As i said let agree to disagree on this one cause from my point of view you are wrong and i wont discuss this further.. As for the sexual activity when they are not at school they are with me and as they both go to single sex schools i doubt they are doing it at school so how about we lay off my kids now.. yes they need to be in their own rooms i agree this is a problem but i wont have you attacking my parenting or their sexual activity please dont mention this again
kez

Im doing a childrens counselling course there is no evidence at all that this is harmful. I asked my daughter what she thinks about sleeping with me she says she is replenishing her love!!! Yes it has messed the sex thing up with us but hubby has played a huge part in this as well. Only last night she had a dream about spiders he put her in with me and he hopped in her bed i didnt know she was there till this morning.. She is a very honest open happy girl who would be the first to tell me if there was a problem. In fact she is so honest she is rude. You co sleep with your baby as long as you need.. Its not a weird concept over here at all. kez

Angry? You have no right to be angry at me im a grown woman doing the best at life i can i dont need you or anyone taking your anger out on me please do not send me anymore posts cause i am not on here to get angry with you and thats how i feel so lay off... ps my children are under constant pediatric care and their SPECIALIST knows they sleep with me and as i pay $300 a visit im sure he would be the first to tell me if i was doing them harm good bye
kez

kewwy and catperson:

I don't usually get involved in these interactions, but I've been getting quite a few complaints lately about attacks on new visitors, so let me make a few comments.

Remember, catperson, kewwy was referred by a friend for help with the problem, affection leads to SF but I don't want it. It's a huge problem in marriage and affects most of them at least at some point. There's lively interaction on this topic because it's so relevant to so many couples.

The issue of children sleeping with parents up to adulthood is a separate issue, and we could have an entire string on that one. But her problem is very specific, and comments should be directed to that issue. She has not asked for advice in knowing what to do with that issue, so advice should not be given. Even though I can help all my friends, neighbors, and relatives learn to have great marriages, I don't offer my assistance unless they ask for it. If I did, most of them would be greatly offended.

Not all women are the same, so my general advice for you, kewwy, does not hit the mark with 100% of women who struggle with this issue. But in general, willingness to make love for most women requires two conditions: (1) they must feel emotionally connected to the man, and (2) they must anticipate having a sexually fulfilling experience themselves. Women who are generally willing to make love (like rosycheeks, I would imagine), can claim that both of these conditions are being met. For most men, on the other hand, those conditions are relevant, but much less relevant. Testosterone is usually the primary motivator for men to make love.

Kewwy, I would guess that neither of these two conditions are being met with your husband. If I'm wrong, it would greatly simplify the solution to your problem, but I'm probably right.

So how do you get to a point where you are emotionally bonded to your husband, and also look forward to a very sexually fulfilling experience for yourself whenever it happens. That's what the focus of this string should be.

I haven't read every post in this string, so someone may have already addressed this approach to the problem. But if not, I'd be happy to give you some direction. If you're interested, give me a little information on whether or not you feel emotionally connected to your husband, and whether or not you enjoy making love to him whenever it happens. I promise that I won't address the issue of sleeping with your adult children unless you ask me to.

Dr. Harley

Thank you so much Dr Harley, i was about to stop posting on here as i was shattered by cats posts.I dont feel connected at all to my h.. And no i dont get anything at all out of sex i hate it.
On here i have been told its my wifely obligation to have sex and this has actually made me worse.
I know i am depressed and i know we need a lock on our bedroom door and i will get this done. But i need to reconnect with him. Please please help us. Im on anti depressants and im thinking of going off them to see if this helps.
kez

kewwy:

The first step will be to figure out how you became emotionally disconnected from your husband, and what he's willing to do to change. In most cases, the disconnect comes from his failure to meet your emotional needs of conversation and affection (without sexual overtones), combined with the Love Busters, demands, disrespect, and anger (usually as part of an effort to force you to have sex with him). The former fails to build Love Bank balances, and the latter destroys whatever deposit had been made in the past. If you have not already done so, in the Basic Concepts section, read BCs 4 (emotional needs) and 6 (love busters) and let me know how your husband has failed to make Love Bank deposits, and how he's made Love Bank withdrawal. The way to become emotionally connected to him is for him to build a large love bank balance in his account. Is he willing to change?

