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This is playing on my mind night and day and I'm driving myself and others crazy with it. I need to know from others' experience to ease my mind (hopefully). My ex is also a narcissist. We were married for 13 years and I loved him with all my heart, but I couldn't deal with his habit of constantly viewing porn in all forms (he was very sneaky about it - I always caught him by accident) and making me feel bad about myself and blaming me for everything wrong with our relationship. I left him, but always hoped he would find that he missed me and that we would work things out one day. Well, that's not going to happen. Five months after the divorce was final he met the perfect person for him on-line. She's intelligent, confident and successful. They have been inseparable. This has sent me into a profound depression, as I wonder why I was never good enough. We have a son together so I have some contact with him (not much - only when absolutely necessary). Do you think he will be a reformed man now that he has someone he respects?

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Originally Posted by Grievingdivorcee
Do you think he will be a reformed man now that he has someone he respects?

I doubt it.

AGG


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GD,

My heart hurts for you and what you do to yourself.

Part of grieving is questioning...not his choices, but your own. Please know that there are no perfect partners out there...ever. We all learn together how to partner.

His porn had nothing to do with you and it was all about him and secrets. I hope you go to Alanon meetings, somewhere you can hear what reality is...otherwise, your next relationship may be with an addict of alchohol or spending money...maybe food.

It will be there...because of the way you make others more powerful than they are, and yourself less.

You can't be less. Sure can feel like it. We don't stop what we do for others...we truly change for ourselves...when we discover we aren't broken.

And we can't really manipulate anyone else into feeling, thinking, believing or behaving the way we want them to...can't make them stop drinking, smoking, spending, swearing, dropping their socks or putting the lid down. They choose.

You choose. When you're focus is all over your partner, then you're literally abandoning yourself and will feel extremely abandoned. You left yourself first. You made what he did a reflection of you...even if he says why he thinks he did it, that's about him...you are not powerful enough to make him anything but a sandwich.

We're all powerful and limited human beings. Thing is, we all have the same power and limits. For a reason. By design. We're all equal.

I have no doubt in my mind when your H met you and fell in love with you that someone from the outside saw her the way you do now...only it was you. Not what you experienced...because you refuse to see yourself the same way.

Please look to studying a new way to live, in freedom and real responsibility--so your pain doesn't come from that knife I see you holding in your own hand. Free yourself.

LA

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I completely agree with LA.

His porn addiction has NOTHING to do with the person he's with...you or anyone else.

When I learned of my STBEX's porn addiction, I questioned my self worth too. I wondered, "What is so wrong with me?" ...and "I can't compete with these pornographic images."

You can give him all the love in the world and be the perfect woman (even though nobody is perfect), and he'll still be addicted to porn. Nobody can save him but himself.

I hope this helps. You should focus on you for a change, and take care.

SB

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Originally Posted by Grievingdivorcee
My ex is also a narcissist.

Five months after the divorce was final he met the perfect person for him on-line. She's intelligent, confident and successful. They have been inseparable.

This has sent me into a profound depression, as I wonder why I was never good enough.

Do you think he will be a reformed man now that he has someone he respects?


1 - he's a narcissist

2 - he met the perfect person

3 - you weren't good enough (so you think)

4 - he might reform because he has someone he respects


I'm really sorry but .... I had this funny vision of someone falling in love with himself....the only perfect person for a narcissist might be.....himself.

I know it's a sort of warped take on what you said...but I doubt this other woman is really all that perfect. She may be in the short run but she won't be over the long haul. Probably.


