Hey Barbie,

I am in Ann Arbor. I'll have to look up Milford not to sure where it is off the top of my head. I would have answered you sooner but the your post earlier and mine must have crossed when you were editing and I just now saw the rest of what you had to say.

Thanks again. Yes- baby hormones added to this already crazy rollercoaster ride makes it unbearable at times!! But I can't wait to meet her

bumping for other thoughts insight or advice-

The second half of the long post is all you really need to read the first half is just me kinda rambling. Sorry.

Thanks

Babyonboard,

Ann Arbor is a beautiful city. Have a child up there in grad school. I think you need to first get a grip on yourself. And simply write him the standard plan B letter. What you don't seem to understand, the plan B letter is not a contract. It does force you to accept him in your life if he does all you request. It simply says that you will discuss with him the possibility of recovering the marriage.

Next, you need to stop the LB's and such. Next time he calls if he does, just listen. The real question was not what would you do to save this marriage but what will he do. Nevertheless, you will find if you start to make plans to address any situation including him calling again, you will be better prepared. Plans help you deal with the unexpected because at least you have a clue.

God Bless,

JL

Ann Arbor is about 30 min away. Milford by Novi. Visit quite often.
Maybe coffee sometime.

Hang in there. I am glad you have a supportive family.

Thanks JL- you are absolutely right I do need to get a grip. I thought I had one until that moment when he called and then I just fell apart. I can't even begin to tell you how ashamed I am of my bad behavior.

My reaction did cause me to stop and look though and think maybe I do have something left to offer him as far as my love and forgiveness. If I truly didn't love him or care for him I probably wouldn't have gotten so upset.

Yes, I also need realize that just because I send a plan b doesn't mean that I am contractually obligated (that is something I have been struggling with though I didn't quite look at it in those terms). I was feeling more like a doormat when I tried to write one, then my anger would just overtake the whole thing.

I have read of the plan b's on here and think that I can finally get my point across, be strong, and not feel like I am groveling for his scraps.

I think I read on another thread that you responded to that you were a scientist- is that correct? If so I was wondering if you had any thoughts about my question regarding sending articles with empirical data to the WS. I ask because my WH is a doc and seems to respond to facts.
Thanks again for your time and insight.

Barbie-

Would love too! Let me know when you are around the area. I am almost 36 weeks so I don't go out of the AA area much right now. I know I probably won't deliver until after 40 wks but Murphy's law and with my luck, the second I am out range of the U of M hosp my water will break. So I am playing it safe. But yes I would love to have coffee. How is the best way to get contact info out there. Is it through the email on the board or off?

Well, I can have coffee, you can have maybe a veggie juice from that place by Kerrytown and Zingermans. (unless you WANT the baby to start doing backflips)
nancymassollathotmail.com

Babylon,

I don't think you sending WS anything to educate him will work well. It has been shown repeatedly here over the years that trying to educate a WS is pretty fruitless. So don't bother. He is a bright man (almost somewhat) and if he needs information he can figure out how to find it. But, first he has to need the information.

Zingerman's...good place to eat.

Take care of yourself.

JL

Hi, need a little insight. It seems everyone else has a much better perspective of things than I do.

I sent the standard plan b letter and in it I stated that when he arrived here in town to meet condition number 2 that he could text a number with the info of where and when to meet in person. I told him that this number was not to be used for anything else and that the message would get to me. I did this because I did not want him to know that was my new cell number, and I don't really have a safe intermediary for a go between. So I tried to make it kinda ambiguous.

Well two things-
1. I received a text today from him that stated he knew he was not to use this number but he wanted me to know that he had bought a crib and dresser and that it would be coming to my parents house because he didn't want me to have buy unecessary items.

2. I have no idea how he knew where I was registered to begin with. I know this isn't rocket science to find out but, he had to make some kind of effort to get this information. I am not trying to bash when I say this but even this amount of effort on his part is mind blowing. For years I have been nothing but and after thought. I.e. On our fifth wedding anniversary he had to buy a card for me at the hospital gift shop because he was too busy and had forgotten. It's not like your fifth comes around everyday or sneaks up on you out of the blue, kwim.

