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Hi everyone-
Just another question i want to hear everyone's take on. this has been ruminating around in my head for over a year.

as a BS, it would be SO helpful to my healing - if any (of the 12) OW in my H's life, would APOLOGIZE to me. it would mean to me that they saw and recognize the hurt they caused to me.

Out of the 12 OW, only 4 were women who i didnt know. and one was a very close "friend" (HAHA) , one was my daughter's best friend's mother so we were constantly together, one was my H's secretary who called me constantly, one was a "friend" i talked to once in a while... and on and on.

but i just thought how easy it would be for them to apologize. even if they didnt want to TALK to me- they could e mail me or even write a snail mail letter.

it would mean ALOT. it would restore my faith in humanity. it would help me to forgive them.

so- my question to my H, is that i wonder why he has no interest in apologizing to the H of his OW? there really is only one man he could apologize to- the rest are divorced- (two were his "friends" also - who have since divorced and would kill him if they knew).

so there is this one H, who i called after he confessed and told about his wife having an affair with my H- because he didnt know. we had a few lengthy conversations for about a month and hten stopped talking. he was a nice guy who was depressed about his marriage and couldnt understand why. they were in MC and it wasnt working. sounds like my life!

his wife was too busy calling my H everyday to say she loved him and buying him expensive gifts. they lived out of state, and he only saw her on their professional conferences, but spoke daily.

anyway- back to my question- so i put my H in the place of hte OW who havent apologized to me and ask him if he has ever thought of doing it... and he says no.

he says WHY? i explain how i feel. then he says and does nothing.

i dont know if i am realistic or not in this expectation... but i would respect my H so much for doing this.

it would show me that he has empathy for hte man he hurt- that he has COURAGE, that he has INTEGRITY.

this is really part of step #8 - in all the 12 step programs - "making amends". i was in overeaters anonymous for awhile.

WHAT'S THE CONSENSUS OUT THERE?? ANYONE FEEL LIKE ME??? AGREE OR DISAGREE???

SF



BS- me 56; FWH-58
3 kids, DS 23,23 DD 14; Married: 34 years
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Originally Posted by sunflower55
anyway- back to my question- so i put my H in the place of hte OW who havent apologized to me and ask him if he has ever thought of doing it... and he says no.

he says WHY? i explain how i feel. then he says and does nothing.

i dont know if i am realistic or not in this expectation... but i would respect my H so much for doing this.

it would show me that he has empathy for hte man he hurt- that he has COURAGE, that he has INTEGRITY.

this is really part of step #8 - in all the 12 step programs - "making amends". i was in overeaters anonymous for awhile.

WHAT'S THE CONSENSUS OUT THERE?? ANYONE FEEL LIKE ME??? AGREE OR DISAGREE???

SF

I think it is important to respect one's spouse.

I required that apology the same week of D day.

It appears that your H disagrees with "making amends".

So, here you are, at an important crucible in your marriage.

It is a dilemma your H does not want to face.

His choices:

1. Make amends

2. Lose his wife's respect


Your choices:

1. Make this a boundary (do this or we are separating)

2. Let this go completely (and never mention it again)


This is the crucible in your marriage:



You would like your H to choose #1

Your H would like you to chose #2

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The obvious solution to such an important marriage crucible is to POJA a mutually enthusiastic solution.

Call the Harleys. Make THAT your boundary.

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Sunflower55,

I am a FOW who did apologize to my FOM's DW. Many will say OW only apologize to ease their guilt, but that is not why I did it. I knew I couldn't erase what I did, but I wanted her to know how sincerely sorry I was for hurting her like I did.

I knew her and believe it was the right thing to do.

When I first apologized to her she said she was not able to accept it. I completely understood. Many months later I received a note in the mail from her accepting my apology.

LC

Last edited by lifeschoice; 02/22/09 03:41 PM. Reason: typo




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Apologies are an interesting part of human nature.

When a person apologizes, they can do it for many reasons:

1. Someone is making them do it, in which case it is meaningless.

2. Someone expects it, and so the apologizer somehow feels obligated, so it is meaningless.

3. They have come to realize their own behavior was inexcusable, and feel the personal need to make amends - and in this case it is for an honorable purpose and therefore has meaning. One might make the argument that the apology is somewhat selfish in nature in that it is for the healing of the person doing the apology as much as it is for the healing of the offended party. This has somewhat of a chance of being accepted, but still can be seen by the offended party as selfish, because they can read in the apologizer that there is that selfish vein of self-need and self-healing in it.

4. They have come to the realization that their own behavior was inexcusable and they feel absolutely compelled to heal the person they have harmed. They have also realized that they have no true way to make amends, but their words of apology can make at least some form of inroad toward that offended party's healing, at least so that the person knows the offender takes the blame completely and is now set on a path of self-correction. This is the most "true" apology, and when heard is most likely to be accepted.