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I have had the exact experience you have had. I was married ten years though. I have 3 kids. During our marriage he was into all kinds/everytype of porn. I too would cathc him and ind out when he least expected it. He even went as far as to have a profile on and adult web site in order to receive it! He used a different phot though. It wears on you over time. I finally felt so disrespected from him and slowly fell out of love with him. I did try to make it work and believe him when he promised he would stop it and tell me how it had nothing to do with me etc. etc. Well, I separated last March, although still saw him. I decided in August to div since I did not see that he was making any progress. He was still negative, not patient and continued to have issues with porn. Well, the divorce was official in Aug. Right after we div he immediately started dating different women he met online on some site. He was flying back and forth different places. I just found out last night that he is getting married on March 9 in Vegas. We have only been divorced for 7n months and he has only known this lady (41 yrs) he is 36 yrs old, has only known each other for 3.5 months. I have not seen her or met her, but she is tall, blond. Everything he probably wanted me to be (Im a brunette). I think he thinks he is goiing to find happiness, but I think he will be surprised. There is no way he could do a 360 and change all his bad ways so fast. He is jumpin the gun big time. I think you are better off without him. Plus, like the lady who is marrying my ex, I am sure he has not told her of his addiction and his narcisissm. I feel bad for her. I think at some point your ex will realize what he lost. In a way I feel relieved mine is getting married, so i dont have to think/worry about him anymore. I am kinda hurt that he is marrying so fst, but then again, I divorced him for the right reasons and that just shows what he is truly like.

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At this point, I wouldn't worry about him. He sounds like he is out for hisself, and if she does not mind his selfish behavior, this she is the right one for now. It sounds like a low level movie.

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1. His addiction to porn
2. She's intelligent, confident, successful

Is there a link?
No.

She's new, that's why they are inseparable.
Addicts don't change unless they face their self destroying habits.

There's a better life for you. Take time to heal, to love yourself for who you are. When you find out you can be an even better person without him, you'll realise it's his loss and your gain.

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Quote
Five months after the divorce was final he met the perfect person for him on-line. She's intelligent, confident and successful. They have been inseparable. This has sent me into a profound depression, as I wonder why I was never good enough.

Have you met her? If not, how do you know the statements your X has made are true? do you know that perfect will stand the test of time???

Read up on codependence. . . Your self worth has nothing to do with statements your X made about someone else. . Please get individual counseling to address your issues. You have an unhealthy view of the world and yourself.

please, get some help.

wiftty


Learning from your own mistakes creates experience, learning from books creates knowledge, combining the two together creates wisdom => You start with a full bag of luck, and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
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Originally Posted by Grievingdivorcee
This is playing on my mind night and day and I'm driving myself and others crazy with it. I need to know from others' experience to ease my mind (hopefully). My ex is also a narcissist. ... I left him, but always hoped he would find that he missed me and that we would work things out one day. Well, that's not going to happen. Five months after the divorce was final he met the perfect person for him on-line. She's intelligent, confident and successful. They have been inseparable. This has sent me into a profound depression, as I wonder why I was never good enough.

You're not alone in questioning your worth based on the actions of your ex. It bothers me that mine would expend all her energy (by her own admission) trying to save her "friendship" with OM and yet not lift a finger to try and save our marriage. This sent a message to me that I was worthless. But now I feel differently. I recognize that her choices were about what was wrong with her, not me. Find your strengths and recognize what your talents are.


BH (Me): 33, XWW: 33
Married 1999, No kids
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D-Day: 06/07
Divorced: 04/09
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This thread title caught my eye. The original poster hasn't responded, but someone else may benefit from this thread.

My heart also hurts badly for Grieving Divorcee. I have definitely been where she was at. My husband cheated and looked at porn over the course of our relationship, and I found out about it all a few years ago. I am STILL trying to heal from that damage.

When I found out, I INTERNALIZED it all, thinking that I wasn't good enough. Those thoughts took a HUGE toll on me emotionally and physically for the longest time. It has only been recently that I've learned better.

You say that his new VICTIM is confident, intelligent and successful. I'm willing to bet you felt that way about yourself too before your husband tore you down.

It's hard to feel confident when your husband lusts after other women.

It's hard to be successful when you're feeling emotionally weighed down and "compared to other women". It's hard to have the energy to be successful when you're in an unhealthy marriage with a man who doesn't respect you.

It's hard to to realize you are intelligent if your husband tells you that "you don't know what the heck you're talking about". He was gaslighting you into thinking there's something about you that is lacking.

What is lacking is in HIM. Not you. He doesn't know how to respect women. He doesn't know how to commit to a marriage. He doesn't know how to be honest or faithful. He doesn't know how to be intimate with someone because he had sooooo much to hide.

He was looking for approval and self esteem in other women, no doubt, instead of DOING THINGS TO BRING HIMSELF ESTEEM BY DOING THE RIGHT THINGS, THE THINGS THAT CAN BE RESPECTED.

