Yup!

frig, plan A is hard. It really is day to day isn't it. Everyday WW walks out the door to go to work where I know she'll see OM nearly kills me. I want to rage. My kids are beginning to suffer from the heightened tension in the home. I've got to get my sh** together and start focusing on me becoming a better man and caring for my kids, instead of obsessing and wallowing in hurt and fear.

Looks like I'll have plenty of time to work on me as I'm likely to be placed on a forced sabbatical (church) until this comes to some kind of conclusion.

WW refuses NC ... I've been calm and honest in every request and have offered to create avenues for her to continue her job while committed to NC - she won't budge. I thought her remorse would be greater and her return would be sooner. I realize that I'm in this for the long haul ... aware that Plan B might become a factor some day.

Any suggestions on self-help material I can read on becoming more emotionally available ... seems the big EN miss has been emotional connection, verbal praise, emotional availability - hearing her, believing in her, supporting her dreams.

I'm a reader, and will have time - so fire your suggestions at me.

bracing for the long haul.

How old are your children and have they been told?


ARe those misses defined by HER? Or you? The key is to find out what her top needs are according to her. Have you both taken the Emotional needs questionaires? They key is meeting EN's, avoiding lovebusters and learning the use of the Policy of Joint Agreement. Do you have His Needs, Her Needs?

thanks for the quick response mel.

those misses are defined by her. explicitly. She has told me straight up where I've missed it in the last 12. Didn't tell me during those 12, told me now, once the A is on.

my kids are 8 and 6 - probably too young to be brought into the loop.

I have SAA and HNHN ...

we have not taken the EN questionnaire or looked at the Policy of Joint Agreement ... we're not really collaborating on recovery yet, it's more just me working plan A, waiting for the A to end.

I'm doing my best to avoid LB, but when the hurt breaks through it's an ugly scene, not anger, just gut wrenching sobs.
I find it difficult to celebrate "work victories" with a smile, knowing that she shares that world with OM. For example ... she landed a huge contract yesterday ... she was thrilled, and I was proud of her, told her so with a big smile and a hug ... but the scene playing out in the back of my head had her celebrating on the spot with OM before she got home to tell me. Keeping positivity moving around is becoming more difficult with each day.

GWN, I suspect that you are not going to be able to pull off a LONG Plan A if she won't end her affair. It is important to take into account your mental state. It will do no good for your family if you are beaten down from this abuse. You are all your children have and they need you to be emotionally healthy.

If she will not end her affair, a separation - Plan B - would be the Marriage Builders plan. And it makes sense if you think about it. When we associate with evil, we get sucked down into the morass ourselves. This is what happen when folks stay too long in abusive situations. They erode mentally and physically.

If it does come to that, you would want to consider how to get her out of the home via a legal separation that leaves you with the home and primary custody of your children. If it does get to the legal stage, you can have your attorney call the OM as witness to adultery if you are in a fault state.

When the WS won't end the affair, as in your case, it is a good idea to let them know that:

1. you will not live like this for much longer because it is too painful - the marriage cannot survive this way
2. if legal action is warranted to resolve the problem, you will be seeking possession of the house and primary custody of the children, filing on grounds of adultery [if you have grounds in your state]
3. you will be calling the OM to the stand to give sworn testimony under oath about the details of the affair
4. you will never be her "friend" if it comes to that - you would not want to be a friend with someone who hurt you so badly

The above message is very important to a fogged out WS. She is in a fantasy and cannot see the consequences lying in her path. She needs to know it will not be pretty to continue to abuse you and your children. Giving her a dose of reality often serves to wake them up somewhat.

She needs to know there will be consequences.

should I just leave off the discussion about her establishing NC?
I've made it abundantly clear that this has to happen - should I keep calmly flogging the dead horse, or is it important to persist with the statement of fact that until the A is done, we can't rebuild.

It seems that ww is looking for me to become a better man, so she can fall in love with me again, then she'll really end the A. I know that she won't ever fall in love with me again until the A is done. It's a vicious circle.

I'm beginning to understand that I need to become a better man for myself, and for my kids, and for whomever else is part of my life in the future (hopefully my currently ww) My motivation can't be rooted in her ... it's too discouraging when there is no reciprocation, only hurt laid upon hurt.

honestly, it's like she chooses to betray me again every time she walks out the door to go to work.

it hasn't even been a month ...
I expect more from myself.

Quite a bit of it is likely manufactured. I would ask her to take the emotional needs questionaire if she will. That will better identify her needs.


They very much need to be told. They need moral guidance and if you don't tell them - SHE WILL. And I guarantee you it won't be moral, it will be lies and rationalizations and demonizations of their father. Kids can deal with the truth, they can't deal with lies. They need the truth FROM YOU [not a spun version from her] and then she needs to explain why she is willing to destroy their family over her adultery. Dr. Harley is adamant about telling the children and he is right.

