What do you do with this desperation? You work on the other part of Plan A, the part where you fix what was wrong with the M.

What part did you play in the demise of the M?

You've only hinted at some things. Does she have reasonable complaints about you? Work on fixing those...

Make yourself worthy of winning her back...

Monc, this is very important. If you get back together, she has to see a reason to stay. You may have been half of the problem.

(but that doesn't mean you let her have a pass on not being transparent about her actions and working NC)

Baron,

I'm starting to see that. She's taking steps now to completely cut me off socially so that I can't communicate wit her. She just removed me from Facebook and Myspace as well as my brother and his wife.

All through the one "withdrawal" period where they first broke up she never told me what happened and so was dead inside. She said when he came back she came alive again. She just won't here me when I said that sounds like an addiction.

Catperson, I've said the apartment is being let go and we are both moving into our own places.

Here response to everything is like this is a romance novel...and I'm the bad guy who won't let her go.

You're about to have Plan B imposed on you.

My friend, it's time to move away from the denial and accept that this is truly over.

Shield yourself from her abuse, expose to the last remaining folks, get yourself a good lawyer. File first on the ground of adultery and martial misconduct.

Be ruthless.

Go quiet in the meantime and start carrying on with your life.

Monc,

Those of us who have fought so hard to save our marriage whether we succeeded or not tend to be passionate about not giving up because we ourselves often wanted to do just that. For anyone who was ready to throw in the towel and then wound up in a recovered marriage or at least in a marriage in recovery, it is very hard to advise someone to just cut his or her losses and move on...

And yet that is what I advise you do...

You are still floundering, grasping at anything you can think of and looking for that magic bullet that will right the world that has suddenly turned upside down. This is the EASY part...Recovery is where it gets hard...

As a wise adviser around here is fond of saying, let's look at the data...

* You are both pretty young
* You have no children together
* You can identify issues with the relationship from the beginning
* You pretty much admit that your main reason for wanting to save this marriage is to avoid failure (vows meant something special to you etc)
* Your marriage isn't that entrenched because it is still pretty new
* You have little in the way of assets that need to be divided and even less that she seems to want from you in a settlement


And these are the positive things you have going for you... :MrEEk:

Not every marriage can be saved and more importantly not every marriage should be saved.

Are you 100% certain that you can move beyond this and build a great marriage with this woman?

Do you have a plan (a specific set of things you can do, in sequence no matter what she says, does or does not do) to save your marriage?

Do you know what you will need from her in order to feel like you have a marriage and not just a relationship that is on the verge of collapse?

Do you think that you would be able to have a family with her and know that your children will be taken care of whether or not you are there at all times?

I'm not asking if you think she can change in the person you want, but if you want to live the rest of your life with who she is...

Mark

Yeah, and email me to let me know where you are in Texas. You need my attorney since your wife is the way she is right now. He will take excellent care of you. I just hope you are in one of the "right" counties.

Take care,

Charlotte

I think he's up north, Charlotte. He mentioned San Marcos, and a 'trip' to Houston.

I know your intentions are meant well Baron.

I know part of this is due to my vows...but it's that from this site I know what and how to figure out what we both need.

Unfortunately she laughed at me when I told her I wanted to meet her emotional needs.

This danger and fear of ruining the other mans life through talking to his mother again, is a reaction.

I just don't know how to proceed with it. If I give her a list of things that I want so that I don't call the OM's mother again, that would be a form of blackmail correct? She's trying to create a case to call blackmail on me because she knows I'm also desperate in my own way.

She also thinks I'm being vindictive by calling her...and she knows me. She knows vindictive is not my nature.

This almost seems like a chance to bargain with her...to get her to the discussion table because since I found out about the affair she's not been at the table.

At least... I missed my opportunty to bring her to the table before because I didn't know what to do or how to proceed such as this site directs.

I was too needy after discovery. I was clingy and everything that looked weak.


I have a lawyer in hand for advice. Thanks.