If you haven't checked out "recoverynation.com", please do so. They have a partner's section that will help you heal from this nightmare.

Unless you X has done some serious personal work on himself, this new relationship of his will suffer as well. Unfortunately, it takes awhile to see all of this.

Your X was selfish. Everything was about him. I made the mistake of letting my husband gaslight me into thinking I was the one with the problem. NOT ANYMORE. I didn't speak up, or leave, when I knew in my gut that he treated me wrongly and disrespectfully.

Do things for you that make you proud of yourself and eventually you will begin to build your self esteem back up.

No woman will ever be "good enough" for this man if he is still the same person. It's not necessarily picking the right person, it's being the right person that makes a good marriage.


Last edited by mopey; 03/02/09 03:39 PM.

Husband was unfaithful to me before and after our marriage, at least 7 times. I found out 13 yrs into the marriage. Trickle truth for an entire year. Several different d-days, so it was more like a d-year. Difficult recovery.



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Originally Posted by Grievingdivorcee
This has sent me into a profound depression, as I wonder why I was never good enough. We have a son together so I have some contact with him (not much - only when absolutely necessary). Do you think he will be a reformed man now that he has someone he respects?

Speaking as a man I can tell you that it has nothing to do with you or how attractive you are. All married men struggle with this desire of variety. It wouldn't matter if you were the most gorgeous beautiful woman in the world. Consider all the movie stars whose husbands cheat on them. It has nothing to do with you or how attractive you are.

It has everything to do with his maturity and ability to manage these impulses which every man struggles with.

And to answer your question: No, a porn addict can't change because he meets someone he respects. She's new so his desire for variety will be in check for a while. But a year or two and he'll need his fix.

You should also understand that there are nearly no men who don't use porn at all when married for more than 2 or 3 years. A normal guy just uses it infrequently.

Anyway, my point is it has NOTHING to do with you.


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Reading things like that, that there are nearly no men who do not use porn makes me want to say stuff it then, whats the point in being married or trying to have a relationship with a man if they're just all going to do this.

Its so wrong to me to be getting fulfillment looking at other naked women when you have a willing wife who would do anything for you. (Can you tell this has been an issue for us?)

Honestly, if there is no hope that my husband (or any other man I could meet) will never use porn then I don't want to be married.

This makes me feel so hopeless.


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I have questioned this also.... my husband and I have been together 25 years, since we were 15..He started cheating on me 4 years ago and the other womens husband called, I forgave him that one but now he has had another realationship for the last 2 years and we tried to work it out but how do you work something out when he cant stop having communication with her and lord knows what else? I believe the porn caused him to actually have the sex he is so into the internet thing..

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Originally Posted by MowTin
Originally Posted by Grievingdivorcee
This has sent me into a profound depression, as I wonder why I was never good enough. We have a son together so I have some contact with him (not much - only when absolutely necessary). Do you think he will be a reformed man now that he has someone he respects?

Speaking as a man I can tell you that it has nothing to do with you or how attractive you are. All married men struggle with this desire of variety. It wouldn't matter if you were the most gorgeous beautiful woman in the world. Consider all the movie stars whose husbands cheat on them. It has nothing to do with you or how attractive you are.

It has everything to do with his maturity and ability to manage these impulses which every man struggles with.

And to answer your question: No, a porn addict can't change because he meets someone he respects. She's new so his desire for variety will be in check for a while. But a year or two and he'll need his fix.

You should also understand that there are nearly no men who don't use porn at all when married for more than 2 or 3 years. A normal guy just uses it infrequently.

Anyway, my point is it has NOTHING to do with you.

Certainly, I believe many of men partake in this sinful addiction, but do not think it's normal for a 'normal' guy to use it infrequently? I am unsure how much % of married men utilize porn, but would think it is somewhere around 50%.

What's wrong is wrong, plain and simple. The problem is somewhere over the past 50 years we have gone to accept less in the US. This includes the use of porn being more tolerable, divorce is more accepted, adultery is no longer abhorred, etc. It is a sad state for our society and we need to stand up for what we believe.

I agree that it does make it very scary to consider the marriage covenant again seeing all the negative.


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Originally Posted by MowTin
She's new so his desire for variety will be in check for a while. But a year or two and he'll need his fix.

