I would talk to your wife and develop a plan that you can both agree to.

Hi Fred,

apologies if my comments about your credit rating question upset you in any way. It just seemed a little crass to even bring this up at the same time you were asking questions about making a decision that would so affect your childrens' futures, especially when they have been through so much.

It touched a nerve with me, as a BS with 3 wonderful children whose needs counted for nothing when my H had his A.

Back to your marriage. Of course it can be saved. You have access to literature here that can help you save it, but IMHO you need to discuss this with your W, and you need to determine whether she is prepared to buy into the MB programme with you. Before you do this, you must end all contact with the OW and you must write her a letter telling her that you will have no contact. Importantly, you must mean it!

Is it a coincidence that you decide you want to give your M another go at around the same time that the OW tells you she is leaving the country? How are you sure that you won't just have physical contact with her for one last time before she goes. You know, just one last time to say goodbye properly, it won't really mean anything, it'll just be our way of ending things. Blah, blah, blah.

To do that after you discuss rebuilding your M with your W would be disastrous. To do that after rasing the hopes of your children that you may come home would be cruel beyond belief.

I don't know you so cannot know your true intentions, but you do seem to still be foggy and I worry that you have too much contact with the OW to resist temptation.

Before you do anything end contact with the OW, and communicate honestly with your W.

Good luck.

What if she still refuses the MB program but is willing to go to marriage counseling? She suggested counseling in January when I said I wanted a D but when I brought up MB she still dismissed it as something that wouldn't work.


Good question. I think I'm starting to wake up from the "vacation."

Ok.

Normally councilling does not usually start when contact with OW is made.

Since you are the promoter of the council maybe you want to check out a MB weekend meeting?

Thank you. I just looked at the page about the MB weekend and it looks interesting. I don't know if I could convince her to do it, but I can try. Is there anyone on this thread that did the weekend and can tell me what they thought?

BTW my wife and I have never talked about the affair. I think she knows... I know she suspects, but she's never confronted me. When I tell her I want to come back to her do I bring it up? Do I wait until later? What if she wants details that I know will hurt her even more?

Fred, before you can even consider reconcilliation you will need to come clean with your BW. I would seriously work on myself until OW is gone for good. How much contact do you have with OW right now?

Eventually you will realize this is a very foggy question. The BS gets to decide how much is "too much". You answer honestly every question asked whether you think it will "hurt" her or not.

What is it about the MB program that she believes wouldn't work?

Is it possible that Radical Honesty is a problem for her because she had an A herself????

We went on the MBW and it was great...very, very helpful, everything is spelled out for you in black and white.

I agree with ff...you need to tell your W EVERYTHING about your A (answer all of her questions truthfully) and find out if she is even open to reconciliation.

You also need to get away from the OW...seeing her once or twice a week will keep you in a foggy fantasyland where you are not even "yourself", and your W will surely recognize this, I'm sure.

Please, please, please don't refer to your time away from your wife while having an affair a vacation when speaking to your wife. I fear for your safety. That phrase makes me want to smack you and I don't even know you!!! :twobyfour:

Of course, you have to tell her everything. The truth is not what is going to hurt her. Your actions are what is going to hurt her. Dishonesty will only make her pain greater.

Hi Fred,

Well I muddled through this thread.LOL

It appears you are familiar with MB. Have you read SAA or any of Dr. H's other books?

I'm curious who ended the affair? You or OW? Specifically, how did it end? When you said recently, can you give us an actual date?

If you are interested in reconciling your marriage, it is definitely going to be a lot more work than it would have been in 2007. There's been a lot more damage done by both of you.

My first recommendation is that you sit down and ask your wife if she is interested in reconciling your marriage. If she's not, it doesn't necessarily mean your marriage is over. You will just have to go about this a bit differently.

If she is interested in reconciliation, then I would recommend that you ask her to agree to coaching with the Harley's as the path to recovery. I firmly believe that working with any other marriage counselor will lead you to a divorce.

It will be necessary for both of you to be honest about the infidelities that have occurred.

You mentioned the MB weekend. It was well worth the investment. But I don't think you have time to wait for the next one. So I suggest contacting the Harley's and setting up phone coaching to get started.

I'm not sure what Dr. H will tell you about leaving this job. If OW is leaving within 3 months, he may have a course of action that can create no contact until then. But there WILL have to be absolutely 100% NC. It may even be that you take a leave of absence to achieve this. Dunno. But there's more than one way to make it all happen. But it still must begin with radical honesty.

