That's a great attitude, dkd. I'm working on that also. If I choose to do something, then I should do it because I want to, not because I want kudos.

My husband also does this--he calls it 'husband points' and while it can be amusing, the premise behind it (that he is acknowledged and rewarded for everything) is not. I am really working on acknowledging what he does since admiration is big EN for him. But sometimes, I'm just plain dense.

Just to clarify, probably mostly for me. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to be appreciated. You just can't expect appreciation for what other's don't want from you. And I don't know that it's a good idea to appreciate what you don't want.

Every year, my mother puts in a lot of work to invite everyone over for Christmas, with the decorations, and the gifts, and the dinner and all. Every year, no one appreciates it because nobody really cares, and every year she feels drained and silently (sometimes not silently) disappointed. She's getting better about this though.

I used to mow the lawn and my W would always try to tell me that the lawn looked good. I didn't need her to say it, and the reality was (I'm pretty sure) that she would have rather got a lawn service and not have to watch the little ones for a couple hours every Saturday. I did enjoy mowing the lawn, but if I hadn't, this would have been a lose-lose all around.

dkd, I should add, that I've been working to change my attitude for a long time, and have been getting more consistent with it. But I have a fear of depression, so the last time my H went away, I made a deliberate effort to check my attitude in the morning, afternoon and evening, and to pick an activity to "reset," like taking a brisk walk. I was doing so well with that, that it surprised me when I realized when DH got back that I was again falling into that old pattern when I got home, looking to him to do this, to have that confidence I can lean on. Even though I was doing fine all day at work.

The same way, until your wife has her own confidence back, I think she would really really benefit from spending time with you at your confident attractive best. That it will be very contagious to her, to help until she gets back on her feet. I think her wanting a change in your family, like living apart, may just be a lack of confidence in your family's ability to create a life that is special and meaningful to both of you. Which is why I am so glad that you are showing her differently.

I hear you about getting reset. I actually went down to Galveston yesterday, by myself. I just wanted to get away and relax for a couple hours. I actually had a ton of fun and feel great today. Except for the sunburn that is.

aside: As I was there, I was thinking about how it probably seemed like I didn't ever want to go to the beach before. I actually love it, it's just that it's not relaxing with 3 kids to watch after and play with. I can't read a book, I can't put headphones on. I never really ask my W to go with me, because I knew she'd want to take the kids, and would balk about getting a babysitter during the day. I wish I had let her know how great it was for me.

You're dead on about her not having any confidence in us. She said from the start that she didn't feel like she could be herself around me, that I essentially brought her down. I am trying to demonstrate that It doesn't have to be that way.

Alot of people have told me that she will realize what she's missing whenever I start dating someone else, that's when she'll want me back. I don't think that's the case, as she will likely hold on to the idea that we are incompatable, and regardless of how good I may look, her and I would just be bad together. then again, I really don't know what's going on in her head.

This is very relevant. I noticed I had if not an increased sense of happiness while H was away, I experienced an increase sense of.....contentment? And I think it was because I just set my own schedule. Went to the gym when I wanted to go. Woke up super early and went for a bike ride or run. Met a friend for coffee when it was convenient. Went to church--something I'd been avoiding for quite some time now.

When H came back, I noticed I either didn't have time for these things that were important to me, or I found an excuse not to do them.

It's not his fault I gave up early morning exercise, tennis, etc. But there is a sense of loss and resentment that I need to process and in doing so, hope to own my own feelings about it. (and get back in the habit of being content!)

lol, dkd, you reminded me of a time I was at Galveston once, at the seawall, and I see this car pull up. It's got plates from Illinois or something, way up north. Anyway, the family piles out, and they get out a bunch of stuff like scuba diving gear! (inside joke: you can't even see your legs in Galveston water, let alone the ocean bottom)

Trying not to laugh, I just sat there and watched them as they hummed around like bees, getting all their junk out. They shut the car doors, they turn around to look at the water...it was priceless. They all just stood there, and stared! I don't know who sold them on this trip, but it was hilarious to watch them. I really wanted to sidle over there and whisper "Biloxi, Mississippi" in their ears, lol.

