Monc,

Your feelings are normal and understandable. You just haven't had the life experiences to understand.

You need to treat her as if it's over, regardless of whether or not you're going to save it. You see, if you had kids I'd be advising you to go after her with every single legal weapon in the book and to prepare yourself for court to keep the kids from a cheating woman. But you don't have that, so all you have is your love for her, which I know is very real, and the hope that she regains her love for you.

She won't. Not with you guys living apart and not without any sort of incentive or her to return.

She has ZERO incentive to return. No kids to coordinate things over. No kids to lose in a custody fight, which does happen to women from time to time.

The second you start to behave as if you don't care if she returns or not is when she'll notice your behavior change.

But seriously, she's not worth a damn. In all seriousness.
There are tons of great women out there and not a single one of them, NOT ONE, is worth putting up with this kind of thing for.

I admit I don't know this whole story but I, funny enough, don't like to criticize this WW with such harsh words. She suffered (and allowed/enabled) years of emotional abuse.

For Monc's part, she is the perfect woman because she not only allowed his addiction - she encouraged it. So for Monc to give this up, he has to face the grim reality that another woman may not be so enabling. IMHO, Monc is not so afraid of giving up WW as he is afraid of the life-change he may have to face.

His WW was abused. If he physically beat her would you be so harsh toward her?

Now why was she so enabling? That makes me curious.

Ok guys...lets remember the title of this site is marriage builders....not divorce builders....

Ok so monc is young....ok his wife is definatly on the short list designated for hell right now, yes his situation is BAD.

YES he could move on and find some thing better...there is life after divorce....I know many people who are living proof of this.

But I do give him credit for at least doing some exposure and making some waves in the affair....they may not have been the tsunami he really needed and would have gotten with full exposure but he did more than I have seen some people do coming to this site looking for no more than sympathy.

Some people before they will admit failure need to work a problem from every angle first to know it won't work.

I believe monc is one of these people. The fact he is still holding on to hope and giving this a go he is not ready to give up.

All advice is welcome....but lets do what this site is desinged for. Help monc with poistive guidance. He's not perfect none of us have/were during our processes.

Monc I am risking my own neck here...I expect you to follow the poistive advice givin to you here from now on. The goal is to build...right now you are building a road back home to your marriage for WW. Follow the advice and experience given to you by the vets.....also I think you should consult with Dr. Harley. He will give you the best advice of all.

My positive advice is to get Monc to treat his addiction. That has to be his first priority. He'll never save/have any marriage without treating this problem. Even Dr. Harley says that.

In terms of spending time with her. I can say, that I failed to do so 15 hours a week for the last six months because I was on Midnight shifts and doing 3 classes. The time she cheated was June when I was JUST building the computer she let me build.

She felt unwanted because of that but didn't say ***edit*** to me.

Not a word. Just typed in her online diary how sad she is in her "cave" all alone. And it was a private entry to boot. I couldn't see it without going one extra step in her diary account.

She has failed utterly to communicate with me folks. She won't even communicate now.

Guys,

This woman wasn't "abused" as you imply. He plays games. So did I. So do many men. Unless it's an round the clock thing, it's normal. Playing WoW doesn't make you an addict.

It's also an excuse by the WW.

And this website isn't a "save marriage at any cost" type of site.

We can blow sunshine up Monc's a$$ all night about how there's hope if he follows the plans, etc, when the reality is that his wife is lost. She's gone. Done. Nothing to bring her back.

There's other forms of advice other than, "Yes, hold out hope that this cheating woman you have no kids with will come to her senses and return."

Sorry. I don't see the point of forgiving a cheater when there are no kids. There's nothing to save.

Better to get a clean slate with someone else, especially when you're young.

If Monc get her back I'd bet my next 3 paychecks that he'll be back here seeking advice in a few years after they've had a few kids and she's freaked out about the responsibilities of parenthood.

You're right, this isn't a divorce sight. But there's no need to pee on his leg and tell him it's raining.

Coho and Zen are here and both committed to trying to save their marriages. That's one worth working on BECAUSE the WW is open to R and working on what led her down this path.

Monc's wife isn't.

The hard lesson I've learned in life is that women (and men) are replaceable.

The bullshyte factor is very low when you've been around the block a bit and there TONS of fish in the sea.

Whoa Baron...Though I agree that it's less likely for this WW to return due to the no children factor, it is not impossible...And I do NOT agree with you that there is "no point in forgiving a cheater when there are no kids"...What if the WW did return? No point to forgiveness? I just don't buy it...I didn't "get it" and repent just because Mr. W and I have a daughter...

On another note, I agree that Monc has an addiction to gaming that must be dealt with, but that is no excuse for his wife to have an affair...The gaming issue is the part of the "state of the marriage" that Monc is responsible for...He is not responsible in any way for his wife having an affair though...


This is a threadjack, but I just HAVE to say it...You are willing to support an AFFAIRAGE over a legitimate marriage? You've GOT to be kidding me...It is blowing my mind to watch you do that here in this venue...Do you realize how utterly ticked and even destroyed you would be if that was YOUR exWW and her OM here trying to save their affair? Mr. W and I both feel sure that you haven't thought that one all the way through...

