Worth repeating:


Zen, I told Coho that if she wasn't just playing you yet again, she can START to prove her worth by you and her taking her cell phone, her computer, and her car to Goodwill and donating all of it. (you can always use a good tax writeoff, right?)

Ask her to do this. See what she does.

Neither one of them is here or posting. I find that telling. I think Zen took her back.

Neither one of them is here or posting. I find that telling.

Do you blame them?? Better to let the dust settle for awhile. I hope he takes the advice to have in legal documents that he gets everything too include full custody before considering trying again with her. He needs to be in a position of strength before he trys again. But I don't think he will protect himself and the kids legally. If he doesn't he will regret it and its impact on the kids. If this goes south once again she may well turn on him and get custody leaving him with only minimal custody of the kids no matter how much she promises she will not right now.

Wise words Mel! Z, in my humble opinion, there are only two options in this thread that make sense to me:

1. Mel's Plan (see above)
2. Plan FU

Nuff said.

(PS: I'm soooooo happy Coho's thread got locked down)

ITA ... I just don't see ZW having the inner strength to actually DO what is necessary.

Just a thought/theory ... but I seem to recall that ZW mentioned that Coho was his first and only sex partner ... and that situation doesn't appear to be that uncommon for BH's here.

If my memory is correct on this fact ... do any of you see a direct correlation between being a virgin prior to meeting their WW and "doormat" status post-A.

I can recall a few BH who have shared that fact with us and almost all (actually ALL that I can recall) of them remain in some form of marital limbo to this day.

Thoughts???

Well, I guess you can add my name to that BH list.

And I can see how your theory makes sense....

Not posting because yes, it has gotten to the point of embarrassment and I question whether or not I am a doormat for still wanting my marriage. Also our internet is excruciatingly slow this morning. Also, Coho's thread got locked because of the abusive nature of the recent posts.

On the legal front, I am taking steps to protect myself and my kids but will not post details here until it is locked down.

The virgin/doormat thing? Yeah, could be, I wonder that about myself. My mother was a doormat for 26 years in her abusive marriage.

I am going to let the dust settle. We're leaving town for a few days. I have a call to Dr. Harley in the morning.

I will continue to use MB as long as I get helpful and caring advice. Thanks everyone for all you've done for me.

I am putting myself and my children first. I'll leave it at that.

ZW,

I hope you didn't take offense to my observation, but I'd imagine that most posts feel like we're "piling on" right now. Anyway, it is something that I've noticed here and haven't articulated up to this point, but I think it is worth considering for the "WHY" factor of how you are proceeding at this point ... maybe even worth mentioning to Dr. Harley to get his perspective on how this fact may cloud your judgment.

As a fellow BH ... you really do deserve better than what you've received ... but ultimately, its up to you to decide what you can accept. My only hope is that you make these decisions with a clear head, and not under some manipulative influence from a PROVEN manipulator.

This theory reminds me of and old saying that I've heard for years that tries to explain the dynamics of why women tend to have the upper hand in most marital relationships ..."Women have half the money and all of the pu$$y".

Just think about that saying with regard to how Coho has interacted in her romantic relationships ... she seems to understand the value of her "assets" and the status they provide her ... but more importantly, YOU need to realize how her "assets" affect your judgment.

Good post MyRev.

As an aside, did you know you can click on "who's online" and find out who is online and what they are doing? I was sort of surprised to see Coho's user name there. As in...what could she possibly want to read on these forums? But I don't want to get Zen's thread locked as well so I'll refrain from saying more.

Except this:

ZW, I'm surprised your thread is still here (and Coho's). I thought you got excellent advice re: copying the entire contents of both threads and asking the mods to remove them.

Are you and Coho going away TOGETHER for a few days?

MyRev,

Yes, very true, she is very aware of her allure. We're leaving with the children to go to my parent's vacation home. This was her suggestion, sounds good to me. I am not reengaged in the relationship in any way right now, so allow me that. I am still a father and I need to take care of my kids. I need a break. They need a break. If there's any tiny part of me that wants this to work, I don't think I should leave her alone, but then I also know she's in the sink or swim position. Heck, she already sunk. I really like Lousygolfer's statement about hitting bottom. There is no bottom. It's a matter of deciding to climb up again. I will protect my children and myself first, but I will never give up on my wife as a human being who I love. Whether that's in the marriage or not, she is the mother of my children. There's a lifeline out there for her, but I'm not holding it. She is.

Legal steps are in motion. I'll be back this weekend.

Thanks everyone.

Did she hand you her cell phone and her computer(s)? Why not?

IF NOTHING ELSE, she should have been willing to relinquish access to the outside world for now.

Do you hear what you're saying? You have to keep a leash on her to keep her from rutting?

