Hmmmm. This makes no sense then. If she rails against the drama in her life since her teens then why is she doing things now to cause even MORE drama in her life? Some people are like that though. They're never happy with the humdrum of real life. There has to be SOMETHING going on all the time.

Did she ever get any counseling for her FOO issues?

I cant remember what FOO means. We have been to counseling together in the past and whenever the counseler brings up HER past..she pretty much stops going. She has commented that she does not want to keep reliving her childhood over and over. When she started going back to IC last year teh IC she picked was one we had seen together a few years ago. He runs a center that has the word "christian" in the title......who knows what he and WW actually talk about!!

WW and had exchanged a few emails today. They started like this from her.

her.. Just wondering if you are going to cash that check I gave you last month?

me....Wasn't tops on my list of concerns. I was gonna just deposit it not cash it. By some of your comments last night do you want me to hold off?

her...As I recall, we hardly spoke last night and when we did it was about Sami’s attitude. Didn’t recall making any financial comments last night. Was just going to tell you that I will pay the B of A credit card and just cash the check on Friday.

me...All CC bills are paid this month. Last night I asked if you had change for my $20 for the girls allowance. You said you had no money. This is the second time you asked about that check....I apologize if took these comments out of context.

If you are fine on money...again don't take this the wrong way....when will you have janruarys check?


her....B of A’s payment (not the LATE one that you just paid) is due the 17th. I meant that I didn’t have cash since I generally don’t have any as I use my debit card. Deposit the check at your convenience.

me...... When I go back and read what you type....you seem so angry and defensive. Just something I notice.

I have noticed over the last week or so that you have been more withdrawn around home. You are probably saying to your self "Carp....why do you care?". I do care WW....

I know email can be "cold" and "impersonal".....face to face conversations are always best when we want people to understand us better. I am a good listener...you know this.

If you don't want to communicate at all....either verbally or written.....I will respect your wish.
Please let me know either way.


her....Your concern for my well being is always appreciated and noted. Thank you.



It is necessary for us to communicate for the care and well being of our children as well as the daily routines of the household as long as we continue to cohabitate. While that communication is necessary, the need to be “chummy” with each other is not. We can get the points across that we need to convey, and move on. It is no longer necessary to make little email “quips” or share daily little diatribes with one another. As I have conveyed in the past, that could be misconstrued as wanting more from our relationship and therefore I don’t want to lead you into false hope. (“Feeding the dog”—if you will). The girls are aware of my feelings and reasons for not wanting to eat dinner with you or watch television with you and that I would never ask them to choose to not do those activities with you and that they are more than welcome to join me should they choose.



The “matter of fact way” that I communicate with you may seem cold or impersonal, but is in no way angry or defensive. That would, once again, convey a feeling that I have a reason to be angry or defensive with you as though I have done something wrong. During these next months, and even in the years after as well, I find that it will be necessary to communicate with civility and maturity but not to mottle the conversations with anything of a personal or intimate nature, would be counter productive.



I know my WW didnt write this......

It's an almost universal response for female childhood sexual abuse victims to have an extreme lack of self-worth and even to blame themselves. Basically, they destroy their own lives because they feel they don't deserve good lives. So they go out and make terrible choices (no offense carp) as far as SF and drugs and guys are concerned. I imagine PAs would be right up there with all that stuff.

The other universal response is to clam up about it and never, ever become vulnerable enough to a therapist or anyone else to get it resolved.

Of course, you could have holdingontoit's wife, who dealt with it by stopping all SF completely...

Your WW really is in her own little world, isn't she?

Strong is the fog with that one.

Unfortunately it might take the good dose of reality that comes with a D to wake her up to the damage she's causing.

Catperson

I take no offense by your commnent.

My WW has said these words to me before and after D-day....you are the best thing that has ever happened to me. These words I keep way in the back of my head.

MiM

Did you read her journal I posted on the last page?

Yup - IMO filled with self-absorption.

At least she is filled with something!! For the longest time she walked around all "entitled".

