Weren't you scared? Did you lose consciousness?" I asked.

Michael continued, "...the paramedics were great. They kept telling me I was going to be fine.

"But when they wheeled me into the ER and I saw the expressions on the faces of the doctors and nurses, I got really scared. In their eyes, I read, 'he's a dead man.' I knew I needed to take action."

"What did you do?" I asked.

"Well, there was a big burly nurse shouting questions at me," said Michael. "She asked if I was allergic to anything. 'Yes,' I replied. The doctors and nurses stopped working as they waited for my reply. I took a deep breath and yelled, 'Gravity.' Over their laughter, I told them, 'I am choosing to live. Operate on me as if I am alive, not dead.'"

Michael lived, thanks to the skill of his doctors, but also because of his amazing attitude. I learned from him that every day we have the choice to live fully. Attitude, after all, is everything.

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 Originally Posted By: catperson
Hold, your wife aside, the only person I've ever met more determined to be sad is my brother. He found reasons to be miserable on his wedding day.


Hey Sis, is that you? I was very sad most of my wedding day. I slept at my parents' house. Late morning my mom and sister left to spend the day with all the ladies getting their hair and nails done, makeup, etc. My dad left too, I think to play golf with his buddies. My guy friends were staying at the hotel where the wedding reception was. I called a couple of them. No answers. So I spent the day alone. I remember feeling very lonely.

Yes, I know that was my choice. I could have made plans with my friends. I could have driven to the hotel and looked for them. Or I could have chosen to be thrilled that it was my wedding day. So yes, I guess I chose to feel sad and lonely.

Thanks for the slap. You are right. I should do something. I will e-mail my buddy who was going to get me a second opinion about my personality disorder. But I doubt it will make any difference. Neither will mood altering drugs. They are like candy for me - they make no difference. I am simply too comfortable and get too much of a payoff from choosing to be miserable for talk therapy or drugs to have any impact.

I am going to push again for ECT. Sooner or later I will find someone to shock me.


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Catperson,
That may be so, but he's got one hell of a millstone around his neck with Mrs. Hold. His decision to marry her has been a bane on his existence ever since. Luckily he has his two kids to offset that.

I would be depressed, too. It's more situational than chemical.

Hold's wife is a toxic person. She gives of herself to anyone but her husband, from whom she wrangled and extorted every last cent and shred of self esteem.

To put the icing on the cake, she has now given him her gift of disease from all the wild years of [censored] and sucking lowlifes in bulk numbers. Of course, that's all she's given him, because she certainly doesn't provide Hold the benefit of wild sex.

F her weight loss, F her self esteem, F her comfort loving fat a$$, F her, period. She has taken a good man down.

Give the guy a little room to feel miserable. It's not exactly the Sound of Music over there.

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 Quote:
I am simply too comfortable and get too much of a payoff from choosing to be miserable for talk therapy or drugs to have any impact.
Even if it means your kids will grow up just like you? Or worse, just like your wife? Since they don't have a single decent role model in their house to learn to live like?

I repeat. Quit being selfish. Quit enjoying your martyrdom. Quit ruining your kids' lives.

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 Originally Posted By: EasyE
Catperson,
That may be so, but he's got one hell of a millstone around his neck with Mrs. Hold. His decision to marry her has been a bane on his existence ever since. Luckily he has his two kids to offset that.

I would be depressed, too. It's more situational than chemical.

Hold's wife is a toxic person. She gives of herself to anyone but her husband, from whom she wrangled and extorted every last cent and shred of self esteem.

To put the icing on the cake, she has now given him her gift of disease from all the wild years of [censored] and sucking lowlifes in bulk numbers. Of course, that's all she's given him, because she certainly doesn't provide Hold the benefit of wild sex.

F her weight loss, F her self esteem, F her comfort loving fat a$$, F her, period. She has taken a good man down.

Give the guy a little room to feel miserable. It's not exactly the Sound of Music over there.
Easy, I call BS. I've been talking to Hold for 1 1/2 years and he has changed absolutely nothing. He keeps popping up once every 3 months or so to say he's done this or that, and then he lets it all fade back into the woodwork so he can keep getting his payoff for being a sadsack. We have all been helpful, generous, concerned, and NOTHING matters to him. Just like my brother, he feeds off of being miserable. His wife treating him like crap is just more gravy.

