Yes, I will be back in a minute.

I am trying to explain to GM how he can answer without all the gory details.

Oy, first it's like pulling teeth and then it's an avalanche.

Response to everyone!

GM is walking the dogs around the farm, I talked him into taking the goats too so I could stay in and think and post.

He says he is not using RH as a weapon. He sat by the bed and cried saying that he is scared because he keeps effing up. So I had to explain to him that what I ask is all I want to know. He has this terrible habit of raising his voice over everyone so that they will hear him. Sitting at a stop light across from Pricilla's I once asked if he had bought her a sex toy. Big mistake, he did and as I was begging him to stop I got the description, what he did with it and how. I will never be able to get that out of my head but I was begging him to stop and he never heard me because he just talked over me. Yesterday I found out that he told OW he had to go on our anniversary trip. Today he says he was lying to her when he said that. Then he says that he did not want to go with me to NYC, wanted to go but not with me. There is truth in there somewhere but darned if I know what it is.

black_raven, GM apparently changed it. I posted, per suggestion by tst, to Dr. Harley asking him about it since we do not talk to Steve until Friday. Right now we are holding with what I want, nothing but answers to the particular question I ask, no embellishments and if he is lying and I call him on it all I need is confirmation that he is lying and sees it for what it is.

Sunflower, I just posted to Dr. Harley. I did not see those threads at the bottom and had not wanted to interrupt any conversation in the lesson threads. Thanks for pointing that out. D'oh, how I missed that is more than I can figure. You are right, lying is a habit. Gonna be a hard one for him to break but oh well, we just gotta keep at it. Thanks.

Yep. Pepperband nailed it. What a shock it was when I discovered that people exist, who are, for lack of a better word, evil. I mean, I knew it intellectually, but thought that these were "other people" in other people's lives and of course I would know an evil person if I met them. Ha! They are not all in prison or eating beans in a dingy room by themselves. They laugh and joke--there's no smell of brimstone and they leave a reflection in the mirror. Unfortunately, all decent people will give them the benefit of the doubt for way too long.

They will lie (haha) on a psychiatrist's couch for YEARS and never gain any insight into their own behavior, although they now know what's wrong with you. They never feel sorry for anyone else, but man, do they feel sorry for themselves.

We're not wrong for loving and trusting them before we know what they are. We're not wrong for projecting empathy and kindness on their motives when they have none. But to think they can change--can you change the color of your eyes? Can you grow another hand? And why would they make the effort to change? They are happy with themselves just the way they are. They will certainly modify their behavior to get what they want. But real change? Meh. All a decent person can do is to protect themselves from their endless manipulations.

I still laugh at the thought of walking the goats.

I thought it was GM but wanted to verify who the "He" was. I don't get the impression that GM is using RH as a weapon but is probably scared of withholding any little detail that can come back to bite him in the butt later that now he's going overboard and whacking you upside the head even when you tell him to stop. Early on, he was warned not to withhold or lie when you asked him for truth. He did and of course that did more damage so now it's to the other extreme.

Hang in there sss. It is tough and you have more to sift through than most. There were things stuck in my head that I thought would be on my mind forever and today I rarely think of them. It may not seem like it right now, but it does get better.

I just ventured out of the bedroom to make myself some comfort popcorn and looked out the window. There, across the pond was a Labrador, a Golden Retriever, GM, two black and white goats and our little mutt walking down the long drive. It was a pretty funny sight!

I rarely and possibly never take to my bed like this. My goodness it is like I have a case of the vapors! Maybe my corset is too tight? Maybe it is just a stress swoon!

