Very good question.

Here is where I am. He has made a huge change, been hospitalized because he lost it after he finally puked it all up. He has been working as hard as I have ever seen anyone work on a relationship. I am willing to give it some time in hopes (I am not unaware how distant those chances are) that it is a true change. I am not in a hurry to have him leave at the moment.

For now I have a relationship with sex, affection and conversation, three things I never had much of. I can live with that for now as long as he is not cheating and he can't be, he is either with me or with 2 friends who are watching him for me. I have learned to compartmentalize the sex. It sounds rotten but I can't afford to have it affect me as emotionally as it should. Maybe it never will, I don't know yet.

I have a friend living with us right now while he does business here in town. He is my friend first and a fast friend. He is livid at GM for what he has done. He lived with us last year at this time and was stunned at how I was having to live in my marriage. He has been angry since then. This man is not averse to fighting with his fists and he has been very tempted as he has been witness to some of the nastiness here as GM finally came clean. In my whole time with GM I have never seen him accept any correction, accusation or bad mouthing. He sat down like a defeated puppy and let it all go. My friend has given him no quarter and all GM can do is get weepy and agree. This is a very proud man who is finding out and accepting that he had little or nothing to really be proud of. He has seen the change and thinks GM has really made the needed switch in his mind. I hope that helps to understand a little.

Probably this is really dumb but it seems right for me at the moment.

Not dumb at all. Not necessarily, anyway. Many have been where you are now. Some of us understand exactly.

Have concrete plans to deal with the various negative eventualities though.

Thanks, I will do that.

I have been trying to prepare my heart and mind for the eventual fall from grace that I know is coming but do not want to admit is coming (am praying it does not come). The finances are being prepared with a Post nup. I have been dragging my heals on this but I think it is time for me to start some forward movement again. I also am going to do a polygraph. I have really been reluctant to do anything, just part of where I was emotionally.

I am not encouraged by what I read about VLTA's nor should I be. What I read frankly scares the you know what outta me. GM insists he has changed but then when has his reassurance ever meant anything? What a hole they dig for themselves. All I have is the time to watch and see and hopefully at some point I will learn to trust my own judgment again.

Thanks.

PS...I also remember slide rules. Your posts gave that thread an amusing side note for a while. I enjoyed it.

Have concrete plans to deal with the various negative eventualities though.

ITA with Aphelion on this. And since you evidently have reasons for going down this path, may I suggest you figure out a way to align your needs with GM's self-interest because that is the only way you are likely to get them met--sounds snarky, but I am dead serious.

He is still all about "the devil made me do it" and "it was my evil twin" who did those terrible things. Good luck!

Could sound snarky but hey, you all are here giving me many different perspectives I do not have being where I am. How on earth could I be upset by that? I do disagree with you on this part though . I understand that it may not last this way but he has become all about me. He is doing his last act tonight as a leader in something he helped bring about. He is sad about it but he is doing it so that he can be with me more and said as he left that this was for us and that there was nothing more important and it was about time he realized that.


Yes, sometimes. He is getting a bit better. Hard for him at 61 to all of a sudden realize that the rest of us are not rotating around him. It has changed rapidly to a point now the rest will come much slower. He has stopped taking my grief and making it all about him. Recent change, not long enough to really think much about it yet but it has been a change.

I think I need smart more than luck and that is why I am here. Keep it coming. Nothing is unusable, nothing is not worth considering at the very least. It will all make a package of some kind in the end.

OK believer, you have said this before but I was not ready yet to check this out. It sounds very possible. I will check it out. It is almost scary how much this sounds like him. Thanks.

Here's a little observation. Just for your eyes only (no one else can read this )

In your sig line you call them "hookers".... I noticed GM uses a colloquialism to describe what he's done, calling them "sex workers" .... sounds about as evil as hiring a laundress to clean his boxers, yanno?

This slight "cleaning up" for sake of appearances turned me off, big time

HE DOES!?!?