As for the antidepressant medication, I don't know enough about your emotional state of mind to make a recommendation, so I wouldn't want you to change anything right away. But you might discuss Wellbutrin SR with your doctor, since it's the only antidepressant that doesn't seem to affect libido.

I'll deal with the issue of enjoying sex after we've put a plan in place that will help you become emotionally bonded to your husband.

Best wishes,
Dr. Harley

catperson:

I deleted your last two posts because you are continuing to discuss kewwy's sleeping arrangements. She doesn't want to discuss that issue. I've saved both of your posts and would be happy to talk to you about them through private email You're doing a great job helping a lot of people, so I don't want to discourage you. But, as I've written repeatedly, disrespectful judgments get us nowhere when we try to persuade others.

Best wishes,
Dr. Harley

Kewwy, I'm coming at this from the opposite side from you. I've been the higher libido partner for our whole relationship but a couple of years ago my husband had started to turn me down for SF far more than he was accepting, and he was never initiating.

With the help of His Needs, Her Needs (and originally the emotional needs information on this site) I have learned a lot about what I wasn't doing for him that he needed. I had neglected my physical appearance after having my first baby (who was incredibly hard work and a poor sleeper) and gained weight. I've had to work hard over the last year to lose the weight and dress nicely etc. I was also not being understanding of him because my self esteem was so low from being rejected for SF all the time.

My point is.. that its hard for both of you to be in this situation, I felt it was soul destroying to desire someone so much who had very little interest in me and my husband felt bad for rejecting me and under pressure from me all the time.

Its not just your issue to work on, but he's not here. However it was enormously helpful when my husband first tentatively started to let me know what would help him to desire me more. This was the issue that got me looking for help but the work I did on accepting him and his needs and trying to meet them got him interested in working to meet mine and things are improving for us all the time. My number one need is Honesty and Openness and for the first time in ten years he is understanding why this is important to me and striving to meet it. Its incredible what can happen through using these concepts. Do you really want a sexless marriage or would you be willing to work towards the possible outcome of a fulfilling sex life for BOTH of you?

Hi Kewwy:

I've been following your thread. I don't know if I have any specific helpful advice for you; I think it's wonderful that Dr. Harley has posted here and offered his advice.

I have gone through periods of very low, to no desire for SF with my husband. And I go through periods of extreme SF desire. The difference for me always comes down to how connected I feel to him, emotionally. While I recognized this before I came here to MB, I didn't understand until after I'd been here that the responsibility for building that emotional connection rested with both of us and that further, I can only deal with what was under my control, which is what I do and say.

I wish I could tell you I've been enormously successful since discovering this; I haven't. But I have come to have new respect for "fake it 'til you make it' as it does seem to have some positive spillover for me. And I've also come to understand that there I things I do--intentionally or subconsciously--to sabatoge that emotional connection and that they mostly have to do with our children. It's easy for me to concentrate on our kids as a way of avoiding the volatile areas in our marriage.

So as I said, no specific advice, but I hope that these observations are helpful.

Hey Kez,

I was going to come on and see if I could draw the focus back to En's and LB's again but discovered Dr Harley bet me to it. I am so happy the thread is going back on course. Still loving you sweety, and thank you Dr Harley.

I think having 8 months in hospital whilst i was pregnant started it. But even before then we were having huge finacial worries having lent all our money to my most favorite person in the world my uncle. My uncle used all our money and i mean all of it after we had sold our house so it was a large sum. My uncle went broke a suicided. I think i slowly retreated into myself then. My Husband was very supporting but i cant talk about this man who i loved so much cause my husband now hates him. Then i got pregnant through ivf and was in hospital from the time i was 4 weekd pregnant till i delivered at 32 weeks.. Its a whole new life in hospital and when you are in for such a long time it becomes home. Then the kids came home and were in our bed and you know the rest. Also i was reluctant to mention because it is not an excuse but i have a cronic lung disease and im waiting for a transplant so at times i am very tired. Dont get me wrong i work very hard on my fitness and i am amazingly fit but i do get tired. We also go to bed at very different times, but lately i have been trying to sit up with hubby to try and bond more. I am very keen to work all of this out.We have been to a counsellor but to be honest i did get the feeling she was a man hater and she did pick on him when i feel we are both at fault. I would like to thank you so much for helping me regards kez

