OM's mother, as harsh as she may be, is not going to save your M. It may well break up the A, which is a critical first step, but in will not reconsile your M.

Monc, as much as you have floundered here, your M stand a chance. But you have got to see the true reality that is a very slim chance at best. In Plan A you have got to work on yourself and improving who you are. That way, if your M doesn't survive, you will still have become a better and more attractive person, to someone who does know how to protect against their own weakness, and has much better boundaries than does your WW.

It's the 45% of those who don't cheat, that we fail to talk about!

Get busy making yourself a better person, you cannot order your WW to stop seeing OM. That is her choice to make. But you can morph yourself into something, I believe, your WW will kick her [censored] for ever leaving.

God Bless,
Jerry

Monc,

I see two things that are working against you right now, well more than two, but two that YOU have control over...

First is the fact that you seem to have this notion that you and your wife were MEANT to be together, that you were put together by some mystical force or kismet or providence...

But the feeling of "love" is merely a response to stimulus caused by having our ENs met. You and your wife fell in love because you met each others ENs and in so doing began to foster in each other a feeling of well being and satisfaction or "happiness" that once established was present just by being together. Not romatic at all is it?

But that is how your wife fell in love with OM as well. The thing is she let it happen and did not protect your marriage or herself from his meeting those ENs, maybe because she hadn't had them met by you in quite a while but maybe just because she didn't know any better. And NOW she feels like it was something magical, kismet, providence that brought THEM together.

The second thing I see here is that you insist that if you could just reason with her, explain to her the right way that what she is doing is wrong, because your were MEANT TO BE, after all, that everything would work out for the better and things would become like they should be.

I have no idea how much you have read here on this site, but almost any thread started by a betrayed husband takes the same course most of the time. The begging and pleading and whining is followed by attempts to educate the wayward wife into doing what is right.

Eventually some guys understand that to fix what's wrong with your marriage you have to actually have a marriage and in order to have one you have to either save the one you have or get a new one with somebody else. Those that never reach that point divorce, whine about it and seldom come back here for updates since they feel that MB let them down because we couldn't help them save their marriages.

I have news for you...NOBODY here can save your marriage. You MIGHT be able to save it, but you have to know how to do it and the best way to learn that is to read more than just the answers to the questions you can dream up.

1) You can't fix anything right now as it applies to your WW
2) You have to fight the affair, not OM, not your WW, the AFFAIR.
3) WW and OM will not help you in any way, shape or form.
4) You need to have a plan of action, not a bunch of things to do as you get around to them, or things to try one at a time till you hit the magic button (there is NO magic button) but a unified, one step after another, bonafide PLAN.
5) You need to KNOW what your wife's top 3 or 4 ENs are. You can guess; you can try different things; you can identify what your own top ENs are and try to translate them into hers, but the only thing that will work is to actually identify her ENs so that YOU can start meeting them.
6) You need to stop trying to scare her, coerce her or shame her into returning to you. You also need to stop trying to educate her, teach her and pressure her into coming home.
7) You need to look deep inside yourself and identify those things that you know are love busters. (Not as hard as you might think considering the list and description of just about every one known is on this site (there are basically 6 of them) and once you have identified your own love busters you must rid yourself of them completely and totally.
8) You need to stop trying to fix her and work on improving yourself so that YOU are a better choice than OM. If every interaction with you is stressful, results in an argument or causes her to feel unhappy, she will prefer OM who makes her feel good over you.
9) You need to commit to meeting her ENs while killing love buster even though she will not respond the way you would like. It will be your own expectations that will result in your demise. You will lose hope when she doesn't react the way you WANT her to and not be able to continue the fight.
10) You need to pull the rope tight, get a grip and hang on if you expect to make the whistle. Bull riders only need to go 8 seconds. You're going to need to go at least 3 or 4 months getting NOTHING from her in return.

And THAT is just the basics of Plan A from the carrot side of the equation.

On the stick side you need to do everything you can do to put pressure on the affair...NOT on her but on the affair itself. Exposure is for THAT purpose only. It is not a bargaining chip, a negotiating tool or a threat to be wielded when you aren't getting your way the way she threatens divorce when you are interfering with her affair.

You need to protect your finances and ensure that you do not inadvertently fund the affair in any way. If she wants to live alone, let her live alone, but you do not pay her rent. You don't pay for her car, her gas, her lunch or her medical expenses as long as she continues the affair. You stand in the way of her destroying the marriage in any legal way you can without actually physically restraining her.

You keep this up for the 3 to 4 months I explained above and then evaluate whether or not you can go another 2 or 3. Then you get to think about Plan B. And in Plan B you have to move on as if you will have to be without her while not actually ending the marriage, closing the door, but not nailing it shut while offering her a way to come home.