Ok, thread jack here but Cat, I lived in San Francisco for about 8 years and nothing would tickle me more than seeing the summer tourists buying sweatshirts by the pound, in July. They were all wearing short-shorts and little sleeveless tops. Apparently, they don't read Mark Twain.

Ok, ok, one more! H and I went to Disneyland 30 years ago in April, bringing only shorts and t-shirts, as it was already in the 90s in Texas. Needless to say, we both bought sweatshirts.

Cat, I don't understand why anyone outside of the greater Houston area would go to Galveston for vacation.

OH, that is exactly what my W was feeling. She would take the kids over to friends house on a school night to hangout. She never did that when I was around, and I don't recall her even really mentioning she wanted to. Many other things like this.

I know I felt a lot of the same thing when I moved into an apartment. I realized that a lot of the things I did weren't my ways, they were her ways or our ways, and I didn't really like doing it that way. I started to remember who I was so to speak. And none of the things that were different were things I couldn't do with my W.

The truth of this is though that it doesn't mean that you can't be happy or yourself with the other person, it just means that you need to tell your S what makes you happy and give it a chance to happen.

I agree dkd. I have no one to blame but myself for feeling boxed in. I have mentioned these things to H and he's always said "go, I won't stop you from doing that". Then again, his actions didn't always match his words and you know how we're always preaching that to WS around here! But rather than ask him why I sensed a disconnect between what he was saying and what he was doing, I just changed my behavior and resented it.

Logical or not, it is one of the reasons I contemplate splitting up.

Telling your W that you don't want her to go out is very hard to do, atleast for me. To be honest, I didn't mind most of the time and wanted her to fun, but there were a few times I wished she had stayed home. In hindsight, I really wished that we could have had more fun doing stuff together, and it was frustrating that we weren't. It bothered me that she'd shoot down some of the things I wanted to do, and be so excited about doing something without me. But I was low in confidence and knew that I wasn't all that fun to be around.

It's not that I wanted to go out without him to see friends, hang out in bars, etc. If I wanted to hang out with my female friends, I usually fit that into my day--with/without kids--depending on their school schedules. So, coffee or a spin class or going for a group walk, etc. Rarely did we want to get together to go out in the evenings. There used to be an active once/month bunco group in my neighborhood and H never had a problem with that.

It was me getting up early and getting out of bed weekdays and weekends when he wanted to stay in and cuddle. On weekends I'd try to come back to bed after I ran, went to the gym, went for a bike ride, etc., and even though he *said* he supported it, his actions often spoke otherwise. Same thing with tennis.

I asked him to learn tennis. He said it was boring. I asked him to walk with me. He hates 'just ambling along'. He won't run because his knees are so messed up from sports. He said he liked to bike but won't bike with me because the he says his bike doesn't fit him properly. So I started to give up a lot of those activities and I never replaced them with things we both liked to do--I guess we never looked hard enough to find any?

He likes to go camping but finances have cut that short since he's been out of work so long. He likes to go out for drink(s). I'm not a big drinker and once again, it's money we don't have.

So I wind up feeling constricted and I'm not happy.

From my experience, I have good news and bad news. The good news is that I don't enjoy doing some of those things, it's that he was too depressed to enjoy doing those things. That certainly is the case for me. When I was depressed, I didn't want to do anything after work. Now, I have something regular scheduled Mon-Thurs night. There are serveral things I could get excited about doing that I just couldn't get excited about before.

The bad news, you H is probably still depressed, and there probably isn't a whole lot you can do about that other then encourage him to do the things that will help get him out of depression, and be patient. I hesitate to say that though because I'm not 100% confident in that. I don't think there is much my wife could do to get me out of depression, but I know for sure that I would have enjoyed my time with her a lot more.