He CHOOSES not to try. I call BS.

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Hold,
Get yourself out of the house. Find a buddy to go and do some skiing for a few days, or to just camp out in the mountains.

If Mrs Hold resists, tell her to shut up.

Take some guy time, get out in the elements, and clear your head.

Use your god given right to find a little freedom.

If it were me I'd take way more than a few days.

If I were closer I'd go with you myself.

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 Originally Posted By: EasyE
Get yourself out of the house. Find a buddy to go and do some skiing for a few days, or to just camp out in the mountains.


Easy, take it easy. Cat is right. It is not Mrs. Hold. It is me. My choices. I was like this before I met Mrs. Hold. Taking a vacation from her won't change a thing. I have gone camping with my college buddy several times. Went to my reunion with another buddy. She and the kids have gone away and left me home alone. I went to Switzerland 3 times by myself. She is not the problem. I am.

 Originally Posted By: catperson
Even if it means your kids will grow up just like you?


Yes.

Now you see why I keep pushing for ECT or TMS. I am addicted to these choices. I am never going to voluntarily change. I don't understand why I can't convince any of the doctors to authorize more drastic treatment. I'm obviously not advocating very well on my own behalf.


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Sure Hold, you bet.

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You dont need ECT.

You need DTB. (Divorce That B****)

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And she gave you more than a disease, she IS A DISEASE.

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Hold,

I don't remember if you read "Healing The Shame That Binds Us" by John Bradshaw or not.

Or if you went to Alanon meetings.

LA

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Which came first?, your low self esteem, or your ruining of your life by marrying the MRS.

But whichever came first, BOTH have to be resolved so you can have a good "rest of your life".

Get to it!



I think that IF YOU START TO IMPROVE YOUR SELF ESTEEM~ YOU WILL THEN HAVE THE STRENGTH TO DIVORCE HER......

OR: IF YOU DIVORCE HER, YOU WILL THEN HAVE THE STRENGTH TO IMPROVE YOUR SELF ESTEEM.

Last edited by Stellakat; 02/06/09 03:38 PM.
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Not sure if I have that book. I have read so many self-help books over the years. I might have gotten it around the same time I got "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and "When I Say No I Feel Guilty". And I got so excited by NMMNG that I might have forgotten to read HTSTBU. I have seen many recomendations for it over the years. I'll check downstairs and order it if I don't have it.

Never been to Alanon. Have been to a couple of CODA meetings. Not sure why you think I need Alanon. Are you suggesting that Mrs. Hold's history leads her to behave like an addict? I feel I am the one behaving like an addict here - I am addicted to MB and to navel gazing and the drama and the self pity. On the other hand, maybe I should go back to CODA. Today is D12's birthday, so I can't go tonight. But I think I can go next Friday. Friday the 13th. What an auspicious day to get back on the wagon!


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Sounds like a perfect date for Mr. Hold's MO.

\:D

Do you think Alanon isn't for addicts, too?

Would you consider that Alanon is for anyone who's been affected by alcohol in their personal history? As they say...that could be a great-grandfather/mother/cousin/sibling/child/spouse...

Or great-great.

Or not so great.

\:\)

Thank you for checking it out. I truly believe when the pain of not changing outweighs the pain of changing, you will change your choices. You'll find that false payoff and in doing so, you'll see it shrivel up in shame and disappear.

And you'll miss it, a little.

Consider that no addict marries a non-addict.

I want to make you go "hmmmmm". \:D

LA

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No addict marries a non-addict. Hmmmmm.


When you can see it coming, duck!
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Maybe the doctors think that it won't do any good, that even after drastic "re-booting" of your brain, you will still be yourself. Your basic mindset has not changed in many years.

The question is, what will change it?

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http://www.oshmanlaw.com/personal_injury/sexually-transmitted-diseases.html

People sue every day for others giving them herpes. You should sue the pants off her. Look at the damages this STD does to people, physically and mentally.

Sue her for all she is worth! (Oh I forgot,, she is not worth much)

Sue her for all her future earnings....or something...

Just sue her!!!!

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