Then, after a couple of years, you decide if you need to divorce or just live as a eunuch the rest of your life.

Saving your marriage will be the hardest thing you have ever done in your entire life. And if you win and get her back, you get to try what is even harder and that is recovery. But don't try to recover before you save it or you won't have anything to recover. Save it, then fix it. If you try to fix it in order to save if there will be nothing left to fix.



Get a PLAN and execute it step by step. Right now you're responding to whatever she does or says. Start ACTING instead of reacting if you want to save your marriage.

And just so you know, you stand little chance if you do it all just right. If you do it the way you've been going, you might as well quit while you're still alive.

Your own romantic notions stand in the way of you understanding what you need to do to save your marriage. Love ain't magic and there is no magic to fix this. Pull your hat low, your rope tight and hang on. This ride will be the toughest of your life.

Cowboy up!

Mark

She has a point...just because she will not fill out the EN questionnaire is not an excuse to not fulfill her EN's.

You have a good idea of some important ones, you have hinted at them already. You have been truthful about not being good at fulfilling them...now are you getting over that and working to fulfill them now?

What are they? Only she can say for sure, but think back about her complaints, the things she had said or complained to you about that you were not willing to do in the past, and work hard at doing those things.

These changes are not for the short term , for the duration of Plan A, but for the life of your M. Concentrate on showing distinct changes to fulfill her EN's.

And do NOT give up on fulfilling her EN's because you are getting nothing in return...that's what she is waiting for, to see if your changes are permanent or just a manipulation to get her back...to win. And she will test you at every turn. To see if you are trustworthy, to see if your changes are permanent.

You make these changes in yourself to be a good partner even if you don't stay with her. You make these changes in yourself for YOU, and...heaven forbid...for your next relationship.

Hopefully you can change enough and longlasting to show her there is a better M in the future with you.

Honesty is important to her, but this entire plan of action pisses off that portion of her.

She thinks I'm being sneaky and vindictive. She understands that I've never been vindictive but her counter is that she was never a "wh0re s1ut" either. (which I say I've never called her.)

How do I continue exposure without hitting that EN so damn hard?

I can do everything else but exposure hits one of her greatest EN's trust and honesty.

She tells me she hates me for "hurting" her love by calling the OM's mother.

I told her I understand he's a kid that is just in love and I'm not trying to hurt him...should I have said that?

I tried to explain to her my actions in calling the OM's mother. She did argue that she was not like an addict. That it was "love" and not addiction.

Do I avoid talking about our relationship altogether? It seems to only anger her more. She wants control and she feels I have the ability to embarass her.

She see's me calling family and friends and trying to shame her, you say don't try and shame her but she see's exposure as that exact action.

One of her EN's is listening to her. Irony is she wants me to listen to her telling me that she doesn't want me.

She won't talk to me about anything normal. So I can't meet the EN of communication.

She won't go out and do anything with me either.


So plan A is falling apart on me.

The ONLY thing you should be saying in your defense is "I will do whatever is necessary to save my marriage."

Trying to explain your reasoning to a WS is wasted breath. Don't be telling her about aliens, wanting to meet her EN, etc., just do it.

No relationship talk! She brings it up, you say, "Hmmm. How 'bout them Cowboys?" "Want a cookie dear?" If she insists, you say, "I don't discuss divorce. If you insist, let's let the lawyers deal with it. What's your favorite ice cream?"

The only excuse for Plan A to fall apart is if you give up.

Do not try to educate her, do not try to talk to her about what you are doing, or your relationship...just DO IT!

What other EN's can you fulfill that she will let you.

You seem to make excuses and give up too easy.

If I were her, the message I would receive from that is that you don't care about her enough to get over your own victimhood...

Offer to take her out...to a movie, cuddle, buy her flowers, rub her neck...

Yep, darn-tootin if she gets angry and thinks you are manipulating her, because you are unless you are determined to keep doing these things until you don't have arms or breath to do them. So she doesn't trust you...who's fault is that?

Make yourself trustworthy and continue to fulfill her EN and DON'T GIVE UP!

You do give up and you have proven you are not worthy to be in this M...

Sorry to be so tough, but if you REALLY want to be M, you are going to work at it...

Read "Buyers, Renter's, Freeloader's"...you are a Renter, at best...

She sees it as you trying to take away the source of her addiction. She's trying to make you the bad guy so that she doesn't have to admit she is doing something wrong.

Meet her ENs as much as she allows.
Kill all Love Busters in your own actions.
Expect nothing from her till the affair is dead and she is ready to commit to recovery.
Pressure the affair. You can't pressure her into returning home but you can put pressure on the affaair itself. Stop trying to change HER and start working on changing YOU. You are the only one you can control. Change YOUR actions and stop reacting to what she does so much...

