:crosseyedcrazy:

That was a bad promise...The only thing worse than making a bad promise is keeping a bad promise...

Mrs. W

Re: Where do I go from here? [Re: hockeymom]
Dr. Harley Dr. Harley
#2160600 - 11/18/08 05:46 PM


Registered: 11/16/00
Posts: 2221


"I'm in the process of rewriting "Surviving an Affair" to add information about plan B. Some of the main points are as follows:

Whether in plan A or B, the world should know about your husband's affair. All of your relatives, your friends, your children, and the licensing board for your husband's lover. In some states a licensing board will revoke a license if a counselor is having an affair with a married person, client or not. This is because it's well known that affairs hurt families, especially children. And counselors know better than to have an affair.

The reason for the wide exposure is not to hurt the unfaithful spouse, but rather to end the fantasy. Your husband's secret second life made his affair possible, and the more you can to to make it public, the easier it is for him to see the damage he's doing. Keeping it secret does damage, but few know about it. Making it public helps everyone, including the unfaithful spouse and lover, see the affair for what it really is.

<snip unrelated>
When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery."

http://www.marriagebuilde...umber=2160385#Post2160385 here

another:

"While most affairs die a natural death in less than two years, there are some that take much longer to die. That's one of the primary reasons that my first rule in surviving an affair is to never see or talk to the lover again -- even if the affair seems to have died a natural death. An affair can rekindle after it seems to be over. And to guarantee complete separation between the unfaithful spouse and the lover, extraordinary precautions must be taken, such as providing radical accountability and transparency. In many cases, I've encouraged couples I've counseled to change jobs or even move to another state to help create permanent separation.

Another suggestion I make to a couple struggling to restore their marriage after one of them had an affair is to make the affair public. Everyone should know what happened -- children, relatives, friends, and especially the children and spouse of the lover -- so that the affair is exposed to the light of day. What often makes affairs appealing is that it is done in secret. Most affairs become very unappealing once everyone knows about it.

So whether an affair is a one night stand, or has been going on for years, the basic rule for ending them are the same -- extraordinary precautions to guarantee permanent separation. But I will admit that the precautions used for long-term affairs are usually more extraordinary than those used for short-term affairs. I've helped many spouses overcome affairs that have lasted over ten years, but none of them have been easy. "

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr. here

The only thing WORSE than making a bad promise, is KEEPING a bad promise. Monc, your FIL is only trying to protect his DD's reputation. You are trying to save your marriage. If you lose sight of that in your approval seeking, you will LOSE your marriage. The goal here is save your marriage, not to appease your FIL. Keep in mind that Dr Harley knows how to save marriages - YOUR FIL DOES NOT.

Dr. Harley says this about exposure:

"When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery"

Waiting it out means that it gets deeper entrenched, you riskher getting pregnant or an STD and you lose your love for her and make it harder to overcome in R.

Agreed. How does that explain her welcoming my H and his MOW (at the time) into her home for my brother's wedding reception?

MS, I have no idea what this has to do with the subject at hand. My goal here is to help this young man. Please help us stay on that track. This thread is about HIM and his problems.

so Monc, I gotto ask you, How's "plan Monc" working out for you??

You've been given countless hours of how to do Dr. Harley's plan the right way, and yet, you continue to find objection after objection as to why you should not do it.

Have you studied these methods for over 35 years? Do you have your PHD in physchology? Have you ever saved someone else's M?
Have you figured out the difference between your left hand and your right hand?

Yet YOU KNOW that following this plan will destroy your M! You have as much capacity to save your M as do your WW's doting FIL and MIL. It is OBVIOUS that is where she got the selfish, self entitled perspective that she was entitled to have an A behind your back in the first place. That and your surrender to her impish and childish will. I'm sure her parents did the same. That is why you should stop, and protect their DD from the guilt and shame she so rightfully deserves.

Couple of the best here have wasted their time and breath on you, you cannot change your fear. A marriage is often won back by a warrior, because your M is under assault. It will NEVER be won back by a dreamer and an appeaser.

ETA: What would your next step be if you weren't afraid?

Good Luck with YOUR plan,
All Blessings,
Jerry

There's this for a start. From Q&A More later.

But I am one of the very few that advocate the revelation of affairs at all costs, even when the wayward spouse has no feelings of guilt or depression to overcome. I believe that honesty is so essential to the success of marriage, that hiding past infidelity makes a marriage dishonest, preventing emotional closeness and intimacy.

It isn't honesty that causes the pain, it's the affair. Honesty is simply revealing truth to the victim. Those who advocate dishonesty regarding infidelity assume that the truth will cause such irreparable harm, that it's in the best interest of a victimized spouse to go through life with the illusion of fidelity.

It's patronizing to think that a spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Anyone who assumes that their spouse cannot handle truth is being incredibly disrespectful, manipulative and in the final analysis, dangerous. How little you must think of your spouse when you try to protect him or her from the truth.

It's not only patronizing, but it's also false to assume that your spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Illusions do not make us happy, they cause us to wander through life, bumping into barriers that are invisible to us because of the illusion that is created. Truth, on the other hand, reveals those barriers, and sheds light on them so that we can see well enough to overcome them. The unsuspecting spouse of an unfaithful husband or wife wonders why their marriage is not more fulfilling and more intimate. Knowledge of an affair would make it clear why all efforts have failed.