Sorry. I used that term because I read it in another thread about someone on plan B. They referred to when the WH first moves out as a vacation because he gets to spend nearly unlimited time with OW, doesn't have to account for his whereabouts, etc. Someone said the vacation eventually ends when reality starts to set in and they're right on the mark with that statement. Despite the problems with my marriage, I'm beginning to understand that the grass isn't really any greener on the other side... It's just slightly different grass.

She said the program wouldn't work because of me (serious LBs there).

I haven't read any of the books, but I read everything on this site back in 2007 and followed the discussion forums for about 6 months or so.

You asked, so here goes... The affair isn't really over yet. OW first talked about breaking up a couple of weeks ago. She is starting to feel guilty about her husband and child (who are living in the other country). I was upset/hurt/angry and we argued on several different occasions. I said I couldn't spend time with her for a while since we both need time to think. The more time away from her, the more I want to go back to my wife, but I'm afraid it's the opposite for the OW. Tonight when I got home there were 5 emails from her in my inbox... all apologizing. (I did reply to a couple of them because I felt bad for her)

Yes. My life is a mess. But this discussion has really helped me. I won't even mention reconciliation to my wife if I haven't completely ended the affair first.

And just when are you planning on ending the affair?

You don't feel bad for your wife's massive heart damage but you feel bad for the poor OW's skinned knee?

Oh, jeeze! You post that you are in a current A NOW?
I wasted my time reading!
You admit that you know about MB principles (back in 2007)

You know the routine.
You have to QUIT the OW. I'm sure you know the advice you are getting here is for people who are trying to recover their M's.

We can't help you decide to end your affair. It is your descision. We can only tell you that it is ethically WRONG.

Before you decide to screw with your W brains anymore- you need to man up and either end the A - or decide you M is over and move on.

This is not a cake eating site. We are here to encourage positive M's through hard work. NOT help WS decided the fate of their A's.

Your OW is going home. You are being dumped. Dumped for her real family. Don't go mess with your BS life because you have been dumped.

Invest in the book, Surviving An Affair (SAA)and read it ASAP!



I appreciate your honesty.

Fred, what's happening is exactly what Dr. Harley describes. Your affair is dying a natural death. And, it needs to die!
You have been living in a fantasy with a woman that is MARRIED!

The only thing that makes this worse is that you are willing to continue lying even though you now know it's the wrong thing to do. The reason you are willing to do this is to protect yourself from YOUR pain and deflect the pain that others will feel for as long as possible....in short, it's all about YOU and what YOU want and how this will all make YOU feel.

Your gut is telling you to get real and to be honest! Your self centeredness is crying out like the selfish child you have allowed to have control.

Don't you think that today would be a good day to start being honest. Start by thinking about your wife only!

I think that you should still try to work it out. It does sound as if you are really not at the point of calling it quits becasue you still have questions of should I go or leave. When you are at this place I don't think that you should make any drastic decisions because if you do, you will probably always look over your shoulder and wonder and think if you made the right decision. You might have more pain, doubts and bad feelings for her which you will express to other people that can last a lifetime. I have seen this behavior in many people that have gotten a divorce, they are still bitter towards their ex. The truth is if you yourself get yourself cleaned up and do whatever you possibly can for yourself and for her that one day you can leave with the least amoun of pain for yourself.

Yes, get counseling. Use Steve Harlely here at Marriage Builders. I have counseled with him once and it was awesome. Have you read any of the books that Willard Harley has written? If not you have to if you really want to make a difference in your marriage. I have a wayward husband for almost 2 1/2 years now. Even though he will not quit I have seen a lot of change in the both of us because of Dr. Harley's books. Start with His Needs Her Needs.

Not to judge, but why are your parents appalled? You had an affair, are they appalled at you? You marriage can be fixed if your wife is willing. If she is not willing you still can do things to see if your marriage can be saved or not. You keep on moving forward.

I have asked many many people what I should do, but it boils down to you all by yourself going through your own healing and struggles and moving forward to really really help your marriage along. Bottom line you have to do whatever you can to change your marriage. When you do, this will be the most rewarding thing for you. As far as a timeline to stay in your marriage is also a struggle which I struggle with. I believe that an answer to this would be better answered by Steve Harley. Please use him even if your wife will not at this time.

As far as your lease goes ask the manager of the complex or call some credit bureau that might have the answer. If you are willing to explain some of your story maybe they will be understanding and not hold this against you.

Cindy