Ah but in all you like i have had a quick look around the site but need to have a deeper look and set goals in place.But thanks for the tip and ill keep you posted
kez

i seriously want to work it out i think about sex a lot so i know it is still in me so i am willing to do what ever it takes. Thanks so much for your imput cause i know i make him feel bad and that makes me feel bad
kez

Ill ask my specialist about that anti depressant hpoefully we can get it here in Australia kez

Kez - have you purchased any of Dr Harley's books? "Fall in love, stay in love" is the best al-round book to get the best of all his plans etc.

Have you totally cut off all contact with the OM? Your relationship with him will also dramatically affect your relationship with your husband.

Do you look forward to chatting with OM?
Do you miss it when you don't chat with him?

If you answer yes, you are in the beginnings of an emotional affair. You need to cut off all contact to give your marriage the best chance of recovery.

Ok - now I see you are in Australia - you can get his books online from Koorong or in the store as well.

I also recommend you purchase Dr Harleys Basic Concepts DVD - it is very watchable and you can order it from this site - it's only about $20 by the time you pay postage and get it here. The DVD is excellent.

kewwy:

As you become more familiar with my Basic Concepts, you will pay more attention to the way your husband makes you feel, and come to understand how that affects your emotional connection to him. When he does something that makes you feel good, he's making Love Bank deposits, and when he makes you feel bad, he's making withdrawals. If he's willing to make changes in his life so that he makes far more deposits than withdrawals, your emotional connection to him will be made. Once that happens, we may not have to worry about the second issue of enjoying sex.

One problem you may face is that the loss of your savings to your uncle, his suicidal death, and other factors that you have not mentioned may have left you with chronic depression for most of your married life. If you think about it, depression is a state of mind that makes you unhappy. Think about how that would affect the Love Bank. It would make it very difficult for your husband to make deposits. If you're unhappy and he's around, there will be withdrawals to his LB account without him doing anything to upset you. And even when he tries to make you happy, your depression can interfere with the effect it would usually have.

So one issue I'd like you to think about is, what's triggering your depression now? Is there anything your husband can do to make you so happy that your depression is completely gone, at least for a while? Does he do or say things that seems to trigger a depressive reaction? Or does your depression seem to come upon you without any apparent cause?

A lung disease can cause anyone to be depressed, but it seems as if you were depressed long before it was diagnosed. Being tired can also trigger depression, but you have probably noticed that there are times in the day when you have more energy.

Your situation is admittedly complicated, but your health issues will not stand in the way of a very romantic relationship with your husband if he's a willing participant. Answer my questions regarding what he can do to make you happy, and what he tends to do that makes you sad. Then, I'd like your husband to communicate with me on this string with his reaction to my proposal that he start making LB deposits, and avoiding withdrawals.

To those on the Forum who want to join in, I'll delete any post that mentions kewwy's sleeping arrangements. I know you mean well and you have a point, but in this case, I want your advice to avoid that issue.

Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

Kew, how much of your marital money did your uncle blow? 100K? 40K?

I am trying to think up a way you could make it up to your husband somehow.....or deal with it somehow in some way.

Wow, kewwy, those sentences that Dr. Harley wrote about depression resonated with me. My husband battles depression and I have been frustrated at times trying to figure out how to make those LB deposits. There have even been times I've felt that just being in the same room as he, is not doing either of us any good! The depression issue that Dr. Harley cites could be the cause.

And if this is true, and you are trying to strengthen the emotional bond with your husband in order to improve your enjoyment of SF, then your underlying depression could very well be working against you. I'm not a physician of course, so I couldn't say. Since you have a lung condition you must have a regular doctor? Could you ask him about ADs that don't interfere with libido? Dr. Harley has suggested Wellbutrin. I've heard the same thing about that drug. In fact, Wellbutrin was originally marketed here in the States as a drug to help smokers kick the habit. It was discovered later that it had an anti-depressant effect as well. For a time, my H was on a 'cocktail' of Wellbutrin and Prozac. Perhaps Wellbutrin or a similar med is available for you?