Gosh, this brings back so many bad memories.

D-Day in my case was in May 2005. My FWW didn't stop working with the OM until December 2005. In the beginning I was also under the impression that they might be able to work together.

What really happened is that not only was recovery of our M delayed by over 6 months, the fact that I allowed such a situation to continue did a lot of damage to our relationship and adversely affected our recovery!

Don't make the same mistake that I did!

You say that you are a pastor, do you have a building that you work from? Can you begin gym classes near here?

Have you consulted with OM that he know that is unwelcome by you?

Lastly, a huge billboard around your car outside their gym would resolve a business matters. Lets see how the CEO handles that!

When she says that you deserve a second chance means that there is deep spiritual conflict within her. Share that you two are a team and you need her to guide you through this time.

one last question ... help me interpret this fog talk ...
"I'm giving you another chance because it's fair"
Mel nailed this. It means "I want to be able to say I tried to save the M but it didn't work out."

Counseling is pretty much useless while the A is ongoing.

The workplace is a fitness gym ... hr, ceo ... none of them care at all ... all are waywards it seems.
They don't care while it's gossip and hearsay, no. But when it's in writing and clearly shows all the people that were copied, it takes on a whole new tone. Now it's an officially documented workplace affair. If OM works at the gym then they're opening themselves up to sexual harassment charges when the A ends.


OM is not married,
Let me guess. Your reliable, honest, trustworthy WW told you this. And she got the info from the ever-so-honorable OM. Verify this independently. You'd be surprised how often this info is inaccurate. It boggles the mind.

thanks th ... you are right, the legal print and threat of a lawsuit would likely incite action within the workplace.

your interpretation of the Fogtalk was what I expected ... less egg on her face when she says she gave it another shot.

Om is def. not married, I know him, we hung out a bit socially when I was part of the club ...

Imagine asked if I've confronted OM, no - I haven't, not sure how to without getting thrown in jail.
any advice on that one?

Quote

he just left his fiancee in the last month or so ... presumably to make room for my wife ...

This is not good!!! Please tell me he has a new girlfriend!!!

man in motion ... It's good to know that you can identify ... I'm not intending to allow this to go on ... exposure doesn't seem to have forced the end yet ... but there are bigger guns, like the legal threats referenced below that will likely end both of their jobs, and likely end the A pretty quick.

If she does not end the A of her own choice with agreement of NC within the next week. I will do everything in my power to ruin it for them ... why wait a week ... to see if exposure does the trick and to avoid further damage to an already fragile relationship unless it becomes necessary to do so.

flynn ... my ww is the new girlfriend - at least in the bubble
I'm not sure if OMFiance discovered, or he revealed ... but they are done ... I know for sure from sources close to them.

Why have you not exposed to family members? Is there no one in the family of influence on your WW? Don't believe that this is only an EA. What POSOM dumps his fiance for a new GF without testing the goods out? Try to contact the exGF and ask questions. If OM dumped her, she'll probably be very happy to see him gutted. I'd confront OM as well. He's after cheap thrills. Is he signing up to play step daddy to your kids? I doubt it. Make your presence known.

Oh my, contact is still going on?! That just won’t work, never has, never will. There is not one example of a happily recovered marriage in the face of daily contact with a former lover, NOT ONE.


For goodness sake, her job is a fitness instructor? If she were president of IBM our advice would tell her to leave, but a “fitness instructor”? Foolish, foolish girl.

She must leave. I’m sorry to say, there is NO other way. Either she or he must leave. Tell her to pack her shorts and get out.

Either she leaves or you will soon find yourself in Plan B.

Mr. G

om is 12 years older, sensitive, sentimental, romantic (all the things that I've not done well in 12 years of marriage) ... living unhappily with his girlfriend.

Remember this guy is a professional at this!!! He flirts with women all day for years. This is not his first rodeo!!

What I was saying earier was that if he doesn't have a current GF and he and your wife are only having a EA, then he will be pushing even harder for a PA...if you know what I mean.

I would agree with Turtle on her comment. You wife has tried to remain above board within a thin frame work. This is why you need to remove the bullets from the gun.

A second chance means absolute NC with OM.

Is this a YMCA? How do you know none of them care?


How do you know he left his fiance? Do you know who she is? WHO gave you this information?

LOL! She had already said the SAME THING I was thinking. NEVER MIND!

GWN, please call her TODAY. It is very likely she has no idea. It is doubtful the OM would ditch his gf for your wife. That would be a rare exception. Either way, she needs a phone call from you to ensure she knows the truth of the situation.

I'm sure she has no idea ... I'm trying to figure out how to reach her - don't even know where she works, where she lives, what her last name is ...

as soon as I track it down I'll be in contact with her

good man!

Turtle,
why is counseling useless while the A is active? can't it help to lift the fog and help the WS determine to end the A and go NC?

GWN,
You ask why counseling is not useful in ending the A. If she is going for individual counseling, individual counselors are usually focussed on the "individual." They are frequently not thinking about the other people (children, husband) involved in the life of the "individual" that they are counseling.

They frequently encourage the "individual" to look for fullfillment for their own life by "finding themselves." They can actually encourage the individual to separate from the spouse in order to "find themselves."

The counselor can only act or give counsel based on what the individual is telling them. A spouse involved in an affair will likely tell the counselor very foggy information. Hence, the counselor can end up supporting the fog. You are a pastor, so your WW may be going to a counselor that supports your marriage, but I don't know if this is the case.

I hope you write a letter to her workplace like Mel suggests.

we are seeing the same counselor, first individually (for clear honest disclosure) then together as a couple. This counselor is for "the marriage" not for the flaky find yourself motif.

The reason counseling is useless while in an affair is because the affair prevents recovery. The goal of counseling is RECOVERY, an impossible goal while in an affair. The only thing that will lift the fog is the END OF THE AFFAIR. Many counselors aggravate the problem because they focus on FEELINGS, current feelings, rather than a strategy to save the marriage. And that is very dangerous when dealing with a wayward who is intoxicated by adultery.