Oh wow. Talk about trying to make things look better or make himself look better! That is disgusting and that makes me angry. Would not want to offend his sweetie now would he. :RollieEyes:

I know he has said that he lost track of how much money he was giving to his last hooker, the one who was so special they were faithful to each other and were in love, because he thought paying her each time seemed so seedy. So he gave her money for "other" things....a car, part of a trailer so she could move close to us, her cell phone bills for her 25 calls a day with him etc....plus he bought her groceries and all else she needed. Yup, not seedy anymore was it? Just like being married (without the responsibility or bad times or dirty socks and throwing up). Yup, it was special ya know?

Sex workers. Well now that ain't so bad now is it?

Maybe when she gets of out prison she can get a card board sign and stand at the freeway exit..."I'll 'work' for food."

She will need a bag over her head. By that time that "rode hard and put away wet" look she has will be a little worse for the wear.

I can't wait for sentencing. I have the site bookmarked and the date circled on my calendar. 1st offense though on both counts so she probably will get away with it.

While reading through another thread I realized that even though GM is working a program, BTW he is doing that very well, he is doing this all for himself. He will go just far enough to keep me from crying or yelling or feeling obviously terrible but that is where it stops. Those things make him uncomfortable so they are important for him to try to make them stop. He is working at this but the motivation is all about him still. I am so thankful that he even speaks to me daily now that that tiny bit fills me up and I fail to see how pitiful it really is. I just mentioned that to him and he is upset now (so?) but he wants me to tell him how to do this? I am now officially resigning as his Mommy. I told him that no matter how badly he feels he is treated here, no matter how many "issues" and "agendas" and how much "bitterness" he sees as the reason he is not welcomed with understanding and love he still needs to be here and read, read and read some more. And post, he needs to keep posting. Y'all just don't understand him. Y'all get his BS and toss it back and slowly I realize that I have only one boundary set for him and that is that he never cheats again. It is a big one for sure but that is only one. I see more now the direction I need to head. Steve is helping with plans and direction to make the marriage work, to help us to love each other again (gonna take GM a while to fill the nuclear crater he has left in my life). Still, without full surrender to me or God or whatever he chooses to surrender to that is honorable it will never really be good enough. This is going to take years and years. I see what you mean now. Am I really this slow to get it? I feel like I am foggier than GM ever was (is?). What a mess this is to navigate! This is NOT what I wanted to be doing with my life. He broke it. We both have to fix it but he first has to make it right and make me OK by healing me and making it safe. Only then will I spend the rest of my life devoted to making this work.

Any suggestions?

I would have taken what I could get, a few sentences a day would have been far more than I was getting, and been happy with that and never known how much there really is out there to be had. I demand that the rest of my life be filled with the kind of love and relationship this site supports.

One other thing. I never did the big exposure thing, we were already months into this when I found this site. He told our kids because he had to preempt her threats. He told a few friends so that they could be my call people if I needed to know he was where he said and doing what he was supposed to be doing. I told a few friends for support. I never contacted her kids (I think they are both out of jail and I know one just made her a Grandmother - egads that makes me shiver. I would never let that woman around my child). I don't know if I should do this, I feel probably not BUT......I wonder if her parole officer who is going to be making recommendations to the court for her sentencing would like to know how she supplements her disability check? Seriously, if she can do the things she was doing with my husband her back is not so bad that she can't work. Does he know how everything she does is to cheat so she does not have to pay taxes or be easily found? GM does not think this is a good idea. I don't care what he thinks, makes me feel like he is protecting her. This may simply be because I want to exact some kind of revenge (maybe? ). I don't even know if it would make me feel better. Thoughts? What would be the right thing to do in this circumstance?

I say go for it--it's a public service if she is gaming the system and you will probably find out some more juicy tidbits that she has been holding over his head. Cause I'll bet she wasn't tweaking all by herself. Druggies hang with other druggies.