Of course, there are other apology areas I haven't covered - many other reasons for delivery. Just some high points here that come to mind in this situation.

Sunflower, which jumps out at you as your husband's right now?


And how will OW's H respond?


Your husband SHOULD apologize, absolutely. I agree 100%.

And that apology should have substance, and be meaningful. But it should never be one of those apologies that mimic the playground apology where the teacher makes one kid apologize to another kid - it doesn't mean anything, and they end up fighting after school is out anyway.

Your husband has to mean it - because otherwise it will mean nothing to the recipient. And somewhere down the line? You will get an apology from one of the OW, watch and see.


SB


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
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H and I recently finished a few months of weekly MC for some marriage maintenance.
The C had us take a questionnaire individually, and one of the Q's was about apologizing. When I can find it, I'll post it. (H has it, I asked him to find it in his office, so, when he has the time)

I was surprised that H and I answered that Q differently!

Recognizing our differences of opinion about apologizing taught me a lot.

What seemed - to me -
to be THE one completely LOGICAL answer was not completely logical to H.

Interesting to say the least !!!

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Men and women do have differing expectations regarding apologies.

And different approaches to doing this.

Sometimes, for men, the less said the better.

SB


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
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Originally Posted by schoolbus
Men and women do have differing expectations regarding apologies.

And different approaches to doing this.

Sometimes, for men, the less said the better.

SB

LOL

so true crazy

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Hi pep-
i read your response with my H. it makes so much sense- but he is obviously not at the place yet, where his apology is at number 4 - what schoolbus said about apologies.

i guess if i knew that one of the OW apologized to me because they were being forced to - or for their own feelings- it would mean far less to me. how about you??

we will discuss with this issue with the harleys. we will be at the seminar in march. i'm not sure we can afford another phone session now.

also - another deep concern - about his friends who are now divorced from their wives... do they need to know?? i am sure they would become violent with him and possibly do something to harm our family. they are not the greatest quality of people.


i think it is more that i want to see his moral quality evolve to that place where HE feels the need to apologize to these people.


BS- me 56; FWH-58
3 kids, DS 23,23 DD 14; Married: 34 years
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Your WH had twelve OW. That being said in the past here when there was the usual one or two OW that the BW should expose the OWH even if the affair was over.

Poster's would give many reasns why this exposure was needed and that the OWH deserved the truth. That deserving the truth was reason enough to tell the OWH.

I have always agreed that the OWH or OMW should be exposed by the BS.

So start exposing. Your WH has not had to face the full consequences for his actions. Neither has his twelve OW's.

These twelve men deserve the truth whether they wound up divorced or not.

These twelve men deserve the truth more then an apology from your WH. Their is a good chance that most of them will never want an apology from your WH.

How many times a BS lament's that they knew but no one would tell me.

Exposure is the only thing that will make things right.

How many times a BS has writen here that even though the affair had been over five, ten, fifteen years ago but this marriage never got back on track because the affair was kept secret. Where it just ate away at the marriage.

Last edited by TheRoad; 02/22/09 02:37 PM.
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the road-
while part of me agrees with you that EVERY single woman should have her cheating exposed to their former spouses or present spouses - here's the stats of the women and why i decided to only expose to two BHs.

most of the OW were single. 6 of the women were married at the time of the affairs. of those 6 - four are still married to the same man. Two of those four i exposed to- one in person and the one who lives in another state - by phone. i had to spend many hours to find his home and cell phone, but i did.

the 2 others who are still married, worked for my H, and he is afraid that if we expose to their spouses, the women may file sexual harassment cases which could affect us monetarily.

the other 2 - they both live in our small community and are now divorced from their wives. they were both "friends" with us as couples and with my H. not only would they become violent - they would make my children's lives very uncomfortable. my 11 year old DD does not know and is at a very critical phase of her development- and i dont want her to suffer any more than she has already.

so - for all these reasons - i only exposed those 2. i can live with my decision.
when and if things change - i will definitley expose to the other 4.

also - i thought that the Harleys only really pushed for full exposure when the affair was ongoing... to spoil it and bring it to the light of day. what would be my purpose now to expose to these men? it kind of seems like i am cutting off my nose to spite my face- i'm just hurting myself more than i am gaining.

sf

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lifeschoice-
THANK YOU- THANK YOU - THANK YOU!!!

there is ONE WS out there who understands the pain that they caused - not only to their BS, but to the OP's BS.

i am sure that since you have reached this level of empathy for us BSs, you are a different person than you were when you were a WS.

even the way you acknowledged the BS NOT to accept your apology. you can not know how MUCH this would mean to me. it would help me move on...it would help me to start to believe in humanity again...
sf

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TO THE ROAD AND LIFES CHOICE...
I AM SOOOO SORRY - THAT WAS ME - SUNFLOWER- i used another computer that my H was signed in on!! sorry.
sf55


BS- me 56; FWH-58
3 kids, DS 23,23 DD 14; Married: 34 years
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SB-
once again you hit the nail on the head and made me see the reality of the situation.

how ridiculous that i would FORCE an apology - you're so right -it is exactly like the teacher in the playground. although - i have forced apologies between my kids and even if hte apology is insincere - it is better than nothing. at least the aggreived party knows that the perpetrator knows at some level that there was a wrong committed.