Mrs. W

YUP good to know.

Nevertheless it's no excuse for an affair Pio

I don't remember saying it was an excuse for her to have an affair. Find that and highlight it for me because I've not found it yet.

All I am saying is that the addiction is a serious issue and I don't see how WW is going to want to come back to this marriage and keep the status quo.

Monc is going to have to seriously change his behavior in order to be able to maintain any type of LTR. Most women don't want to be ignored for hours or days on end. Or maybe Monc could find a woman who is also addicted to gaming and they could share the hobby. How healthy is that though?

Well, I see the "marriage at all costs" group is rallying its troops.

OK, I'll play along ... considering their youth, no kids, and the dysfunctionality on BOTH sides of this cluster ... just what are the reasons that make anyone think there is a snowballs chance of this becoming a healthy M?

Personally, I think the best possible outcome would be for both of them to D, learn from their mistakes and then start over fresh with new partners, without all of the baggage that will haunt this M forever more. But that's me ... and I'm open to other perspectives.

Also, I have some history to draw from ... I originally married way too young with a mismatched partner and grew apart as we matured to the point where we couldn't stand to be around each other. Not only does this happen ... in these cases, it should be EXPECTED, and from my understanding THIS IS MB philosophy straight form Dr. Harley ... young, short M, no kids, infidelity ... Plan D, learn and start over.

This was not my point....I did not tell him to "save the marriage at all cost"....I said Monc is at a place where HE still has hope....until he knows that he has tried everything and no angle or road will work....he won't be able to give up.
It is something HE needs to work out before he has a sense of finality....this is why I suggested he consult Dr. Harley...a trained professional who could advise him better than us....most people listen to trained profesionals than regular people.



SURE because all WS's want to save there marriage....I mean come on....This case is no different than most others.....and it's not the worst I have seen...I seen ones way worse on this site.

Truth is....this site has changed from the old days....Plan B here sometimes is jumped to way too early in some cases....if you go back and read the older threads you will notice...Plan B was reserved for EXTREME cases. There were also a higher number of recoveries than I see now. Now it seems Eh your young Just give up on the effort you have made and vows you made. So what if you love that person and still feel hope just give up. How exactly does that help this persons healing process. Weather the marriage survives or not a grieving process must be gone through...following things through is part of that.

I am not speaking for myself but also for other memebers who have noticed this....But no one wants to speak up because the angry mob with shovels, picks, and torches seems to arrive at anyone speaking there mind. I really could care less if people do not like what I am saying...but someone had to say it....and many members here know I am not one to keep my mouth shut and be bullied.

I think we all could learn something by going back and reading the threads of the older members like Orchid and lost in VA just to name a few. You might be surprised at the differance in today.

What exactly should be expected?

If you and your first wife "grew apart" MyRev it was not because you married too young but because you failed to build a mutually compatible marriage which is the aim of Marriage Builder's tools to build and maintain romantic love. Next thing you will be telling me you believe in soulmates.

In any case, you are right that Dr Harley pretty much says if you are not long married with no kids then you should divorce however he also says he doesn't really understand people wanting to recover their marriages after infidelity but that they invariably DO want to recover.

I agree Pio RE the addiction and what you say however his first priority has to be ending the affair.

you've gotta know when to hold em and know when to fold em...

At least, according to the great Johnny Cash.

Uh...

I think that would be Kenny Rogers...

Cash recorded Bull Rider:


Mark

Mark - it's an "in" joke between Pio and I - he's just messing with my head - or rather he was TRYING to mess with my head.

Mrs. W,

Sorry, but I don't see any reason to even bother saving a marriage when there are no kids and the marriage is so young and the parties are young.

I also know that Zen and Coho are an affairage, yet, as Dr. Hareley himeself has said, it is a marriage that even he tries to save.

My exww doesn't have an OM. I never gave her the chance to have one since I agreed to a D so quickly.

Her bf did come along a few months later and they started dating and any and all hopes of saving our M ended there.

I think it's great you and Mr. W saved your marriage. I just fall on the other end of the spectrum after years on this board and my own life experiences.

I just don't see anyone as being worth my tears and time ESPECIALLY if there are no kids.

There's just no family to save, IMHO.

Monc is very young at 26. His WW has many many maturity issues.

I've been single for 3 years and have seen how awesome the women out there are and how I could do leagues better than what I settled for in my marriage.

Having seen that and experienced it I've realized that no person is worth the massive hassle of overcoming infidelity.

The only time I'd even consider it with anyone in the future is if there was a child in the equation AND she was a very very remorseful WW right off the bat.

Otherwise I'd kick her to the curb, but not after gathering massive evidence and lawyering up and not repeating the mistakes I made this go around.

My ultimate goal is to meet a woman who is willing to follow MB.

I've been on these boards for many years now and I've seen men like Monc hang on to a cheating wife for long periods of time, wasting their lives away in the hopes that the WW "wakes up".

I just don't see an unrepentant WW as worth a lick.

That's setting the bar pretty high. I bet many, if not most, recovered marriages began with an unrepentant WW. I think recovery statistics would be far lower it we went by your standard.