OK, so this is your very lame excuse for not fulfilling her EN's?

Sorry for this, but if my H gave up so easily and made such flimsy excuses for not acting in ways that would try to make me happy, we would not be married any longer.

You can try harder...

So?

Which of you has their full mental faculties at this time? Are you going to let a fog-filled alien dictate your relationship?

Quit being a wimp.

She will NEVER respect or WANT you if you continue giving in every time she gets petulant, whines, glares, or yells. She will HATE you for being such a spineless schlub. Any woman would. It is in our DNA to need our man to be strong. DNA.

Look at how fast she turned around as soon as you showed a backbone. Now it has retreated back into your nether regions. So she has reverted back to hating you.

I really don't think you are spending very much time thinking; merely feeling. Which does you absolutely.no.good. So let's get some things straight.

• You do NOT try to reason with a WW. There is no human in that brain - only a fog-wrapped alien addict bent on maintaining access to the drug of OM in any way possible.
  
• You DO NOT give her a list of things you want SO THAT YOU DON'T CALL OM'S MOM. You give her a list of things that would make you CONSIDER letting her stay in your life. Got it? You couldn't care less what happens to OM and/or his mom. You DO care that your own wife is schtupping another man while married to you. Outrageous! is what you should be feeling right now, not concerned if OM gets his funding cut off. He is an ant, an amoeba, a cell; beneath you in every shape and form.
  
• You are NOT desperate. You are NOT blackmailing anyone. You ARE telling her what it takes for you to be willing to FORGIVE her. Got it?
  
• Who gives a flip if she thinks you are being vindictive? YOU sure don't. You don't even care what she thinks at this point because she has betrayed you, the ultimate betrayal, and you are trying REALLY REALLY hard not to HATE her at this point. Thus the list of things that she will have to do, if she has any intention of DESERVING your forgiveness. Got it?
  
• You do NOT bargain with a crack heroin alien addict. You DICTATE RULES for continued dialogue with you. You will remain in contact with OM's mother for as long as your alien wife remains in contact with OM. PERIOD. Got it?
  

Answer this. Did your WW NOT turn tables and start working WITH you the minute she realized you had grown a spine and started running the show? Did you not get the result you wanted when you followed our advice? In record time, may I add?

Then KEEP listening to us, follow our advice, and man up! Act like a man, not a woman. Demand her respect or kick her a$$ out on the curb. Period. There is no in-between.

And if you choose any in-between....you get the hell you deserve with her.

What? I was trying to introduce the concept to her... Geez assume much?

To talk about what she wanted.

Liked that last post cat.

There is talk and there is action...

If all you are going to do is talk about it...

then laughing is all you will hear.

What have you done to fulfill her EN's up till now?

Monk,

What do you know about OM? The reason I ask is I fear that you don't, at this point, really know what your WW's top EN's are.
But, rest assured, your WW's OM does know. I suspect you are a good man who has been missing the mark for years because you don't really know your WW enough.

You wouldn't be the first or last spouse to do so. That's why A's are so prevelant in M's. Aproaches 55% of all M's. That is a pretty depressing thouht, but it would seem to be true. For the record, I have been M'd 39 years. That's 13 years before you were born. Both of my sons are at least 10 years older than you.
But if I thought that an A would strike my M while we we professing vows to each other, I would have never said "I DO", but rather "HECK NO."

Things can and often do go sour in a M, But it is not an excuse for an A. Excuses are a33holes, everybody's got one.

Having said the above, I question if there is a chance for this M to recover? If your WW would return to the M, what would you do? Would you put her in a glass cage and guard her like the crown jewels? Isn't she responsible to guard you and your M in the same mannor and fashion as you? Ask yourself truly, under the current state of mind that she is in, is she ever going to be capable of doing that in a way that you can be happy and confident of that?