BUT - in this case - maybe what i am MOST upset about is THAT MY H HAS NOT EVOLVED TO THAT PLACE TO MAKE A NUMBER 4 APOLOGY AND THAT HE HAS NOT WORKED ON DOING THIS ON HIS OWN.

since he sees me talk about it - why doesnt he get it?? that he is the male equivalant of the OW in my life???

i think he is scared sh**less.

and i SOOOOO PRAY THAT YOU ARE RIGHT- that i will get an apology from one of the OW.

sf


BS- me 56; FWH-58
3 kids, DS 23,23 DD 14; Married: 34 years
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Sun,

When it comes to apologies over the worst betrayal imagineable, they are meaningless and merely an attempt to punish the betrayer.

I did a reverse sort of thing with my W's Om. I made him call and apologize to my W for poisoning our M. confused

Course, it took a little coerscion on my part to may him see it that way, but heck, I'm not anywhere near perfect.

Anyhow it was pointless, because the betrayers in all of this know full well they are killing the BS' but simply don't care at the time. Same goes for your WH and all of his OW. They all knew what they were doing, and if it didn't stop them at the time, why would today or tomorrow make any difference?

It's a false hope to think OP has somehow had an epihany. In most cases they haven't. They just move on to the next prey. Nature of the beast.

Don't hang your R on this false hat rack. You will often get what you got the first time around, oblivion to your feelings.

All Blessings,
Jerry

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thanks jerry.

yes - in a way , i know you're right. but i am still the eternal optimist at heart- and hope that someday these people will start to develop the qualities of empathy and kindness.

and i havent and wont - hang my hat and wait for their apology. its just that i put myself in their shoes and know what i would do- even though i was in the worst marriage possible, with constant verbal abuse, ignoring of me and the kids- i could never imagine cheating anyway.

i know harley says any person could if hte circumstances were right- but i know that i would have to divorce first before i would get involved with another man.

having the OM apologize to your wife? i dont get it.wasnt she a willing participant in the affair?

as a BS, we are the only parties who did not make a choice to be in the role was find ourselves in.

sf


BS- me 56; FWH-58
3 kids, DS 23,23 DD 14; Married: 34 years
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FWH faced OWH a couple days post Dday. I think OWH thought FWH was going to hide from him but he took OWH's verbal lashing and apologized to him. I'm sure FWH's words sounded hollow to OWH...only sorry because you got caught kind of thing and can't say I blame him. I never brought up the subject to FWH but I'm glad he did face OWH because I would not have respected him for hiding. FWH wronged this man and owed him an apology whether it was accepted or not.

OW never had the balls to face me and apologize.



BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally Posted by shinethrough
When it comes to apologies over the worst betrayal imagineable, they are meaningless and merely an attempt to punish the betrayer.

I completely disagree with your choice of word "punish".


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When did asking someone to do the right thing become an attempt to punish?

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sunflower

"so - for all these reasons - i only exposed those 2. i can live with my decision.
when and if things change - i will definitley expose to the other 4."

So when it suits you, you will be honest. These people deserve the truth. For those still married you are letting them live a lie. You know that for some having a cheating wife they will need to divorce, they won't want to recover. Your actions are forcing them to live a lie.

Then there are the marriages that even though the affair is over and done. They hidden affair just eats away and the relationship is bad because the lie being a wall between them. Their marriage just limps along because the truth is allowed to be buried.

"not only would they become violent - they would make my children's lives very uncomfortable"

How could they become violent. The law will not protect them. These BH know that it's one thing to claim they went crazy if they caught your WH with their WW's in bed. They can't do that now years after the fact.

Why would an adult harm an innocent child? They have no more motivation to hurt your kids as they would hurt you.

You want things to be made right. Well you can't selectively choose which ones you will be honest to and to hell with the other's.

Your WH was able to start this mess. Time for him to man up and finish what he started.

Your WH was brave enough to drop his pants with these OW.

Your WH had no problem being brave and bangimg these married women.

Your WH had no problem being brave having affairs with his friends wives. Banging them whenever and wherever he could.

What happened to your WH's his bravery?

Your WH was selfish then and he's still selfish now.

Last edited by TheRoad; 02/23/09 11:21 AM.
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