Jeez.

Zen, you know, you can call and request an emergency phone call with the Harleys. Maybe you should at the very least allow yourself this one little bit of instruction so you do the right thing.

Wow, Cat--that's a great idea. I'd be curious as to what they say. Though I doubt the Harleys will tell Zen to kick Coho to the curb.

Maybe this one angers me so much because Coho came here thumbing her nose at everyone, thinking she was smarter than everyone. I guess it felt different than when a poster here comes to tell us their WS fell off the wagon again.

I see Coho as an addict. She's searching for that high. Zen doesn't give that to her. Until she deals with her addiction, she'll always be a serial cheater. And like most addicts, she really thinks she can play the system to her advantage and win. And she doesn't seem to care who she steps on to achieve her goals.

I can't speak for Zen, Cat, but he may have meant this differently than how you seem to have interpretted it. On D-day my H didn't want me anywhere near him, but he was also concerned that I might do something stupid -- as in to my own physical being. I went to my sister's and my H checked in with her by phone a lot to make sure I was functioning.

Because Zen cares for her and loves her as the mother of his children (as he stated), perhaps he's concerned about her well-being and safety and therefore doesn't think she should be alone. We're not there. He is.

FWIW, I think that's honorable.

Just a thought...

Cat, thank you for the advice. I have her cell phone. I installed Spectorsoft on her computer last night which records ALL activity. She called a lawyer for me this morning, but I already have an appointment. She is continuing to offer an uncontested divorce. She just turned down a job offer when we desperately need money. I know these are just symbolic bits that don't amount to much, but enough of them and enough time will tell. I am protecting myself and my kids.

Please stop being insulting. It's an addiction and she's my wife. Yes, she has done unspeakably horrid things to me and I'm as angry and hurt as I've ever been, but I won't turn to hate. My sister is a recovering heroin addict who repeatedly used and abused her family (me), so I am familiar with some of this dynamic.

I am using my best ability to find my way through this and I know you are trying to beat it into my head, and I know this is from your experience, but please don't insult. It just doesn't help anything.

I have a call to Dr. Harley at 7:00 tomorrow.

I mean 7:30 am

Good luck ZW. I admire your strength. I pray the best for you regardless of your decision.

OH, I'm pro-marriage, so I really hope Zen finds a way to get this to work.

However, IMO he is MUCH too weak from all the self-esteem pummeling she has given him the last year to be able to stand up for himself. The only way it will be safe for them to be in the same house right now, IMO, is for her to first hit rock bottom.

And Zen, yes, she CAN hit rock bottom. It's called Tough Love. It's called you stop enabling her by feeling sorry for her. It's called you FORCING her to take each and every step imaginable to ensure she never is in a room with another man alone again, she never gets within 20 feet of a bottle of booze, and she never goes ANYWHERE without you again for the rest of your lives.

Are you ready for that? Because that is what you are signing up for.

I just want to make sure you are looking at the big picture. Not just about feeling like her knight in shining armour this time.

How many more times can you don that armour?

ETA: Zen, I'm sorry if I'm offending you, but you have a knack for glossing over - or perhaps sparing us - the nastier aspect of what you're dealing with. I'm trying to make sure that you aren't doing this in your head. Because if you're sugar-coating what she did, to yourself, just to keep your marriage, all I can say is that is exactly the wrong thing to do to your children.

They are the ones I care the most about. If they don't know what happened yet, they will. And the next steps you take will determine how big of a detrimental effect the whole thing has on them for the rest of their lives.

If you are taking her back because you 'love her' and don't want her - or yourself - to be alone, I urge you to tell the Harleys this. So they can give you more directed advice.

Because if your kids watch this yoyo act repeat itself over and over again (and that's all I can see from this side of the screen based on her words and actions), you can bet money they will either become adulterers or enablers themselves.

I'm glad you're calling Dr. Harley, Zen. You are in good hands.

Did Coho quit her bar job? I hope so. I know you guys need money but there's got to be something else she can do. You mentioned she turned down another offer. Was it also at a bar?

I agree she has an addiction but I'm not so sure it's just alcohol--or even if it's alcohol. She seems to be a thrill seeker--addicted to the thrill of the hunt. Of course, I'm not an expert and have no business analyzing her.

In Cat's defense, we are all very angry with Coho first and foremost for what she selfishly and thoughtlessly did to you and your children. Secondarily, she came here and abused the goodwill of countless people--many of whom are themselves betrayed spouses. Talk about leaving a pile of corpses in your wake. So while you have to take care of you and I understand that, I hope you will see that Coho would be hard pressed to find a lot of goodwill towards her on this board. If she needs some help, I would strongly suggest she find another group to get it.

Why does she need a computer?