Also if he "exposed" to your kids without you being there, you might want to "re-expose" with the no-spin version of what happened.

While I respect your desire to stay in the marriage, I think that you are trying to place a normal template over a very abnormal situation. This is not the next door neighbor that he had an illicit relationship with. This is a hooker who was probably his drug supplier. The more info you get about the extent of his vices, the better able you will be to protect yourself and manage your relationship. I would be hiring a professional investigator to find out just what he did when he walked out the door for the last 27 years. Then you will know what you are up against.

Hi Nano!

We have been through the drug addiction in the past. I know his signs. If they did anything it was not something he brought home or used when away from her and has not since D Day. I was raised by an alcoholic mother, had a brother who was an alcoholic and a drug addict and have been around that much as a nurse so I was careful to evaluate all of that when D Day came around. Before the last 6 years he was practicing and I do not think he was doing anything after he got sober but then I can't ever be certain what he was up to during those trysts. I see no signs of addiction now and did not see signs of withdrawl from drugs post D Day. I don't think she ever did the meth in front of him, he was not aware she had meth pipes and was surprised when he found out there was residue on one of them. He is with me almost constantly and when gone he is not in a place to be doing drugs. I will always have that on my mind as long as I am with him since once with a druggie is plenty for me.

I spoke with each of our sons after he talked to them. He told them all of it that I knew at that time and I basically filled them in on the rest once I knew. They are totally aware, he did not lie to them or spin it in any way. That was probably the hardest and the best thing he has ever done.

Is there a template for this? All I know is that we are working with and following the lessons that Steve Harley has us doing. They are helping. We are going to the workshop next weekend. We have a plan, each of us has our own plan and we are working on them. He is far more compliant than I am, I am still too mad sometimes to care but I am plugging along. I am reading and reading thread after thread. I feel bad that I am not posting more to others but I have little confidence in anything I would say at the moment but I am learning a lot and trying to fit myself into places that I would not have thought about on my own. If there is something else to do please tell me. I respect that you respect my desire to work this out but I still have very little respect for myself knowing what I know. I feel stupid all the time, stupid and reluctantly dependent. Thanks for that, it was very nice of you to say that.

As I was typing this I got a text message with a photo from GM. His GPS is not locating him where he says he is, close but not where he should be. He just sent me a photo of the inside of the restaurant he is sitting in. He is trying.

Hi Sadsosad, what I meant by a normal template is when I see you post about how you think he is protecting his hooker because he is in love with her. If she was a work colleague, someone normal (not a hooker drug addict), then it seems like that would make sense (and you should try to break their love connection.) You could place the normal MB template of how to respond over it. But why would a man who slammed past you to go flirt with a pretty redhead in stilettos fall in love with an ugly broken down pro? He sounds like he has enough money to at least buy a decent looking hooker, so what's the attraction?

And did he (the notorious liar) tell you he didn't know about the pipes? the meth? Just like he is telling you he doesn't lie any more?

What would I advise you to do? Gather information about him from others. Listen to nothing he says. Question everything. Put him under incredible pressure so he has no energy to keep up the false persona he does so well. Look for the cracks in his facade.

I'm out of town for a few days, so probably won't respond for awhile.

Thanks Nanowritersix.

I have to play a concert tonight so I can't write anymore until late. I will answer you soon and I hope you will see it when you get back.

I hope you are going on a pleasurable trip out of town. Have a wonderful time. We are leaving for the MB weekend next Friday so if you are not back until then we will chat after that. I am assuming that we will be kept pretty busy during that time .

Bye for now!

You mean "sex worker", don't you? :RollieEyes:

Actually, my thoughts flow in the opposite direction. GM can write for prescription drugs, and he may have supplied drugs to his "sex worker", not the other way around..... That would be one of my polygraph questions. Another one would ask about any underage or teenage "sex workers". Most hookers (oops, I mean sex workers) are not high level call girls but down on their luck run-away or young girls with history of abuse .... in other words, easy targets for more abuse. I wonder what the youngest age "sex worker" was ....