Yes, he really has been caught. I asked Dr. Harley if there was any good solution. It seems GM is stuck in a Bad/Bad situation and so am I. One of GM's biggest problems is his over thinking of everything. He thinks he understands me then he decides what my decision is (without even asking me) then he decides what to do based on what he thinks my decision is. It gets him into all kinds of trouble including making me seriously angry. In fact a lot of this infidelity was because he decided that I did not like sex. Never told him that, never was true. I told him I was not going to have sex with someone who could not be bothered to talk to me more than a few sentences a day for weeks on end and when he did he was pushing me around. He made of it what he wanted to make of it. What would be the easiest way to get what he wanted? Not deal with me and just go elsewhere. All based on his waaaaaay incorrect decision that I did not like sex.

Thanks for the encouragement, it helps.

All right you....Grrrrrrrrr.

Nano, I would so love to just say something not nice and move along. I really would but I can't. There is much merit in what you and Pepperband have said about the People Of The Lie. It scares the you know what out of me.

I want to be the last person right now to defend GM but here is a bit that you should know. GM is only like that with me. For some reason we have not discovered yet he turned on me the day we got married. None of that makes any real difference right now, the past is past and we need to focus on making things right now. To others he has been kind and generous. He is emotional and empathetic. We was a loving father. While I had a few reasons to stay with him one of them was because I could see this in him daily. It was not directed at me (my reason for planning an escape) but it was there. I do not in any way think he is evil. I see the similarities to what you are posting but he is not that. IF he is and I come to that knowledge you and Pepperband will receive from me a very heartfelt thank you and a large banner that says "YOU WERE RIGHT" after I recover from the experience. Promise. I truly do not think that is GM and I have given it much thought since Pepperband first brought it up.

SSS,

I've been reading / skimming here. our story touched me as mine is extremely similar. My d-day came after 21 years of M. It I haven't posted here in quite some time. Not sure how many remember me. For various reasons, I, with MBs help, erased or deleted most of my trail, so you wouldn't get an accurate account of my journey from whats left. My H's disclosure took well over 3 years. too me that long to bet the cojones to proceed with a polygraph. I don't want to go into the particulars here.

After posting for years, here and other places, I'm just kinda burnt out on forums, although it was my lifeline and saved me when I needed it. If you would email me privately, I think I might really be able to help. Let me know if you're interested. In any case, I wish you the best.

-Lilybelle

Lilybelle

That is kind of you.

I would like to do that. I am a terrible correspondent though. Just so you know .

This forum has been a life saver for me.

sss-
i would like to e mail you privately off the forum. pls ask the moderators for my e mail address. hope to talk to you soon, sunflower

sss-
as you know- our stories are somewhat similar. when my H would reveal painful facts about his affairs- it would put me in a tailspin for days. i felt with each new fact that i had been stabbed in the heart again- so i know what you are saying.

your H and mine - see things as black and white. thats why he gives you all the details that you dont want to know. i explained to my H that i did want radical honesty about the facts, when, where, what kind of sex, etc. but i did NOT want honesty as far as his emotions- like when i asked him how it was- i wanted him to say something like;='"when i think of it now- it was all disgusting and my stupid sickess taht led me there and i feel sick and disgusted with the thoughts of being with that woman."

sometimes he would tell me - that he had positive emotions - and it would hurt me even more.

sf

Funny, I did not really want to know much about the sex until now. NOW I am curious that all his replies about it being just everyday average were lies. I feel the bottomless pit in my stomach opening up again. I may not have the courage to ask that right now. I did want to know about the emotion since one of the first things he told me was that he was in love with her. Skanky Ho that she was. I had to know how serious he was about leaving me for her. Apparently serious enough to talk about it with her. Ick Ick Ick

sometimes he would tell me - that he had positive emotions - and it would hurt me even more.

sf [/quote]

Oops, I forgot to remove the last sentence from your post. Makes no sense there but since we can't edit I thought I would do it this way.

sss-
maybe when he tells you about his affair with the Ho- he can state before hand something like - " it was my sick way of thinking that led me to her- there was no true love- just two sick people filling up their empty egos".

another way it was explained to me- btw- i live steve's idea of the journal- that when you ask a question and hte information might be painful- he could say that he will give you the truth - but he doesnt want to hurt you- and maybe it would be too much to bear.