After I left last night the WW "pled" her case to the kids. I am taking my DVR to my attorneys this afternoon to see what can be done with the info

Things like....

She is not doing anything wrong

Talking about temp custody

You dad thinks this is a game

She "broke up with her BF"

She talked to them about yesterdays emails

She told them about the temp custody

The judge might make her leave

More stuff....makes me sick!!

How did your kids respond to her "pleading"? Have you had a chance to talk to them yet about that episode?

I don't know if they ever realize it. XH and I have been divorced 5 years this May. He remarried 3 weeks ago (not to OW). Our son, who was too young to even remember XH living with us, has had nightly meltdowns because he has realizd Mommy and Daddy will never live together and we will never be an intact family. Since I have custody, I am the one who sees it. I tell my XH about it and he doesn't believe me.

How did they respond..... When she skewed it enough to make me look bad they seemed to side with her.

Have I talked to them about it.....no. I listened to it in bed last night. I leave for work at 5am so no chance this morning. I don't even know how to breech the subject! WW already whines about how much I know.

Hmm... How about this:

Have a chat with the kids about what's going on at the moment, and what may happen. One of them may eventually mention that chat that WW had last night with them. They might even mention something specific that you can use.

At point, ask WW to join you, then start the discussion off with "I understand you had a conversation with our kids last night where you mentioned...".

If she starts to protest about how you could possibly know that, indicate how you know is not important, and what you want to find out is WHY she'd say the things that she said, and it might be better for the kids if their parents were not using "alone time" with the kids to tear each other down.

She'd likely be left thinking that the kids spilled the beans on her (which will make her less likely to have such secret talks with them in the future), and the kids will see how dishonest she's really being in those secret conversations.

MiM

Good thoughts.

WW sent me her "plans for the rest of the week" email.
She actually has plans with the kids!!

Tonite my kids have counseling. WW mentioned in her mail that since she had her turn with the C....which according to last nights intel the C read WW the riot act....I can have a turn. Of course a few weeks ago I spent 2 HOURS with the girls and their C....I am not as nervous as before. At least I will be armed with my info from last night.

Maybe this is Gods way of telling me NOT to confronting WW in front of the kids. They have been thru plenty....another fight with their parents is the last thing they need.

OK Carp.....i have finally read your whole stitch.
There is one major thing bothering me here that i see. I recognized the pattern because I lived it from your kids point of view.

I have never shared this with anyone at this board before.

As an adult I don't remember much about my childhood. I blocked alot of things out. From the outside view I would tell you I grew up independantly of my family. Father was a workaholic and mom was severely depressed. I was sent outside to play a lot on my own. I hung around with the 3 boys from across the street and was the neighborhood tomboy.

But we all know there is a deeper reason of why I blocked it all out. During my divorce I did alot of self reflection and dug back with my C to figure out what happened.

As a child I always feared my father. He was a force to be reconned with. My fear was so great of him I had and still partial have some anxiety issues because of it. He never molested me so please don't think that. But what he did do to all of us was verbally and mentally abuse me, my mother, and sister.

I do remember one occurance where my mother was not home and he and I began arguing and he slapped me. So hard I fell back on my bed. My C still believes this is why I still have so much anger at him. We DO NOT get along. But still there was something pushing it.

We delved further. That's when I discovered a memory I had mentally blocked. The C believes because it caused a great trauma in my life. Because I was such a tomboy my mother always pushed my dad to take me with him and involve me in what he was doing.

He was a volunteer for an organization that monitored emergency and regular communications for special events at the organizations site. A sort of dispatch center and he was the head of the committee. My father also owns his own business and a lot of his employees were also involved in the committee.

We there was this one woman who worked for my father and she had an annoying son who I hated. He was always following me around *at one time he had a crush on me*. Well one day my father took me with him to help him at the dispatch center and the lady and her son were there too. I was not told he would becoming or I would not have gone.

At one point my father with the lady standing next to him told me to take the kid with me and go explore the lake area which was down a Big hill. I whinned and cried saying I didn't want to go especially with that kid. My father in his dark low voice threatened me to go. Begrudgingly I went and took a pair of binnocculars hoping if I was looking through them he would see I was busy and I could just ignore him.

