Sorry but I consider myself (the former myself) being on the first list. My A lasted the predictable two years. I disagree about your continuem theory. OW in my case fits precisely into list two. She cheated on her first H as an exit affair and leaving 3 small children behind. Then D's H number 2 after a short time. Then seeks out her "true soul mate", my H, in this continuing cycle of ME ME ME ME.

I'd reverse the two. I think number 2 is more common. Tons of personality disordered among the WSs.

The lists are basically starting points, I thought. Sure, those on Type 1 will develop Type 11 characteristics as they become intoxicated on the affair, but that is not their natural normal state, but a temporary state.

I read rprynne's points more carefully, and I can now see what he means. I read Mel's point, and I agree with her about the difference between the basic character, in which pleasing oneself is the normal way of operating, and the temporary state of mind during an affair, when "me first" also applies.

I can see, though, that Pep did not describes these as continuous behaviours and I agree with her also, so now I'm confused and need to rest.

No, he wasn't a sociopath. Sociopaths have no empathy. He did have some empathy. He just just did not know right from wrong.

But why wouldn't it be a matter of morals then? I have been on both sides of this and I will tell you it very much is a matter of morals. VERY MUCH. The difference is if I am willing to KILL THE CONSCIENCE or not. Today I am not willing. I allow the conscience to BREATHE and THRIVE because I love morality and justice.

Not so in my wayward days. The conscience was "compartmentalized" and SMOTHERED. But a person can only compartmentalize to a degree. The truth starts squeeking out around the edges and becomes problematic. Drinking massive amounts of alcohol often didn't help.

((( Jean36 )))

This is interesting Pep and I think you are really onto something. For the record I'm the run of the mill (but I think you already know that - you've described me to a T). I don't think the two cross over, I think there are definitely two different sorts of WW. I see it myself here and find it very hard to help the second sort because I don't really understand them. I think the "run of the mills" find their way to MB and we see them here as posters, the "others" are described here by their BHs.

The others find their way "elsewhere".


1. No previous adultery
correct

2. Her adultery choice gnaws her conscience and she has difficulty reconciling her behavior with her beliefs.
Definitely - the result was anxiety attacks and a change in the way I reacted with everyone. When you go against your core beliefs something gives and it's not pretty.

3. Physically suffers with a guilty conscience. Difficulty sleeping, eating, concentrating.
I nearly lost my job through inattention to what I was doing. I couldn't sleep and lost so much weight from not eating that people thought I was seriously ill

4. Has fallen head-over-heels "in love" with OM, which is often an old flame.
Yes, on all counts

5. Has spiritual/religous beliefs she must ignore in order to "follow her heart".
Yes.

6. Cries frequently but privately.
Constantly in the ladies' bathroom at work, crying. Crying in the shower so the water would mask it.

7. May turn to alcohol to numb her conscience.
Started drinking the minute I got home and drank till I could stagger up to bed

8. Feels powerless and overwhelmed by her feelings of desire.
Yep - I thought it was all beyond my control.

9. Hates herself.
I couldn't believe the hard callous person I'd become.

10. Cannot look at her husband or others who trust her without feeling worse, so begins to avoid people who love her.
See above. Drank until I felt I could look at anyone. Avoided contact with family and friends as much as possible.

I agree that this type is more likely to be able to reconnect with their spouse and recover their marriage but I also agree that the emotional connection with the OP is difficult for the BH to overcome. This type goes through bad withdrawals and is of the "life is like living a novel" personality.

ITA with this and I always have.

I have always attributed being an OW to IMMATURITY and SELFISHNESS.

Sounds like a 15-year-old girl, doesn't it?

When I get the sense that a WW posting here falls mostly on this list, it is a pleasure to try and help her. Even if I fail, it's still a pleasure.

Jen is correct, the other type generally do not land here on MB asking for help (although it has happened). However, many BH of such women DO land here .... and it is a conundrum for me, not knowing what to say to him that might help his WW become a loving faithful wife..

Furthermore, I do not think list #2 necessarily describes a sociopath. I think 2Long's WW is an example of a woman who had characteristics from both lists, but mostly from list #2 (I think, but I could be wrong) and I doubt she is a sociopath.

What about Zen's wife?

If someone has these "qualities", I would say they are a sociopath.

Isn't this pretty much the definition of a sociopath?

I say it is the definition of a politician ! :MrEEk:

Ok, or that.

*snort*

This is a really interesting discussion. I would like to see a "WH" version.

I would just point out that when fog is swirling around thick enough to block vision, a mostly Type 1 will look, sound and act lik a mostly Type 2. When they hide behind all that lovely fog, the distinction between right and wrong becomes very, very difficult for them to make, and they believe their own nonsense.

So the question becomes, "Did this person ever have a working conscience?" "Can it be found again?"

Out of this whole discussion, this point makes the most sense to me.

I keep thinking back to the stupid email OW sent me the day I exposed. It seemed like a little bit of both of the Type I and Type II WWs.

<Though she isn't married, so wasn't really a WW...just an OW. But alot of the characteristics still apply.>

“The second list, the same WW after a period of time.”

When I read the first post, I resisted considering the above quote. Of course, I feel like I am an example of the number 1 description, but for the sake of “research” (lol), I decided to see if any of the number 2 list could describe me also (during the A and/or afterwards). What scares me is that if I’m totally honest with myself, I can see that there were times during the A when some of the items on the second list fit me, too.

So, to me, it seems like the lists at least overlap, and it would be next to impossible to really determine which list completely fits a WW poster or spouse of a poster, although I see your point(s), Pep and rpynne.

Hi, Chrysalis -

"Did this person ever have a working conscience?" "Can it be found again?"

Yes, and yes - unless the person is a sociopath?

Rose,
Most BSs at least entertain the question that their WS may have been a very clever sociopath all along. The insanity really is that great as it appears to the BS.

This is from an ANCIENT thread which I was on. (Do you know how totally weird it is going back to first posts? I don't even recognise that person - me) It describes an OM, so I guess it also describes the WH. I found it very true when I first read it. It seems to fit here.

"What the OM wants:

-They want the A to stay w/in bounds

-They thrive on the diversion, the excitement of the illicit, forbidden sex. the variety.

-Some get relief from home. May be having M issues. May have a W that ignores him for kids, work, etc.

-Able to reveal themselves emotionally.

- Doesn't want the R to get serious!!

-He may say "I love you" but he still isn't committing to anything

-Men regard an A as an addition to marriage not as possible replacement

-Most men let the married women know about the restrictions of the R. "I'd never divorce my wife because of the kids." That is the number 1 excuse the OM uses

-The woman's emotional investment flatters the OM but causes discomfort

- Married women are unlikely to end the undiscovered A. It's usually the OM."