idk! for me - i had to know every little detail- or else i felt that there were still some secrets that he shared with OW that i was not part of. so even though it was the most painful information i ever had to hear- i wanted all teh facts- but NOT THE EMOTION.

have you called kim yet???? if not yet- e mail her and call her tomorrow. it will make all the difference. and good for you for posting to dr harley.

sf

Good grief can't he stop talking? He just came in to lay down on the bed and take a nap. A little conversation about the events of today, I say, "Well at least you were honest about your passionate, best sex ever with your love ho." (I did not say love ho to him) He starts up with the fact that it was not always like that, you know how it goes when you have sex all the time, but it was wonderful, GREAT sex when we fell in love, but that wears down you know.........ARGHHH! It took me finally yelling at him to STOP to get him to stop talking.

Hi SSS,
I havent posted to you, actually only just figured out who you are.
Anyway, you said
hmm, perhaps the delivery could have been more focused? It does sound a little like a statement that wants an answer. A suggestion is that next time you could try saying
"Thank you for being honest about the SF you felt at the time was most passionate with OW. I appreciate the honesty. I don't need to talk about it right now, I just wanted to tell you thank you"

that way you said what you needed and he heard it as well as you didnt want a discussion about it

I am so touchy today! lildoggie, we had just finished a discussion about how he needs to stop talking. Answer the question I ask and not tell me all the gory details unless I ask for them. He can't stop himself once he starts talking and this has been going on for 6 months, constant fragments of his love life with her. I swear he is going to kill me with this and I am strong as an ox.

Now that I got that out....thank you lildoggie, I do need to be reminded sometimes that I need to stop my own mouth and say thanks to him. I do say it but not nearly enough. You doing OK? I have read your thread too but not posted. I hope you are well.

Ekk, I always worry when people say they read my thread. I start thinking "oh no, what stupidity have I written lately..."

Another idea I had was say to GM "I am going to ask a question and I want yes or no. Nothing else, do you understand what I am asking?" Get him to repeat it back to you if necessary, (Yes I have done this with Flick) then ask the question.

Sometimes I think the problem is expectations. If the H's don't actually understand what we expect from them, they err on the side of caution. For Flick that means tell me as little as possible, for GM, it appears to be open mouth and let it all flow out

I have said to Flick before "hun, I want to tell you something and I do not want a response, I just want you to listen" then I say blah-dee blah, hug him, thank him for listening and go do whatever. I dont take too much time about it, 1-2 sentances, He seems to take it well

FWIW -
Back then, when we were just getting the truth out, I asked:

"Was sex with OW the best you've ever had in your life?"

after a loooooooooooooooooong pause, H said:

"Yes" very very softly

About a day later I asked him "Why was it the best ever?"

He said: "She'd let me do anything I wanted."

About a week later I asked OW's husband what, if anything, OW said about the sex. Here's what OW's H said:

"She told me that the sex was just OK, but that the conversation and the romance was great."

Isn't that interesting? The disparity of their experience?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am telling you this so that you realize it is not unusual for the WH to experience adultery sex as far more exciting that marriage sex.

Sort of par, really.

I live in fear of having to confront some of the totally inane things I have said on other forums. I don't know if I will ever feel like revisiting this thread however. BTDT and done with it at some point. Nothing stupid on your thread that I have seen.


Good idea, I will try it!


I call em gushers. It all comes out like that old kids song, great big gobs of greasy grimy gophers guts. Equally disgusting too!


It is like when my kids were small, you had to hold their little faces so that they had to look you in the eye in order for them to actually hear you. Then the hug and off they went, usually forgetting anyway but at least remembering when you brought it back up.

When I first got here your thread and Flicks (or maybe it was just on your thread) were one of the first I saw and read. I was so encouraged by what you had been through and how you came out of it. It is funny that I was just reading a different thread and was reading a long post from you when you responded to my thread. Hmmmmmm. Cue the Twilight Zone.

Thanks so much.