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Originally Posted by PLEASE HELP
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exactly are your credentials?

Been here 2 years longer than you... crazy What are yours?

You know what? I know people who have been here as long as you who don't even own a single Marriage Builders book and know absolutely nothing about it, much less practice it in their own personal lives.

Isn't that amazing? Yet they believe they deserve a special status as a "veteran" over someone who has been here for ONE YEAR and has studied the program and actually practices the concepts in their own lives. They show up occasionally for a special cameo appearance to remind others of their special status as a "veteran."

However, I know people who have been here for ONE YEAR that know more than me about Marriage Builders. Those are the ones that deserve special reverance, IMO. Those are the ones that impress me. Seniority does not impress me.

Anyone can sign up on a board. A monkey can do that. But I respect someone who KNOWS this program inside and out and actually LIVES IT.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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There's so much I could say here ML.... but I now recognize you just like to argue... I waved the white flag but you have to be RIGHT...
Well... wanna know something... this thread isn't about YOU so enough....
You see the A as ugly... so does everyone.. DUH...But the difference between the "Old" MB and the new one is people here see the WS as UGLY too...that's the problem...they are not... NO ONE is above it if they are in the worst of Harley's empty love bank situations...NO ONE...Dazed is PROOF of this.
Dazed is one of the best human beings I've ever met....He's not usually argumentative (like you) unless backed into a corner... anyone would find it easy to argue with YOU ML...LOL

Most of us understand Harley's principals...they are pretty simple.. that's why they work...

But we all are different and some prefer Plan "A" some prefer "exposure" some Plan "B"

But...people here argued with Dazed when Steve Harley himself told Dazed to stay in Plan "A" longer....

Because THEY see the WS as an evil worthless being...I wonder if their "Recovered" spouses are even FULLY forgiven....

And as I said before I have witnessed MANY MANY recoveries...but the glory belongs to GOD ALMIGHTY... not US... and not even Harley.... so off the high horse....again... we're on the same team...

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Those are the ones that deserve special reverence, IMO. Those are the ones that impress me. Seniority does not impress me.


Right.....I really have no need for your reverance... I'm here to try and help jgirl....stop looking for your "special reverence" ML.... It's not about you.....AT ALL...

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Originally Posted by PLEASE HELP
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Those are the ones that deserve special reverence, IMO. Those are the ones that impress me. Seniority does not impress me.


Right.....I really have no need for your reverance... I'm here to try and help jgirl....stop looking for your "special reverence" ML.... It's not about you.....AT ALL...

See, thats just the thing, Frank, I am not looking for special reverance. I don't remind people of how long I have been here and then pretend I am QUALIFIED because I have been here "two years longer than you." Ya know what I mean, Frank? wink

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Because THEY see the WS as an evil worthless being...I wonder if their "Recovered" spouses are even FULLY forgiven....

I doubt you have any idea how others see waywards, Frank, unless you really are Madame Cleo in drag. grin That is a pretty presumptive statement that you can't possibly back up. What I see around here - and I actually am around here on a regular basis, you are not - is great support of waywards, so I don't know how you can make such a presumptive generalization when you haven't been here for years.

Anyhoo, thanks so much for stopping in for your annual cameo appearance and setting us all straight. [or has it been 2-3 years?] Now, can we get back to the subject at hand after your untimely disruption on these people's thread?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Hmm Frank - I see what WS's do as being ugly - the rationalisations, the defensiveness as exhibbited here by dazed is indeed ugly. Most people on this forum will cheer on a WS trying to earn their "F". Dazed is nowhere near close to doing that yet. I assure you people here will recognise it when he turns that corner.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
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I don't remind people of how long I have been here and then pretend I am QUALIFIED because I have been here "two years longer than you." Ya know what I mean, Frank?

You asked me my qualifications.... I answered you.. YOU (and BK) were the one that questioned me...I wasn't even writing to either of you...I just stated a fact is all...

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doubt you have any idea how others see waywards, Frank, unless you really are Madame Cleo in drag. That is a pretty presumptive statement that you can't possibly back up. What I see around here - and I actually am around here on a regular basis, you are not - is great support of waywards, so I don't know how you can make such a presumptive generalization when you haven't been here for years.

I lurk here ALL the time.. I jumped in because Dazed is a good old friend... Here... let me "BACK THAT UP" for you...

Here are a few of the things YOU said in only the last 10 hours....and you say you WELCOME WSs????
?

