GL, like I said, if you expect tolerance, you are going to have to be a little more tolerant and open minded of OTHERS. Tolerance does cut both ways.

Surely, you feel that others have the right to disagree WITH YOU since you disagree and contradict MB principles?

None of us are entitled to not be challenged. So, if you contradict MB principles, you can probably expect other posters to challenge you.

My suggestion, again, would be to try to keep an open mind and rather than trying to fix others, focus on FIXING YOURSELF FIRST. Fix your own marriage FIRST before you try and fix others.

Good luck!

Thank you, ML, you are making my point for me. I didn't say I wasn't tolerant. I can handle a debate, but there is no reason you should just tell me I am just flat out wrong. As I said I expected to be challenged. I expected a debate. And my mind is so open that you can't even glue it closed. I never said no one could disagree with me. But just because my marriage is not perfect that doesn't mean that I might not have good advice for someone else. I don't understand why you would say something like that. I really hope you are able to learn to listen to what is being said. You only seem to tell me how much I don't understand about myself. You only seem to keep making it sound like you are never wrong, as if just because my marriage is not solid I can't possibly have any good advice for anyone. I'm sorry but to me that is just rude. Which is why I used your posts (the two big one's in red) to make my point in my previous point. You have not offered me any advice on how to help my marriage only told me that I don't deserve to try to help anyone else. And that high horse attitude is going to really upset some one some day. I am sorry that I am not allowing myself to back down from you, but I don't see how you are better than I am.

Btw, would you like a potato chip?

Bwahahaha.....I'm cryin over here lol...the potatoe chip has a special place in my heart....if you didn't know......*sigh* ok I'll shut up now before I am *censored*

Why not? Aren't you tolerant of other opinions as you claim? Can you not see how you contradict yourself in this paragraph? You claim to be "tolerant" but then say I shouldn't tell you that you are wrong... huh? If you ARE wrong, there most certainly is a reason to tell you. Or is it only ok for you to tell others they are wrong, but not ok for them to tell you that you are wrong? How is that tolerant? How is that not hypocritical? You demand "tolerance" from others but practice none yourself.


This post of yours does not demonstrate open mindedness at all. Just the opposite, it demonstrates close mindedness to anyone who challenges you or says you are "wrong." However, if you expect to be challenged, I suspect you won't be disappointed if you continue to post opinions that are short sighted and clearly contradictory to Dr. Harley's.

I would again point out that folks come here to learn about MArriage Builders, Lacey, not about our personal, uneducated, inexperienced opinions about marital recovery. [when your own marriage is in deep trouble] I don't know about you, but I am not a trained psychologist. I only know how to sell soft drinks. That is why I stick to Marriage Builders concepts when talking to newcomers. They don't come here to hear my crap, they come here to learn about MB.


It does mean that you don't know how to fix your own marriage so its unlikely you can help others fix theirs. On the other hand, Dr Harley has saved thousands of marriages. You can't even fix your own marriage, how do you expect to fix others? Would you take weight loss advice from a person who is grossly overweight? Ask yourself that.


No thanks, I'm on a diet.

lacey,

Could part of your problem with your H be that he is feeling overwhelmed trying to carry the full financial burden for your family?

Are you both in agreement with you being a SAHM?

I suggest that you give MB a try. At least fill out the EN questionaire with your H and try fulfilling his EN's.

Step back before you react and say things that you regret. It is one thing to observe and say you are angry (calmly), it's entirely another thing to act out on your emotion. Your anger is just a manifestation of the hurt you are feeling because your H is withdrawn from the M.

If you do the EN's then it will be easier to do a plan A.

And no more relationship talk right now. I think all your questions about your relationship is stressing your H right now. Come here and vent, don't vent to your H right now.

I also suggest that you move back into your bedroom. You sleeping on the couch is not bringing you any closer to your H. It just keeps you further apart from each other emotionally, causing a further downward spiral in your relationship.

Give the EN thing a try. What do you have to lose? Is what you have been doing working for you? I think not. It is why you are here asking for help. So just give this MB thing a try, won't you?

Best wishes,

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Thank you Miss M. I do have the EN's printed out. I have mine filled in, but I haven't given him his yet. Because like you said he doesn't want to talk about it. I am really thinking about sleeping in the bed tonight. And right now we are really having money problems. And again I offered to get a job over night, but he wants to take this burden on himself. I am going continue to try and sell the stuff that I make. And hopefully pretty soon will make some money?.... And he wants to concentrate on that right now. And when we are able to buy food again, we will be able to concentrate on our marriage.

