Here is what happens when adulterers continue to work together and is the very reason why Dr. Harley is "ADAMANT" that all contact end even if it means moving to another state. This was written by a Former WS on this forum and is a very vivid, articulate depiction of what happens:


No contact, lifechoice http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1659249&fpart=3

Every time I read where a WS is still working with the AP I cringe because I know exactly where things are headed. I know I said this before, but I only worked 6 days a month and after I ended the A, of the 6, we maybe worked together 1 or 2. When I ended the A it brought relief and neither FOM nor I wanted the A any longer, but regardless I was hooked. Just seeing his car in the parking lot, his name on an work email, or anything related to him kept me hooked.

I never knew ahead of time if I was going to be working with him. If I pulled into the parking lot and saw his car I would feel happy and sad at the same time and if his car was not there I would feel relief and sad at the same time.

My therapist told me to journal and after I confessed the stuff in there just makes me shake my head. Now when I read the stuff I did, said, etc it makes me sick to my stomach. I honestly believed I was on my best behavior because we were not crossing any inappropriate lines or so we thought. Now I can "see" exactly what happened and how it fed my addiction to the A. All those "professional" conversations that had bits and pieces of non-professional idle chit chat, facial expressions, body language, the unnecessary walk-by's, the acknowleging everyone but him days, etc where so harmful. And then my poor H would get to hear all about it because I was being open and honest. I have no idea why he didn't leave me because of what I put him through.

In a sec I will add a snippet from my journal and a prime example of why FAP's cannot stay working together. I hadn't seen my FOM in who knows how long. Docp had recently asked for all the details of the A and I was a complete nervous wreck. When I got to work, FOM was there, I was having a really bad day and to top it off was exposed to TB by a patient. The TB deal was the straw that broke the camels back. I had a meltdown in my FOM's office and almost passed out. I asked him if I could sit for a second and that second of sitting lead to a conversation we never should have had.

We talked about Docp's and his W's reaction, how we all were coping, how stupid and weak we were etc, etc. Even sitting here now I remember the feeling I had and KNEW we should not have been having that conversation, but it was making me feel better when I felt like crap. What I didn't realize was I had just had a big dose fed to my addiction and the whole cycle started again.

Here is the snippet from my journal: (I changed names of course)

"It felt good to talk to him and clear a lot of this up. He even mentioned it was nice that we were able to talk and I feel like he meant it, not in an appropriate way, just a friendly way. (Ah, this from the person who has been avoiding talking to me forever) I felt like I was talking to my 'old friend" the way it was for years before we messed everything up. I told Docp about the whole conversation. He was ok with this conversation, but said he wouldn't be really happy if we started talking all the time. duh!!!!!! I just said I understand and didn't plan on talking to him about anything that wasn't work related."

OK, in all reality Docp was NOT OK with the conversation and told me he didn't care if I was going to faint or not I needed to crawl out of his office, not sit and chat with him. But in my happy place I honestly believed because I told Docp about the conversation it really was OK. I was completely delusional and thought because it made me feel so good, it HAD to be OK.

I had all this going on and I rarely saw my FOM, can you just imagine what is going on when people are seeing each other every day?

Anyway back to NC, I'm not sure if I simply missed it before, but it seems lately we have more who are willing to allow the WS to continue working with the AP and have a zillion and one excuses on why it's OK. I'm never surprised when they find out the A is still ongoing though because I could tell them the details of what is going on during the work day when the WS honestly feels they are on their best behavior.

i agree with you ... but it does demonstrate willingness to make some necessary changes. I'll take the small step and help her turn it into the major step of a total exit.

she's depressed and withdrawn, can't engage with family and kids.
certainly not receiving anything from me, but the wounds are fresh, so I hope that time will heal.

This week will be hell as she changes her clients over to evenings to that her path doesn't cross the OM ... they will connect as usual this week, may swing her right back into the affair and we're back to square one. I don't know what to do. I've insisted on NC, she's agreed that it's right and made changes that will apply, but any real attempt at NC is at least a week away. I know that more is needed but don't want to push hard on a fragile shell of a ww.

we are not out of the woods yet.
how do I love her in the midst of this?

there have been some dramatic moves in the right direction for the recovery of our marriage.
Full exposure led to the end of the A. WW told the OM face to face (I know you all prefer the letter approach) that they were through and that she'd have no further contact with him. She then told her boss that she's altering her scheduling to schedule all clients in the evening when OM is not around. She has verbally committed to work on our marriage, to pursue counseling and to try to give herself fully to me again.

I doubt the OM will give up since the exposure completely ruined any hope of recovery with his GF. I know that NC will not happen this week as WW transitions from day shift to evening.

She has agreed to inform me of any contact, even just visually across the room.