Well, considering how much we used to enjoy just spending time together doing anything, I think you are right about the depression. And given my issues with his alcohol consumption, his idea of going out for drinks is not something I want to pursue. The whole RC thing has become a huge issue for me.

OH, would it fair to say that H fails at most of your ENs?


BTW, W sent me a long email, telling me how busy her week was and that she couldn't do it. She asked me for help, but made sure that I knew she wasn't going to hold it against me if I didn't help.

So I said I would help out in the 3 places she asked. I wasn't making any sacrafices for 2 of them, and the 3rd is staying home with DD if she is still sick. That's somewhat of a sacrafice, but good time with DD, and I don't have a busy day tomorrow.

I hate these situations though. A part of me says that I should say no. That if she doesn't want me, she shouldn't get this part of me to help her out. That she's taking me for granted. The other side says that I should take the oppurtunity to be with the kids, and she is being respectful and appreciative, if nothing more then verbally so. She doesn't want to ask for help and whatever realization that life is tougher without an H is already there because she had to ask.

So which one is the devil, and which is the angel, whispering in my ear?

Dkd, she might be manipulating you for her own gain but if it benefits your kids in the long run, I guess I'd advise you to focus on that? And perhaps your response is making some love bank deposit, some where.

Yes, it is safe to say my ENs are not being met. I've identified them as follows: Their order is somewhat fluid--at times they change order a bit.

1. Affection. (as defined by touching, hugs, kisses, hand holding etc. out of the bedroom, emailing/phone during the day to touch base, cards, etc.)
2. Conversation
3. SF
4. RC
5. FS (I'm capable of providing this for myself but it's still an EN).

Those are the top 5. H and I have spoken about his and my ENs (can't use the MB jargon or he'll turn off...). And what's totally frustrating for me is that if I don't respond to his expectations re: acknowledgement, then he just says "well I"m not going to do THAT again". For instance--last week when I came home in that pissy mood. He mentioned that he went out of his way to make sure he responded to all my emails, had cleaned up the kitchen before I got home, etc., and that I obviously had not noticed. Well it's true, I was pissy and I should have tried to center myself before walking into the house. And in a perfect world, I would have acknowledged. At the same time, if I have to acknowledge everything to some pre-set 'bar' he's got, it's not going to work.

OH, this is straight out of Manipulation and Control 101.

But you know that.

So why get upset when you know it's what he does to get what he wants? Not trying to dis you, but to get you to start thinking more constructively. It looks like you are just settling back down into your old routine. Which benefits no one!

Maybe today would be a good day to get a better grasp on your goals?

dkd, IIWY, I would agree to anything that involves the kids, and nothing else. Period.

I should add that we have had it out before regarding using me as a babysitter, as if it's my responsiblity to do so. Since that point she has made it a habit to avoid asking me as much as possilbe, and then make sure she actually asks and thanks me if she has no other choice.

Another part of this is that this is my weekend with the kids, the 2 little ones anyway as DS8 will be with his Dad. W had already made plans to go to a concert on Sunday night, and lined up a babysitter. Then DS8 had a makeup baseball game scheduled at 4 PM on Sunday. She obviously couldn't get babysitter to go to the game, so that left me, biological Dad, or my MIL. Options 2 and 3 would be difficult as she'd either have to pick DS8 from far away, late on a school night, or have DS8 dropped off with babysitter. Plus, 2 & 3 have never taken DS8 to baseball before. With me, I can take DS8 to school and spend the night with me, taking him to school in the morning. Actually, I may see if biological Dad would meet me at the game, it'd be more fun with both of us there.

Cat, I pretty much do everytime it comes to the kids, accept when it's obviously something for her benefit. As well, I never offer, I wait till I'm ask. For example, I am not going to offer to take all 3 kids on Sunday night and save her the cost of a babysitter. DS8 and I could use some quality one-on-one time anyway.

You're right. The difference here, small as it was, is that my guilt was short lived and I did not act on it. I realized what was going on. I'm venting about it here because it annoyed me.

That's good!