GL, if your H wants to be the financial supporter of the family tell us what you are doing to support his efforts? Where are you making cuts in the household budget. Are you being his cheerleader? Are you remembering to thank him for his efforts? Remember that most men have admiration as one of their top EN's, how are you doing filling that EN? Are you keeping a tidy home for when he comes home from working hard for you? Do you have your son clean and ready to cuddle or play with dad at the end of the day?

That's not true at all, GL. Melody offered you advice about a month ago. Here are some portions I think are key:



Based on what you have written, you have certainly put in more effort than your H. But I don't believe you have followed the advice given: Stop LBs, Meet ENs and spend 15 hours a week giving each other Undivided Attention (no kids, family members, etc.)

One thing I've noticed in this thread is how you try talking with/to him and he doesn't want to. Being honest about how you feel is important to share, but it shouldn't dominate all your conversations. I would bet a lot of money that Conversation is NOT one of his top five ENs, so the time you're spending trying to have a conversation about your marriage is not building his Love Bank.

The other thing I've noticed is that you were talking about giving each other space, spending more time apart, etc. BAD IDEA. While this may avoid LBs, it will do nothing to help you two fall back in love with each other. It is anathema to the tried-and-tested Marriage Builders principles.

The answer to your question is really quite simple, it's just not easy.

Lacey, the other thing to remember that's so important is that it doesn't matter if you ARE meeting your H's ENs if you haven't FIRST stopped doing any Love Busting. LBs poke holes in your Love Bucket; no matter how many ENs you meet, if the LBs are there, the ENs will just keep leaking out of the holes, and his love for you will be empty.

Please do the LB questionnaire first. Work on eliminating the LBs consistently for at least a month or two, til you have changed your habits.

Then work on the ENs.

GL,I have a lot of respect for your MIL. And she says that you have been a huge support for her and she cares a great deal about you.

Why do you think she sent you here?

MOST of us on this board are here to help people save their marriages.

Dr. Harley says it is a narrow path. If both spouses follow his program, he guarantees you will have a wonderful marriage. He makes it clear that you cannot pick and choose which part to implement and which to throw out, and still expect the same results. EVERY part of the program is KEY to making it work.

Most of the advice you receive here is for the purpose of helping you implement Dr. H's program.

Did you come here so that you could share your ideas of what love is/should be? Or did you come here to save your marriage?

If you aren't here to save your marriage, then a lot of the people here would rather invest their time in helping someone who is.

If you are here to save your marriage, I suggest you come with a humble, teachable heart.

We have traveled a road that you DO NOT want to travel.

We have information we wish we had known when we were your age.

We want to share it with you and save you the worst heartache you could possibly suffer.

You have to be willing to hear and learn.

I know it's hard to BELIEVE that love and marriage is just about a silly love bank and love deposits and withdrawals. It seems to take the romantic, we-were-meant-to-be-together part out of it, doesn't it?

But WHAT IF this IS the path to that romantic love you are longing for?

Are you willing to try a program that has been fully implemented by many couples and proven successful when followed?


Your marriage is headed for infidelity whether you want to admit it yet or not. Maybe not this month, or this year, or in five years. But because of your naive thinking, you are leaving yourself and your husband open to great agony in the future. I pointed this out to you on Fred's thread, but I think you breezed over it. I was not attacking you. I was being honest with you. I would appreciate you reading what I said there and coming back here with your thoughts.

GL, I was wrong. It was not Fred's thread that I quoted you on. It was the skank-ho thread. I have gone there and copied my posts so that, if you are up for it, we can discuss it further.

Although the example you gave was not you flirting, you did express your belief that flirting is not dangerous to a marriage. That is the thinking that I would like to challeng you on. Because Dr. Harley believes it is very dangerous to a marriage and to work his program, you must protect your marriage from that type of hurtful, disrespectful behavior.

Here's my previous post:




You do realize those are words quoted over and over by EVERY WS that comes on this board.




It means that you are willing to let someone other than your husband meet your ENs.

Have you read anything Dr. H says about ENs?????

If so, you already know why this is not a safe thing for your marriage.




That would be because you both feel insecure and not safe in your marriage. You know you have competition. Dr. H says there should NEVER be competition in a marriage. You should be protecting each other from competition.







So you are not getting some important ENs met by your husband. And because you allow flirting (poor boundaries), your marriage is NOT affair-proof and is actually set up to suffer an affair.

What is needed for an affair?

ENs not being met.

Poor boundaries.

Right now you have both. You are in dangerous waters. It's time to PROTECT your marriage, not justify why it's OK to RISK it.

And then my next post:





Most people don't LOOK for an affair.

But they do exactly what you are doing...

Leave themselves open to one because they are sure they will never have one.








An important FIRST step to that would be to eliminate any opportunities for other people to make any deposits in either of your love banks.



Well, at your age, neither did most of the FWS's here.