I know that this is not a total NC and we've not really entered recovery, we're in that grey area.

I will continue to provide options for her to move her clients to a separate facility so that there is no chance for incidental contact - expect that she will go for this as the fog clears.

I also understand that she is grieving the loss of what was a meaningful and fulfilling relationship for her. She is withdrawn, and hostile toward me for having force it to an end, but she's also here under my roof, saying that she wants to work it out.

Her affections are still cold, and her demeanor is disengaged. I'm not looking for sex, but even attempts at affection and non-sexual touch are met with a cold-shoulder.

I know that standard practice is to keep meeting her EN and avoid LB ... that maybe i can help move her from withdrawal into conflict and eventually intimacy.

when will she start to be open enough for me to begin to make deposits?

Am I reading all of this right? Is this normal? Can anyone point me to threads that deal with this early stage of recovery?

you've all been a lifeline to me ... cannot express my thanks enough.

gwn, instead of going through all this ADJUSTMENT to get to something that WILL NOT POSSIBLY WORK, why not adjust to something that WILL WORK? THIS IS NOT A SOLUTION!

She has not agreed that it is "right" if she is continuing to go to the same place. You are making a bargain with the DEVIL that you will come to regret by agreeing to this. You are taking an easier, softer way that will ruin your chance of recovery.

you had BETTER PUSH NOW if you want to have a marriage. The longer you wait, the less leverage you will have. Accepting a condition that PREVENTS recovery is not a solution, gwn.

Tell her NOW, TODAY that this will not work. Only complete and total separation and no contact from the OM will allow recovery of your marriage.

Tell her: I want our marriage to recover but that can only happen if one of you LEAVES that gym. I am willing to try this under those conditions.

This is hopeless. Recovery is impossible this way. You are accepting FOOLS GOLD.

Try this one:


Dr. Harley: In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?

so you think that it is a fallacy to think that there can be NC as long as they work for the same employer? impossible?

Dr. Harley:

"But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible."

if i were to write that she has quit her job, and will never set foot in the gym again, that she's broken up with OM, changed her cell # and email - given me complete access to phone records, email, cell, text history.

and that we're pursuing counseling and following Harley's plans
would you all applaud and say ... there you go, now you are in recovery?

is the real issue that you are all pointing out that until she quits her job that this is an ongoing affair, despite what rhetoric she spreads?

They are bound to see each other there sooner or later. And when it happens you will never hear about it. You only have the word of a liar. She will be triggered every time she sees him or his car.

This is how a 6 month affair turns into a 5 and 10 yr affair. I do not know of ONE MARRIAGE in the 8 years I have been here that ever recovered when the WS worked at the same place as her OP. In every instance it became an on-off again affair for years.

Every day she leaves for work could be THE DAY. You will have to wonder every day she leaves for work. You will never know. Nor will she will ever withdraw this way. Rearranging her schedule is WINDOW DRESSING that will achieve NOTHING. NOTHING.

Take it from the QUEEN OF CORNER CUTTING, this is a corner you don't DARE cut.

you got it! She will eventually see the OM at work, it is a foregone conclusion. And every time that happens, she will be TRIGGERED AGAIN.

I'm afraid that she doesn't love me enough, or want to save our marriage strongly enough to be willing to quit her job.

seems like she's willing to end it with OM but not leave the job

Then you don't have a marriage anyway. You have nothing to lose except a slow death of a thousand cuts. gwn, you have no chance if she continues to work there.

Oh no. She is not willing to end it. She wants to go further underground with your permission.

Settling for a death of a thousand cuts along with more of this affair is not a solution, gwn. You are allowing the drunk to stay drunk by changing the name of her drinks to "business drinks." That is all that is happening here.

then why not just leave me? why stay and talk all this crap about wanting to work it out.

why not just say it's over ... I'm out ... let's sign the papers?

Why? When she can have both of you?

hmmm.

so the true test lies in her willingness to leave the job.
and therefore om, entirely, forever.

This is all BULLCRAP if not accompanied by ACTIONS that nmake recovery possible. Wanting to work it out means nothing if she refuses to initiate even the most BASIC requiremnts of recovery. Her plan will not effect recovery.

If I tell you I want to recover but still go to the bar every day, don't my ACTIONS defy my words?

Your wife is a fogged out alien and she does not know what it will take to recover your marriage. YOU DO. Her plan is the easier, softer way. It is a HALF MEASURE. And I assure you that half measures will avail you nothing. NOTHING.

YOU ARE ALLOWING A DRUNK DRIVER TO DRIVE THE CAR.

A test of what? She does not know what it will take to recover your marriage. All she wants is to keep you both on the plantation and keep her life as intact as possible.