You're 26...GTF out of the 'marriage'.

Do you want look over your shoulder for the next 50 years?

I would agree that you can't educate your ww, but I would answer a little different.

"It's not love. It's an affair and a fantasy and I will do whatever it takes to end it and save my marriage. Want a cookie?"

Keep saying it over and over and call it what it is: An affair and adultery.

Of course she does, your hurting the fantasy of the affair!!

Exposure is NOT being disshonest!!

No, it does not!!
She is twisting it to seem that way so you will stop hurting her affair. If you stop hurting it, you are enabling it!!


Wrong!!
She is mad at you becouse you are hurting her affair, DO NOT STOP EXPOSING!!!!

Call his mother again!!!!

DO IT NOW!!!






Let me try an analagy for you.

You ever see the movie "The Terminator"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Terminator

There is a point where Reese is trying to explain to Sara Connar that the T-800/101 is completly single minded.

Kyle Reese: Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.

Untill her affair is DESTROYED, this is how you MUST consider your WW!!!

You can Not reason with her about the affair!

You can not bargain with her about the affair!

She will not feal pitty untill the affair is destroyed!

She will not feal remorse untill the affair is over!

And she absolutly will not stop untill the affair is destroyed.

Do everything you can to make her affair crumble, it will enfuriate her, but she will get over it. Eventually they all do, one way or the other.

Letting her face the consequences of her actions is not an LB. You aren't "hitting an EN". SHE was the one who chose to have the affair. SHE is the one who percieves that everyone thinks she's a w--sl--. They don't think she is because you TOLD them she had an affair. They think she is because she DID have an affair.

If you have cancer and I'm your doctor and tell you, is it my fault you have cancer?


She says honesty is important to her. Telling the truth is honest behavior. You are telling the truth - you are being honest.

Don't bother explaining that to her, she's using wayward illogic at the moment.
And she's not hurting you by breaking the very promises she made to you? How's that for trust and honesty? You don't give a rat's a$$ about POSOM anyway.

I assumed he was an adult but if he's old enough to have seen a PG movie, he's old enough to understand he shouldn't be messing around with another guy's wife. I wouldn't waste a moment's effort defending anything you do that might have reprocussions on him.

Why are you trying to educate her? She's incapable of rational thought.

Exposure isn't what shamed her. HER ACTIONS are what shamed her. Make this distinction. When she accuses you of this - remind her - HER CHOICES are what is shamefull here. Truth is NEVER shameful.

Monc, how many times do we have to say this:

Who gives a flip what she thinks right now? She IS NOT HERSELF! Quit talking to the alien! DO NOT TALK RELATIONSHIP! Do not even talk affair. Talk integrity. There is no way she can get around that one.

You wouldn't be telling OM's mom ANYTHING if she weren't scr&wing another man! You wouldn't be telling her family ANYTHING if she were faithful to you!

Don't you see what she is doing? She is twisting you around her finger like a string. A wimpy, limp string.

STOP IT! STAND UP FOR YOURSELF AND GET MAD!

Oh, and this:
TELLING ABOUT THE AFFAIR IS BEING HONEST. Lying about cheating your H is NOT being honest. Got it?

From Terminator:
"John Connor: About what you said before - about not being able to trust me.
Cameron Phillips: Yes?
John Connor: I don't have to prove anything to anyone. Anyone - including you!"

I remember something about "Do you trust me?" as one of the movie lines.

Thanks for the inspiration.

I have an appointment now, submitted. I need to get this [censored] rolling. Done be a coward. [censored] it. I'll lose my family either way.

Wow...


I just got hit by a profound feeling. Like...zen cleansed.

I'm in the game again. I'm in the chase.

No anxiety. No matter what. And no xanax since Monday?

Nerves are calmed for now. She's not my wife, she's an alien.

She'll see warfare I'll see guardianship.

I'm calling her father tonight and telling him that if he believes in my love and my vows he will not challenge my choice and trust in my love.

I do not need to prove anything to anyone because I know what is in my heart and what I'm doing.

I'm hungry...I think I'll go get something to eat now.

I'm going to pick up the book today on my way home...[censored] getting read tonight! And hit up the place I'm moving into to check it out... Already out of the house blows. I'd have a better chance at this. Although I'd been out long before I grew my balls back.

Monc, if you don't mind answering what's your field of work?

BTW: I'm angry at her.

To anyone who say's this is vengeance or vindictive and who I care to explain my actions too.

I will tell them that is an act of the weak.

I'm am being just and truthful. Justice takes strength and I stand for it.

All others will have to trust in me.



Former Air Force. Integrity First, Service before self, Excellent in all we do.

You can say cheesy, but it'll define my effort.