Dr. Harley on telling the children:



Question put to Dr Harley from woman with 4 yr old twins and a 7 yr old:
This is a segment that is sloppily and partially transcribed by me that was on the Dr Laura show. I thought Dr. Laura made some EXCELLENT and profound points about the effects of lying to children about adultery. I don't always agree with her views on adultery, but she is right on in this aspect. I can email you this 1 hour MP3 if you want it: ohmelodylane@aol.com

Dr. Laura show [4:25 min into segment - 5-15-08]

Caller: Husband had an affair with good friend for 2 years. Her H ws one of his "buddies."

Dr. Laura: Do you have minor children?

Caller: Yes, we both do

Dr. Laura: They are willing to hurt your kids? Why are they willing to break up the families?

caller: Basically, they said they are not "happy."

Dr L: So that is the explanation for being willing to hurt their kids? They are doing this to be "happy?"

What can I do to possibly help you?

Caller: I need to know what to tell my kids.

Dr. Laura: THE TRUTH. They are breaking up 2 families because they have decided.....

See, I am not of the school where you stand by and do pretend with kids where this is all ok. Because this is NOT OK.

The most important story is that this is NOT OK. sit down with your husband and tell him you are going to explain to our children, in a factual, non hysterical way I am going to explain to the kids the horrible thing you are doing to destroy their family. That you are "not happy" is not sufficient reason to destroy 2 families and I am going to make this clear to them because I want them to grow up understanding this is WRONG.

That is my advice. And i think everybody should be clear this is selfish behavior that is WRONG, vows were made.

Not being "happy" is something you work to turnaround, not something you destroy a family over. If both of these people were to hear this was going to happen they will have second thoughts.

DO not think for a moment you are doing wrong by telling your children this. It is your moral obligation to teach them right from wrong. EVEN when it demonstrates a parent has done wrong. The parent cannot be whitewashed and get away with that - THAT IS WRONG and that does not teach the children

I really hope alot of people hear this. Alot of ppl want to whitewash what they are doing. Kids should know that is your attitude.

But to tell the custodial parent: hey don't make me look bad for my own selfish gain is ABSURD! and is EVIL! We are going to make wrong seem ok. Kids will lose any sense of right and wrong. Kids will be taught that anything is ok as long as it makes me "happy." Kids lose any sense of right or wrong. "well, it makes me happy to use drugs" when I am 12 It makes me "happy" to get on my knees and give 4 6th graders oral sex. That is what they teach their kids.

This is what happens when you whitewash wrongdoing to make no body feel bad which is why I get called MEAN. I get called mean because I say the truth. "Its MEAN to say something is right or wrong; its mean to make somebody feel bad!" Its MEAN to say the truth. People get shut down when they get called "judgmental" when they say the truth. The intent is to shut you down. Well, I don't shut up. Kids don't learn important truths when they allow others to shut them down. We don't help our children when we don't say the truth and support them in saying what is right and wrong.

GWN,
Those may be her emotional needs. But she is telling you that you have not met them in the 12 years in order to justify her affair. While she is in her affair, she will try to block you from meeting her emotional needs. She does not want you to meet them because then, she will have less justification for her affair. If you try to push too hard with meeting them, you will end up looking needy and weak in her eyes.

Remember, she is responsible for making the choice to have an affair. She is giving you a lot of fog-justification for her affair right now.

Have you been able to find the OM's supposedly ex-girlfriend yet? I think it is important that you find her and have a conversation with her. Your wife is telling you that it is an emotional affair. But you are also hearing that his girlfriend left OM. I doubt that it is an emotional affair and suspect that it is physical as well. OM's girlfriend might have information that would shed some light on this situation.

I truly doubt that this guy left his girlfriend for your wife and he is not involved in a physical relationship with anyone right now.

You may have more success in getting more information about what your wife is doing right now than attempting to meet her emotional needs in a way that pleases her.

Continually bring this up and the pain she is causing by seeing her adultery partner every day at work. Firm persistance is the key. If you don't bring it up, she won't think about it anymore. It is up to you to defend your boundaries and she can't be counted on to do so.


right, this is nonsense. She is not trying to fall in love with you. She is trying to endure you so she can continue her affair.

I will point out something very important, gwh. Women do not respect men they can run over. Our love is contingent upon the respect we feel. So keep this in mind if you feel you have crossed that line into appeasement, because that is a very bad place to be if you want to endear your wife. This is not about appeasement, but about standing firmly for your marriage without lovebusting. It is not [censored] kissing, etc. It is important to know this.

Your wife needs to see you stand up firmly for your marriage and your children't family, NOT sitting by allowing her to destroy them with unwarranted nice words. Just be careful here.


SHE IS. It is a death of a thousand cuts.

thanks all ... working on the OM ex-fiancee, narrowed down to where she works, so I'll contact their HR and try to get in touch.