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why is this foghorn on this thread wasting our time?

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WE don't talk to falling down drunks. Where is JGirl?
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Yeah, you are praying alright. Praying the OW's H doesn't find out what you are doing to him!
Yeah....I wonder how many you pushed away in your day....

now... let's see how much you learned in your thousands of posts here......and all the great "insight" you shared with jgirl...

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hmmm, that sounds like a FISH STORY if I ever heard one! "hey wife, you don't have to call the OWH! He knows!! He just called me and gave me death threats! So don't bother calling and exposing me to the OWH!"

dat is some good bullcrap

[color:#CC0000]WRONG bad advice....guessed WRONG....[/color]
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He is scared to death you will ruin his affair and is probably sneaking out to the garage as we speak to call the OW and warn her so she can pre-empt you.
[color:#CC0000]WRONG bad advice....guessed WRONG....[/color]
He was talking to me...
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Jgirl, pick up the phone NOW and call the OW's house and ask her to put her husband on the phone. Verify EVERYTHING your husband is saying here. He is very foggy and is likely lying about all this.
[color:#CC0000]WRONG bad advice....guessed WRONG....[/color]
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Or is Mr Repentance keeping her away from the computer somehow??
[color:#CC0000]WRONG bad advice....guessed WRONG....[/color]

So...... what are YOUR qualifcations again?

This WRONG advice came out of your dislike of WSs...Simple....

[color:#CC0000]
YOU SHOULD NOT GUESS WHEN PEOPLES LIVES ARE ON THE LINE....
THIS IS NOT A GAME!!!!!!!!!!
[/color]
Now.. THIS time you are dealing with...

A SPOUSE THAT IS HOME
A SPOUSE THAT CONFESSED......WASN'T CAUGHT....
A SPOUSE THAT ALREADY...(THAT'S ALREADY NOW) SAT DOWN WITH HIS WIFE AND WROTE A NO CONTACT LETTER AND MAILED IT...

But... in your infinate wisdom... you can't see the TREMENDOUS difference in this situation because... YOU HATE WSs...so much you are blind... you remind me of another (won't mention her name but it started with a "P") that hated them too...

jgirl.... she'd be flaming you too....believe that!!

So...ML....I will pray tonight that God soften your heart so you can REALLY help.....


Last edited by PLEASE HELP; 03/02/09 03:16 AM. Reason: spelling
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Well then edit again and get "infinate" right as long as you are spell-checking.

MrsW - I thought you were spot on.

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Hi, JGirl and mr_fallenhero.

I'm not as experienced with MB as you are, but if I may recommend something...

This is all very raw to both of you and you each need to process what has happened and what is happening. While you need each other during this healing process, you also need to work within yourself. Therefore I strongly recommend that for now, anyway, you do not post on each other's threads. A comment that you may make to defend your spouse or yourself on the other's thread can send that thread in a completely different direction than what the originator may have intended.

I'm impressed you took matters into your own hands today, JGirl, taking the drive and confronting the OW yourself, and talking with the OW's BH. I can see why you're exhausted.

How are you doing now? And is there anything that the folks here at MB can do for you?


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Originally Posted by jgirl123
My husband told me I cannot tell her husband about the affair or contact her, or he will leave me.

Don't take instructions about what you should and should not do from a crack-addict. The OWH needs to know, and know NOW before your WH and the OW have a chance to spin their own story.


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Er...done and dusted.

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wow--that was a lot of reading!! Thanks to you all --I do want to mention that my husband only confessed AFTER he was caught & after I begged him to tell me & he has only told me bits & pieces, but that is plenty, I assure you. I had to do all of the investigative work on my own--he was very unwilling to tell me anything & in the beginning he lied about everything.Even when I caught him red handed w/ detailed info!!! Just thought I would throw that out there because it was not him just confessing & wanting to make everything all better. In the beginning he DIDNT KNOW if he wanted to even stay married to me. he just said it was OUR problem & when I contacted her, the OW, I thought he was going to come out of his skin!! (she also denied every time)
After everything that has happened, he is extremely angry at me so i dont know where we will go from here.