But then 10 or 15 years down the road (and 2, 3, 4, or more kids)....

with love banks let open all that time...

eventually some OP hit enough ENs at the same time the spouse at home had been neglecting a few or love bustings and making withdrawals.

That's why Dr. H says GIVEN THE RIGHT CONDITIONS, ANYONE can have an affair.


You are young in your marriage.

It's a great time to protect it.

BEFORE the damage is done.

I'm telling you...
you don't want to live through what most of us here have.

Many of us said the same thing years ago that you are saying now.





Yeah, my FWH had many chances to.

But it didn't happen until we had been married for 19 years...pretty much happily married and in love. In fact, he even told OW during that month before the AF kicked in that he LOVED ME.

So what happened????

He had an open love bank...didn't see the harm in OW flirting (meeting his admiration EN), then emailing or phoning a woman other than his wife.

He loved me, but he didn't protect me or our marriage.

And eventually, he started saying to me all the typical things any WS says....I don't love you, haven't for years, blah, blah, blah.






Given enough time

and

the right circumstances (like a marriage in a slump)


and

it does.




Of course not. But you might eventually have sex with the one that deposited enough units to your low love bank to make your feelings stir.






I'm really unsure why you are defending yourself so much here.






When you've read enough stories here, you will see that it is very, very similar.

All the WS's started out saying the same thing you are saying

and

did not protect the marriage early on.




But it does make you a woman that is a danger to all her friends' marriages because she considers it acceptable to flirt and meet their husbands' ENs, at least their admiration EN, which is most often very high for men.

You are hurting their marriages and your own every time you flirt or allow someone to flirt with you.

Maybe it doesn't.

BUT...

Most affairs DO start out that way.

Why risk your marriage?

GL, if you do not reach the point of understanding why flirting is hurtful and dangerous to a marriage, you will never be willing to put into place those extraordinary precautions that affair-proof marriages.

That is why I am "harping" on this topic. It is THAT important.

GL, I have skimmed over this thread, and I am confused.

Do you suspect that your husband is having an affair?

Some of the statements he is making sound very familiar, sound very waywardish.

At minimum, perhaps he is indulging himself in intimate conversation (as you did with xbf) and having an EA. That could make him foggy.

I know you don't yet believe that you were having an EA, but from what you have said, it certainly sounds like one. I hope you realize that it is CRITICAL to your marriage that you have no contact with xbf ever again. He is a threat to your marriage.


Have you been snooping on your husband? Have you found anything suspicious? I am sorry, but there are many red flags.

Good job SMB. You have said so eloquently what needed to be said. One of my daughters is probably GL's age and I would tell her the same thing... to protect her.

What IS that saying??? Oh yeah... if I only knew then what I know now.

GL, again, no one is picking on you. Just trying to head you off the path to destruction.

Dancing Machine,

I am very confused.

Am I correct that GL is your DIL?

Do you live close by???

Some of your questions sounded like you suspect he is having an affair. Do you???

And why all the games on the board???

Hi SMB,

Yes. This is why I was upset when everyone jumped on her.

Yes. We live less than a mile from each other in the same town.

I don't know. I hope not. She doesn't think so, though. I don't trust this "friend" of his, that's for sure.

What games? I was keeping my mouth shut so the "Shadow of Gray" wasn't looming over her here. I just felt like I might be a detriment to her getting help here so I didn't say anything immediately.

Is that what you are talking about?

Thanks,

Charlotte

I'm sure you want her to receive help here or you never would have sent her here. But she's got to be willing to listen and LEARN about DR. H's program. Her marriage is clearly in a crisis of some sorts, and posting on other newbie's threads about her opinions based on her feelings isn't going to help her or those she is posting to.

You know that.

I hope she will continue to post on her thread, because her marriage needs MB.



Are you able/willing to help her snoop? Because she needs to know what she's up against (whether there is an OW).





Of course she doesn't think so. None of us thought it possible in our own marriages. But I agree with you, the "friend" doesn't sound like a safe situation for her marriage. What concerns me most is her husband's comments to GL. It all sounds very familiar.




Posting on her thread as if you didn't know her.






I confess I don't know what you mean here. I have not spent much time on your thread (other than to see a few bravo's for your bulldog), so maybe I'm out of the loop on why you feel her relationship to you would be a threat to her getting help here. I don't need to know, though, so no need to explain.

It doesn't matter to me who her family is. All that matters to me is whether she is willing to learn MB. If she's not, then I have no reason to post to her thread. So far, she has shown little to no interest in actually learning what Dr. H says about saving marriages.

I hope that changes...for her sake.

I certainly won't bash her for no good reason. But I will deliver the well-meaning 2X4s when her thinking is dangerous to her marriage.