We took off down the hill to an island are where there were nesting geese. At one point he was annoying me so much i decided to block him out and play bird watcher. Looking through the binnocculars I looked up the hill and saw my father with the kids mother in a very compromising position. The memory to this day still makes me burn with anger.

I was so angry he was doing that with THAT woman. He forces her son on me to get me out of the way. When we got back i was very quiet and i back talked to my father a lot and was reprimanded harshly. I never showed an ounce of respect to that woman again. It was the beginning of the development of the rebel in me.

When I got back home I must have said something to my mother. I never heard of it or was subjected to anything after that until my father took my sister and I to a Denny's type place and explained that he and my mother were having problems.

My parents managed to work things out. My fathers entire family came down on him.

While my parents stitch ended positively many do not. CARP I am warning you now. You need to do something for your girls. Your wife is poisening them and thrusting them into an adult situation they are too young for...no way is what she telling them age appropriate and they WILL loose some of there childhood over this....Believe me I know. Your WW is willing to throw your children in front of the bus so to say to save her affair.

Protect your children now....You are the only sane parent they have left. If I was you...(and I was already) I would be fighting tooth and nail. My ex had plans while I was in the hospital on emergency to take my son to meet with OW. He had agreed with me she would not be anywhere near him unless they got married.

Wayward will lie to you to make there little happy place perfect. Don't trust a word she says. Who says when she takes the girls to the "gym" OM isn't there with here trying to create a bad with YOUR children....Do you want your children calling him dad?

OMW to my attorneys rite now with the audio. She said we will find a way to use it. She said rule #1.....never involve your kids. My moms thoughts.....supervised visits for WW.

I will update later.

SIHW, you remind me of me. I too blocked most of my memories. I do remember him taking a bath with me once, when I was 9 or 10 or 11...

Anyway, I was the tomboy just so my dad would notice me; I helped him build a house; went fishing; cleaned his boat; joined softball to please him; otherwise I wouldn't have seen the light of day with him.

Any rate, once he left my mom, for my 'visitations' with him, he would take me to the bimbo d'jour's house (well, usually apartment, they always affair down), and I would 'get' to babysit her brats while they'd go out or else go to her bedroom. Oh joy.

Anyway, carp, be strong. Don't try to be her friend. This is NOT your wife, she's an alien. Now is the wrong time to show her how nice and great you are when you're dealing with financial and legal issues.

SIHW and Cat thx for sharing your stories. I too came from a broken home and had no real father figure....it's not an excuse....but when you have no teacher....you don't get a good student!! My current relationship with my dad is a "buddy" type relationship. My WWs childhood...you guys got a brief pic of that a couple posts ago.....

So....the past is the past....let's work on today!

Met with my lawyer for about an hour last night while we listened to the audio....we made it about 30mins in and she had a whole page of notes. She is going to file a petition to not talk about the divorce with the kids kinda thing....there is probably a legal term but she didn't use it.

She shares office space with a criminal attorney and she is gonna talk to her about the best way to present this info. Recordings are illegal....so we can't divulge how we know so much....you could see the gears in her head spinning!! You could here my WW let out a long "whoa is me sigh" on the audio...and then it starts. WW even says at one point to the girls that "she probably shouldn't be talking about this stuff"...but carries on. My daughters even start to side with her on stuff...what kid wouldn't with their parent. D12 even tells WW about the "I hate mom" comment and my WW starts to cry! D12 starts apologizing over and over to her. This recording was from Tuesday night.

Wednesday night in counseling with the kids we touch on the subject and D12 goes into full anger mode....towards me. Calling me a liar, talking about how I was never there for her in the past and now I am. My own kids are being spun about the past....just like Mel said. When we started the session both girls were saying how much they enjoy "new dad". They like spending time with me, etc.

Did you ever expose the affair at WW's work place?

Did you ever expose OM parents?

Yup. 12-29-2008