After revealing an affair, your spouse will no longer trust you. But lack of trust does not ruin a marriage, it's the lack of care and protection that ruins marriages. Your spouse should not trust you, and the sooner your spouse realizes it, the better.

Monc,

I understand to an extent. My exww's parents didn't want to hear what I had to say or see the proof that I had for them.

Nevertheless, exposure had to be done.

Now, that being said, you've been warned that you can't count on their support and that they will stick by their daughter over you because you're not family.

Sorry, you're not.

You're not blood. Only in America do we have this "mom" and "dad" thing for inlaws.

Not so in other parts of the world. It's understood that the MIL and FIL are "her" family and/or "his" family.

Monc, againg, you have to understand that this is not easy and that her parent's attitude towards you is irrelevant. You have inlaws that don't care or will side with their daughter. They are enablers. It's not surprising that she married an enabler considering your fear at upsetting a woman who is openly screwing another man and you're afraid of telling others she's doing so.

They don't want to hear the truth. Well your attitude should be, "Look, you can stick your head in the sand or hear the truth. Your daughter is having an affair and destroying her marriage and forsaking your vows. You can either side with her or do the right thing and encourage her to do the right thing."

Done, end of conversation.

Who gives a rat's a$$ about them at this point when they are enabling your wife's affair?

Wake up!

Now, expose to OM's family. THAT has a higher chance of ending things.

Exposure works.

You have women on here who are former waywards that are telling you what to do. You have men who have been in your shoes telling you what they wish they had done when they look back and you are repeating the mistakes they made. Guess where most of us are that didn't take a hard stand?

Divorced, separated from our kids, and in financial straights because the exww royally hosed us because we let them.

That's you and that's the path you're on.

The second you realize that life will be fine and even better without this cheating woman in your life, the better you'll be. Indifference to all of this is the best gift you could ever achieve.

Ironically, THAT is when she'll likely wake up.

One more thought:

I had a counselor who encouraged me to play along with her for a time and that this was some weird game for her and that likely come back if I played along and did as she asked.

Doing that got me nothing but divorced and broke and unemployed. I basically gave her all she wanted and asked for and allowed myself to be hosed.

And they are not your family. They simply aren't. You had your own parents. THAT is your family.

These people are showing their true colors. YOu're disposable to them over their cheating daughter.

If you don't stop the affair, you HAVE lost your family.

It was more that they didn't want to see me ostracized for attempting something they thought was completely absurd.

It's over, she want's a divorce.

Over the two family I did tell her about.

Why do the most faithful people always get screwed? I still love her and am...kind of just sad at the moment. I should be crying.

My WW told me the same thing when I exposed to OMW. Here it is 3 1/2 months since then and she still hasnt filed.

If she does file, delay it.

Do you understand that pretty much every wayward says that at one time or another? That is not the exception, but rather the rule...Your situation is NOT unique in the least...

If you want a chance at saving the marriage then expose...Call OM's mother and anybody else on his side of things...

As others have pointed out, you are very young with no children...You may be best off cutting bait at this point, but that is entirely up to you...

What do you hope to gain by being here on the MB board if you aren't going to follow the advice you are given Monc?

Mrs. W

By the way, all waywards say they want a divorce after any exposure...it's in the script...she is following it to the letter...If you want to kill the affair keep exposing...

Mrs. W

Let me see...
She's been lying to you for quite a while now. She denied actually having an affair and said that exposure would mean the end of your marriage so you believe her...

Monc, my wife told me she wanted a divorce. She told me there was no way she would give up OM. She told me she hadn't loved me in 20 years, in fact she never really loved me. She told me she married me for the wrong reasons, that she married me too young, before she knew who she was, who I was, what love was...

It's part of the script, man. EVERY wayward says those things..If you give them enough time, they'll say all of them.

Oh, and exposure?

"I was thinking of giving us a second chance, but not now."
"I thought about trying to work this out but you blew any chance of that."
"I could never trust you ever again after what you've done." I always laugh at this one...The cheater can't trust the cheated any more...
When they become wayward, they get a membership card and a book of idiotic things to say. It's part of the package. Just ignore it...

But now the 64 thousand dollar question...

What do YOU want?

Mark

PS We've been married almost 36 years, BTW. D-day was almost 3 years ago and my wife just came and kissed me goodnight while I was typing all of that...

Silly waywards...

Aint it the truth.

My WW told me the day after I told OMW that "I thought I would grow my love back for you and I have decided I wont". She also talked about how could I do this to her. If I really wanted her back I wouldnt have done this. She cant trust me.


The point is Monc, she will get over it. If she doesnt...that isnt what done it anyways. She's just using any excuse to play the victim role and to frighten you.

Monc, why don't you spend some time reading some of the other threads here, from their beginning, to see how EVERY OTHER BETRAYED SPOUSE has gone through the exact same thing you're going through - all the 'how could you do this' and 'you've ruined everything' and 'that's it I'm through'...

They ALL say the exact same thing. If we had had time, we could have printed it all here for you so you'd be prepared for it, BEFORE she said it to you.