Frank--I do remember you, thanks for all your help. My husband really respects you. The funny thing is, I didnt even know my husband drank. But it seemed when he got back from his "trip" he was very seasoned at ordering drinks & going out--but the reality of all this is--as much as he thinks I dont know him, I knew something was up while he was still in TX on "the trip"--that is how connected we really are--then he showed me a group pic of all the participants & i actually picked HER out of the crowd!! I knew something was weird when I would call him--he was just very different--women just know--wives just know--

Also want to let you all know that I have not & dont plan on telling any other people or family members about all this. I am way too embarrased as it is.
As far as our daughter goes...she already knows (something) & I told her last night to just not worry so much & go give her daddy & hug & she did just that.
he slept in the guest room last night & I slept w/ our daughter for part of the night--he woke very early & was out of the house by 6a.m.---so here I am--confused. Oh well, I better go get ready for work, I bet I will get sooooo mucg done there!! Ha!!
I will let you know if he brings me the divorce papers.
Frank--May I call you?? I would like to tt you.
Thanks-
JGirl~

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Originally Posted by piojitos
Er...done and dusted.

Yup - just caught up. Wow.

BTW, "Dazed" isn't a FWH yet, and his BS should not be confused about that. Notice that he was prepared to throw his M away if the A was exposed? That's not the actions of a FWH.



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I don't think he was prepared to throw away M if exposed. I think he was trying to coerce BW not to expose with the methods at his disposal. Many if not most WS's make this idle threat.

QED: Since BW did expose and WH is still at home, apparently he lied.

Hmmm...Imagine that - a wayward lying. Go figure.

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Originally Posted by piojitos
I don't think he was prepared to throw away M if exposed. I think he was trying to coerce BW not to expose with the methods at his disposal. Many if not most WS's make this idle threat.

Exactly. He's a WS, NOT a FWS. You've just confirmed the point I was making.





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Originally Posted by PLEASE HELP
A SPOUSE THAT CONFESSED......WASN'T CAUGHT....

WRONGO! laugh

Originally Posted by jgirl
I do want to mention that my husband only confessed AFTER he was caught & after I begged him to tell me & he has only told me bits & pieces, but that is plenty, I assure you. I had to do all of the investigative work on my own--he was very unwilling to tell me anything & in the beginning he lied about everything.Even when I caught him red handed w/ detailed info!!!



blush blush

Originally Posted by PleaseHelp
]But... in your infinate wisdom... you can't see the TREMENDOUS difference in this situation because... YOU HATE WSs...so much you are blind... you remind me of another (won't mention her name but it started with a "P") that hated them too...

jgirl.... she'd be flaming you too....believe that!!

So...ML....I will pray tonight that God soften your heart so you can REALLY help.....

I would suggest that some help is needed; help to train you recognize fogbabble when you see it.


  • " My husband told me I cannot tell her husband about the affair or contact her, or he will leave me."

  • "Dazed: Hey why not take out a commercial on the 10 o'clock news...Make up some flyers and have our daughter hand them out up and down the neighborhood and in the school."

  • "Dazed: Yeah, kids have a right to know about there parents affair....absoletly brillant...How about we start taking donations right now for the years of counseling that will cost..."

  • "Dazed: Taking the path of further exposure is your choice. However, I will see this as only taken as a vendictive action aimed to inflict even more damage. "


Apparently, he LIED about leaving if the affair was exposed to the OWH and when that threat didn't "work", concocted more manipulations. Imagine that, a lying, manipulating wayward! laugh

I guess all those years of "lurking" has not qualified you to tell the difference between a WAYWARD and a FORMER WAYWARD. You can't even recognize FOGBABBLE when you see it. TEEF Maybe you should lurk a little more? smile



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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While getting ready for work & thinking about all I have read--forgot to mention to you all that my husband called me right after the OW husband called him--he told me he gave him death threats & threated to get him fired from his job.---I CALLED THE COUPLE RIGHT BACK & TOLD THE HUSBAND I WOULD CALL THE POLICE FOR THE DEATH THREATS & TOLD THE WIFE SHE WOULD LOSE HER JOB AS WELL IF SHE WAS DUMB ENOUGH TO GO TO THE HR DEPT!!!!!!
I told my husband this & he told me he didnt need a mother & he didnt need my help. forgot to mention that tid bit of the story. So after thinking about it all, that is probably why they called to say they were sorry. Oh well, at least they did that.