Year or two he'll need his fix? Try day or two, or week or two at the most.

Any addict cannot change until the addicted person decides to change.

People with addiction choose to self medicate. Men who self medicate using porn *USE* women to get high. There's nothing about struggling with variety about that. It's going around, seeing women as various body parts, (not as people, but as sexual objects) thinking about that, going home, viewing porn and masturbating to numb themselves from feeling. Then the shame sets in. Rinse, lather, and repeat. It really doesn't have much to do with control. It has much more to do about avoiding intimacy (non-sexual and sexual) and going through life not feeling a damn thing.

Looking at porn is neither right or wrong, unless addiction is involved. It matters how both parties feel about it.

I do feel, that this (sex addiction) going to be a HUGE problem, that we are only at the tip of the iceburg now. We're seeing the first generation of young adult men (well and women), who have only been raised with the internet, and probably not much direction in it's use. Who've gotten their sexual values from porn.

My husband is a recovering sex addict. One of the reasons why I chose to stay with him, as least now I know he has an issue with sex addiction, and well, now it's been addressed. My risk now lies in whether or not he will relapse.

If anyone here is interested in more info about sex addiction, read anything by Patrick Carnes. Besides recovery nation, there's another online site No-porn.com. Also there's a few 12 step groups that help SO's of SA's.





Last edited by inrecoverynow; 03/03/09 06:52 AM.
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I think the default position once you're married though should be that you don't use porn, unless your spouse specifically tells you that its fine, and really sexual experiences should be shared to make the best of the chance to add to each others love banks.

I wouldn't have a problem even now if my hubby came to me and said what do you think about us watching this and seeing what happens, but him watching it alone, secretly is wrong. I can't bear to think that no matter what he tells me that he won't do this that other men are of the opinion that he's just lying because every guy does it?

Where does that leave me? Believing my husband is somehow different to every other man, or that the men posting are not representative, or that he's lying to me to keep me happy?


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Originally Posted by Rosycheeks
Reading things like that, that there are nearly no men who do not use porn makes me want to say stuff it then, whats the point in being married or trying to have a relationship with a man if they're just all going to do this.

Its so wrong to me to be getting fulfillment looking at other naked women when you have a willing wife who would do anything for you. (Can you tell this has been an issue for us?)

Honestly, if there is no hope that my husband (or any other man I could meet) will never use porn then I don't want to be married.

This makes me feel so hopeless.

You shouldn't feel hopeless.

You're only seeing the bad and not the good.

Think about it this way. Your husband is driven by this intense irrational desire to sleep with other women. But he doesn't act on it. He fights it with all his being. He remains faithful to you because he loves you. And it's not an empty love or just some sentiment it's a love he fights for every day.

He's not with you because you're the sexiest woman in world. He's with you because he loves the person. Sure he desires these sexy women you see in those websites and magazines but he would never act on those desires because you're the one he loves.

If you obsesss too much about your husband's fantasy life then you'll drive yourself crazy.

NOTE: I'm NOT talking about porn addiction. That's a serious matter that needs treatment.


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Yep, I will drive myself crazy. I might just drive myself divorced. Unfortunately since I have a high sex drive myself and he has refused me in the past but still looked at porn, I don't feel as attractive to him as some slut on screen.

I have an active fantasy life myself, which I share with him all the time but have always had an absolute boundary that nobody but my husband features. Because anything other is wrong to me and I have always found him utterly irresistable.

We've been trying to make a commitment to be totally open and honest with each other, but he tells me that he never finds another woman attractive in anything other than a glance on the street kind of way. I can't bear the thought that he's still lying to me. Its been a year since I found out about his porn use and I still want to puke every time I think of it. Its destroyed so much of my safety and self esteem in our marriage.

We are building a better marriage but honestly, I do not want to and will never agree to being married to a man who uses porn secretly now. Being told its inevitable at some point makes me want to give up now.


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Originally Posted by MowTin
Think about it this way. Your husband is driven by this intense irrational desire to sleep with other women. But he doesn't act on it. He fights it with all his being. He remains faithful to you because he loves you.

But choosing to use porn IS acting on it, its a behaviour not a feeling and can be controlled.


Me: 32
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Married 9 years, together 12.
Two little girls, 7 and 3.
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