I hear what you are saying about the kids ... that's hard, but it's right.

hard to keep my own head out of her fog.

contacted OM ex-fiancee ... they are still under the same roof, engagement ended in November ... she suspected my WW to be the cause but never confirmed ... I confirmed her suspicions today. So ... more exposure, he's about to get a world of pressure and panic on his end ... she owns the house he lives in. Mold doesn't grow in the light.

hoping there are some friends out there right now.

the sh** hit the fan today ... i exposed A to OMfiancee ... they are living under the same roof, still sleeping together ...

then I found out the straight goods that the EA is really PA.

Most of you knew that anyway, but I was hopeful enough or naive enough to believe her.

I confronted her on the lies, reaffirmed my commitment to recovery in our marriage, that there is forgiveness and a road back from the depths to which she has sunk.

She ranted a bit about how what I had done was not love (exposing to OMFiancee) and all that bs that usually comes along with the shame of exposure - you exposed me, that's not love, I'm going to be with the man who loves me (om)

so, she stormed out ... said she was headed to her moms.
I waited 5 minutes then went to her workplace, she was there, with OM, so I confronted them both together, assured them that there was no way that I'd allow my kids anywhere near the two of them ... caustic and destructive, untrustworthy in everyway.
Told them that this was only the beginning, that I want my wife back and will fight to see her freed from the fog of this A.

Then, for good measure, I made sure the receptionist/office manager knew of the affair, and reminded the CEO of the sexual harassment implications that will occur when they end the A and my WW claims that she was trading sexual favors for advancement in the company ... since the OM is senior to her in the organization.

So, OMW knows and is livid, she owns the house they live in, so I'm sure OM is out on the street tonight.
WWparents know ... and are livid, they are ready to intervene in a big way
WWbrother is going to hunt her down to talk sense into her, and hunt down OM with a big stick (better him than me)
My folks are caring for the kids, trying to keep them out of the mess.
Church leadership community knows all and is caringly confronting her sin every chance they can.

With CEO and harassement threats in play, they may both lose their jobs - sucks for him, he'll be left with no money and no bed. WW can come back to me for all the provision she needs.

This all just sucks, and the PA dynamic hits me hard since that was a sacred element of our marriage, both of us were virgins when we married, she can never get the purity of that back - I don't know at this point if I want her back.

deep breath. I know this really doesn't change anything ... she's feeling the stick of plan A ... the carrot is still in play ... i just need to reconcile to another layer of hurt and keep on with the plan.

If she doesn't return ... does that force us into plan B? My LB$ balance is pretty low right about now.

little help or commiseration?

GWN,
I am very sorry that some of us were correct in the PA aspect of the affair. Sounds like you have been very smart in what you did today.

Hopefully, you have created a fissure in the affair relationship in that OM will realize your WW is not worth the trouble that he now has.

Are your finances protected?

What State do you live in--is it a no fault State?

Do you have an attorney to make sure that you will be able to secure custody of your children?

i hope you are right about the fissure ... i threatened the two of them with the statement that I will not allow the kids anywhere near their relationship, looked him in the eye and told him that he's taking her away from her kids, wonder if he can live with that - that's some heavy karma.

finances are protected.

I'm in Canada, pretty sure it's no-fault.

No attorney yet - how do I secure custody ... what's the tactic?
abandonment, admitted adultery?

Unfortunately, he does not give a thought to the chidren. You know the drill about do not leave your home--right? Also, be careful now that you have confronted both of them regarding any tactic she might use on you to claim she feels you are threatening her physically.

You may want to consider getting some sort of recording device that you can have running if you think she is in the mood to call for police protection. You don't want to get removed from your home.

You need to find a good attorney to go over options of getting custody.

Others will be by soon with more advice.

How did you find out that the affair was PA?

GWN, I am so sorry you know about the PA now. I want to applaud you for bravely standing up for your family. The conflict you caused today is like chemotherapy to cancer. Yes, your wife is furious that you interfered in her affair, but her anger will wear off.

I would IMPLORE you to sit those kids down NOW and tell them about the affair and give them moral guidance. If you don't, SHE WILL. [and they won't get the truth] You have the affair on the ropes now, don't give up. Telling the kids will BRACE them for what is to come and it will also further smash your wife's fantasy.

You have inflicted a huge blow today on this evil affair.

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. Philippians 4:13

This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God." ( John 3:19-21)

Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. Ephesians 5:11

Sorry that the EA is in fact a PA. Holding on to that tiny bit of hope just to have it snuffed out...BTDT Sorry.

Good thing is you have exposed and the walls of the A will start crumbling in. On Dday I did not want my FWH back. But I did want the A to end regardless because I would not tolerate skankho being around my children in any way, shape or form. FWH was always going to be their dad, but tramp-o-lean had to go. You have family for support. Lean on them when you need to. You need to take care of yourself too. As Mel advised, I would tell your children in an age appropriate manner. Mine are about the same age as yours and explaining basic right and wrong to them about the situation can be done without the gory details.

Thumbs up on the workplace and Church exposure. Did WW say she wasn't coming home?

she confided in a friend who told me. I confronted her and asked for the truth. she confessed.

premeditated rendezvous ... not some heat of the moment one-night stand.