Also, to Frank----I know my husband called you as I kept asking him to call you to get some help & advise. I was so happy when he said to me one day--hey, I tt Frank today--I was thrilled!!
So, my thoughts are really screwed up now & I think I sound a little bitter & mad, but I am not--I just wanted to get my points in there that I really am TRYING to work this all out- I feel like the work has been one sided but I do realize that this all takes time & I have been there---as my husband kept reminding me that he has done so little compared to everything I did to him in the past--to him, this seemed like nothing--it was so minimal compared to the horrible acts I did. He is right--I am awful for doing what I did when I had an affair & I will never forgive myself. I went to therapy, heck I even prayed--( i am NOT religious) so, what is done is done & I have to live with it everyday. I love my husband. I want to stay married, but if it cant work, then the sun will still come up & I still have to be a mom & function as a person. (that sucks!)
so thanks again & if you read this (mr fallen) Hope u have a good day. love ya. J

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Originally Posted by jgirl123
While getting ready for work & thinking about all I have read--forgot to mention to you all that my husband called me right after the OW husband called him--he told me he gave him death threats & threated to get him fired from his job.---I CALLED THE COUPLE RIGHT BACK & TOLD THE HUSBAND I WOULD CALL THE POLICE FOR THE DEATH THREATS & TOLD THE WIFE SHE WOULD LOSE HER JOB AS WELL IF SHE WAS DUMB ENOUGH TO GO TO THE HR DEPT!!!!!!

JG, your H and the OW still work together?



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JGirl, you did great yesterday and I applaud you for exposing to the OWH. The OWH was wrong to make death threats, but I would point out that what your H did to that man is immeasurably worse than calling up in intense anger and making death threats. He had an affair with the man's wife, for crying out loud. The OWH made a threat to your H, your H actually caused harm to the OW husband that will take him years from which to recover.

That man was just reacting to the assault that was inflicted on him by your husband, your H has no excuse. Do we punish the rape victim when she kicks her rapist?

I would implore you to call MrsW if you call anyone for help. She knows your H, knows your situation, and knows the difference between a WAYWARD and a former wayward. She is a SUPPORTER of your marriage, not a blind enabler.

She mentioned that she once offered her phone # to you. Do you still have a way to contact her? Hang in there and it will get better! hug


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Jgirl...

You are more than welcome to email me and we can exchange numbers if you would like...Years ago we did talk...Not sure if you remember or not...I can assure both you and Dazed that I am firmly planted on the side of your marriage...I very much want to see you guys recover your marriage completely and wholly this time...

Also, Mr. W and I have been to the MB Weekend, so if you have any questions about that, I'll be glad to answer anything that I can...

My email address is the_wonderings@yahoo.com

I'm rooting for both of you...You did GREAT yesterday Jgirl, and Dazed will thank you for it one of these days...You fought for your husband, marriage and family yesterday - I'm proud of you...WAY TO GO!!! hurray

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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Thanks, MrsW.. smile


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by jgirl123
So after thinking about it all, that is probably why they called to say they were sorry. Oh well, at least they did that.

Appears jgirl123 needs to listen to my saved voice messages from OWH...Message #2 clearly states why he wanted his wife to call. Oh, silly me. I should probably forward them to ML for an authenticity inspection...

As for being caught red handed and confessing... Further clarity regarding the events that took place.
Found was a hand written list of music and a some comments in my brief case.
Each time attempting to come clean, there would be some kind of vengful and emotional out burst. IE- Pulling pictures of us off the walls, tearing them up. Demands I turn in my wedding ring and to take hers back... Moving large number of my personal belongings into our guest room. Pulling numbers out of my cell phone and start cold calling and investigating. If I had not confessed, all there was to go on was a list of music.
Each time I have been openly honest the truth couldn't be handled. So, full disclosure took more than a couple of days to dispense. At this point, all the truth about everything is on the table.
Regardless of what other here think, I want my wife to know I am the one that made a huge mistake and used very bad judgement. I have taken responsiblity upon myself to confess details, end the affair, write and issue the NC letter, suggest MB weekend workshop, and ask for your's and God's forgiveness. Throuh everything I have stayed in the house by yourside even when asked to leave and go be with the OW. Stayed home and did my best to comfort at your lowest point. Yes, there is much healing required for both of us. You know me, I am always a optimist, glass half full guy. I believe in us, and always will. Love is patient, kind, caring, and without demands. That's how I have and will always love you.

As of this point, I am no longer going to participate in this kangaroo courtroom of a website. I will continue to study authorized MB materials and put my faith in God.

Last edited by mr_fallenhero; 03/02/09 10:54 AM.
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