Treating these women like chattel and thus denying their humanity while portraying himself as BETTER THAN THEM is who he is. Morally and ethically, GM is LOWER than any of his hookers (oops, I mean sex workers). Why? Because he is a highly educated man who has the responsibility to uphold (at least the spirit of ) the Hippocratic Oath. He was not turning tricks to put food on the table. He was contributing to the downfall and abuse of pitiful down and out females ... And he wants to tell us how respected he's been in the medical community ...

One foot in front of the other is the only way to approach a long journey.


You're just fine.

It is all an overwhelming steaming pile of manure when you first become aware of the depth and breadth of the betrayal. At first, you can't even think straight because gravity went upside down for awhile.


No contest, my dear. You are not foggy. You are grieving. Big difference.

I HATE this I HATE this I HATE this!

This is what I have figured out. GM courted me wonderfully. I felt loved and honored and totally and completely happy. We got married and it changed that very day. When I asked him several horrible years later why he married me he responded that it was because he wanted children and he knew I would make a good mother and a wife made a Dr. more credible in the community. That was it. From this standpoint now I see why it all changed so abruptly. Courtship was my job interview. Once married I became "the help" and was owed nothing more than the bare minimum I needed to do my job. Once presented with "the rules" I tried everything then eventually balked, dug in and withdrew. No compensation, no good evaluations only more and more requirements and more and more criticism.

So here we are. We just sat down to do our weekly reading of his Extraordinary Precautions. Reading this always makes him feel good. It always makes me feel like total crap. It is excruciating to listen to a tome of rules my husband has to have in order to remain faithful to me. Down to what to do if a woman makes eye contact! Well h***, how can the man even get through a grocery store with his pants on?

When he first came back home he told me he did not want to grow old alone. THAT was why he wanted back? I did not even hear the meaning in that until today. So he had sex with every woman in this part of the state and got tired of it so he is home to grow old with me? Oh yes, he got caught. He admits that if I had not caught him he would probably be doing her this very moment. Is this supposed to make me happy? He was totally able to remain faithful to the last hooker for 6 long years, totally faithful. He told me that if I had put the pressure on him for sex he would have lied to me to get out of it. For a hooker? Never for me? So now I am supposed to feel gifted with his desire to build a library of rules so he can treat me right? SHE did not need that for him to do for her what he never did for me.

I can't figure out what I need to do. I am supposed to be working on meeting his needs. He meets his own needs so well it is difficult for me to find a way and frankly I do not care if he feels good right now. I don't even care if he knows that. He sleeps like a baby. I get little sleep. I have recurring nightmares that cause me to wake thrashing and moaning many times when I do sleep. He has sex dreams (he talks in his sleep) with the OW. **only once** I call it Dirt Bag Rutting. He is working the program and getting stronger and feeling better about himself and I am standing here feeling worse all the time. What is not happening that should be? Where am I going wrong with this? I HATE this. The Harleys are going to be mighty unhappy with my attitude at MB weekend unless it improves in the next few days. There is supposed to be improvement. Steve always asks me if it is better and after talking to him it always seems better so I say yes but when I walk out of the room it is not better. I feel a melt down coming and I simply do not know what I am doing wrong. Maybe it is just the rollercoaster going up and down so quickly. Oh great. He just asked me to work on the LB thing tonight. Oh how lovely. Just what I feel like doing. How did you all get through this? I am doing one foot at a time and still tripping!

"The Harleys are going to be mighty unhappy with my attitude at MB weekend unless it improves in the next few days."

LOL, I think they can handle it.

YOU are the betrayed spouse and that is why it is so hard for you. A wayward will never have the same horrible feelings, I don't care how sorry they are.

It took me a year before I started feeling normal again.

Nothing.