I just wonder sometimes, at such a young age, why you can't see that this decision to marry, may have been a horrible mistake. Im my case, we had been M'd and raised a family for nearly 32 years. We both had a huge stake and investment in our lives dedicated to each other. Doesn't decrease the pain, but, makes R a more plausible solution and desire.

From Dr Harley:

So Monk, there needs to be something here that Dr David Carder qoutes in his book entitiled "Torn Assunder," called "Godly Sorrow" on the part of the betrayer. Without it, there will never be R. Does this sound even remotely close to what your WW is offering you.

I'm just saying..........
Your choice, in spite of what your wounded heart is telling you......

I do wish you all the best.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Shinethrough, how old were you on marriage day?



I wouldn't put her in a glass cage. I'd talk to her and she'd talk to me and we would learn how to stand back to back guarding each others flanks.

We BOTH failed to guard our marriage properly. We both failed at that. We both saw the signs but looked away. Our fairy tale couldn't be disturbed or else... So we both looked away.

And we are paying the price for our own fantasy.

We were two twenty year old kids that no one, including our parents, gave a snowballs chance in he)) that we could ever survive beyound 3 to 5 years.

Our M has since outlived our parents and continues, in spite of trauma beyond description over her betrayal. so you see, I am not an unbeliever. But it has not come without a cost. Guess I would have been outa here a long time ago if it didn't.

Just wondering if you, at such a young age, are going to be able to bear the cost of this betrayal. It will take the rest of your lifetime, in ways that you cannot yet conceive. I'm too old to worry about it. Perhaps that insulates me in many ways.

I do truly hope you find your answers, Monc, really I do.

All blessings,
Jerry

I know that he is dominant. He is charming and charismatic. He is not tender. He is intelligent. He is physically fit. He is confidant. He is self assured. He does what he wants. He is taller than my wife. He shares theater with her. He also learned singing from her. They talk a great deal about the same topics. Music and theater...but that is it(nothing broader). I am/was beginning to come around to talking to her about those things...but she cut me out before I really got to fill that EN.

I know that he gives her full attention...I used to. I know he talks to her endlessly...I used to. Theirs is on the same subject all the time. I know that my WW is fantasizing about a future with the OM. I know that she did so with me.

The WW and the OM are identical really in many ways. Personality and interests. I hear that is a bombshell waiting to explode from my counselor. *shrug*

When they talk it's often about themselves and what they are doing. I didn't ever communicate much about what I was doing to her.

So Communication is definitely a big one for her...identifying is important as well. I saw that and before things went to hell and I lost it over the OM still being in the picture, we were working towards covering that EN actually.

The sad part was that the OM left the picture at one point leaving my WW in withdrawal. While all my efforts were not being put into her Love Bank. I didn't know this...and then the OM came back and nothing could go in anymore as well.

Although I've been the one working to fulfill her's right now...mostly because I realize that she is out there on a tether and needs to see me fulfilling them. I am aware that at some point my Taker will want in return...but my taker is not demanding on others as much as...antisocial. I just like to be alone sometimes, which I could achieve when she's busy and just realize that when she's home I should be giving.

The EN's he might fulfill are opposites of what I provide.

I've been pretty poor about meeting her EN's and now I get it.

I wish she would have filled out that EN worksheet. It upset me that I couldn't get her too. Would have helped a [censored] load. Her response was that if I didn't know her that well by now, we shouldn't be married then. This was...Early January.Since the OM came back she's been belligerent for the most part.

You have wisdom to insulate you.

I've got nothing but a whole lot of nothing below me. Except you guys.

FYI: I'm thinking some things through right now. Trying to figure out how to keep my brain from freezing when I try to talk to my WW next about the OM's mother and what I expect.

Monc, you need to do this from a position of ANGER! Aren't you mad at being betrayed? You should be!

YOU are the victim here. NOT her. GET that through your head, ok? You have GOT to be mad! Indignant. Skeptical. Irritated.

Any time you talk to her, you need to do it from a position of amazement that she would do this to you, ok?