So I am wondering what to make of all of this. The obvious to me is guilt, but I can't help but wonder if there is more?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Stay in your plan B. Don't give him a thought, that is what plan B is for... to get your head out of the "what is he doing" mode and preserve what love you have left. If he tries to contact you, standard answer should be "have you met the requirements in the letter"?

Thanks FF, just want to clarify some of the things you said. I had no intentions of responding to him but you mentioned saying something to him. Did you mean that literally- Because I really wasn't going to say anything at all since I know that the conditions have not been met. Or did you just mean that if he tries to contact me again.

I think I have been doing pretty decent at plan b- and the truth is I find myself not thinking about him much at all unless he pops in like he did yesterday. Sometimes I wonder why this is the case. I am incredibly grateful to my family for whom I don't what would have happened to me without them.

Does anyone believe in signs? The reason I ask is that yesterday morning I woke up really early from bad dreams about my sitch. Cried all morning (I haven't actually cried for almost 2 months now) and prayed for a sign, anything that would tell me what was happening with us and then later that day I got the message about the crib. Was that the sign I had been praying for because if it was it wasn't very clear to me what it was trying to say. That is why I came here and posted for insight. Hoping that others might be able to tell me whether or not there was any reason for me to continue hoping.

There seem to be so many here with such a great sense of insight and wisdom, whether is comes naturally or just from experience either way I know that no one here is psychic or mind readers and my q's yesterday were kind of in the vein of asking people to guess what he is thinking and doing. But I swear that I am really focusing on myself and the baby. I have actually found myself genuinely laughing and enjoying being around people again so I know I must be headed in the right direction. I was just hoping for a little clarity if any one has anything to offer I am all ears.

Thanks!

Hey, BOB:

Why don't you have a good in between person (mediator)? You are with family, right? Oh, maybe you don't want to involve any of them?

Well, I'm here and very willing to meet you for coffee.

I would have to know way more about your sit. Keep posting, there are good voices of reason here.
N

I am faced with a very difficult decision. Now this has been somewhat addressed in the past by some of the elders and others on this board but I still will like to get some more input, if you please.

Doing plan b- was going pretty well until this weekend. Got the text- didn't respond, then he called. I took JL's advice and just listened, no lb's, no nasty's etc. Why did I take the call- well even though I know it went against solid plan b, the combination of being so close to my due date (hormones+ hope) got the better of me.

What I am struggling with is how to handle to birth. I know that I can do it with out him, I was and am fully prepared to do it with out him. But even before I talked to him there is nagging question about the three of us bonding at that moment- the idea that maybe if he were part of the experience of becoming a family it might help him truly see.

Please do not confuse this as I want to use my child as a tool to get my husband back- THAT IS NOT THE CASE. My most important en has always been family, whole, solid, accepting, and unconditional family. I never needed to be rich, famous, popular, whatever, all I have ever wanted was what I didn't get as a child. a solid bio FAMILY. Yes I have my mother and stepdad now and two half brothers who are very good to me and we all love eachother. But I know that there is nothing that can replace the bond between a bio parent and child.

All that being said- when were talking yesterday the birth kept coming up over and over again. And at one point, I know he was crying but trying to hide it. INSERT HERE I am a total GIVER- to the point where I think my Giver created a MONSTER TAKER in him. And as far as addiction principles- my addiction is and has always been giving to others to an unhealthy point. Especially my H.


So my dilema's are

1. The most important thing to me is protecting my child- how do I do this? I tried to explain (I know waynerds are deaf) that it wasn't that I didn't want him there or that it was a punishment but that he has taught me I can't count on him and she comes first. But then..

2. I am afraid of robbing both my H and my DD the opportunity to bond. If I leave it up to the courts- which I am most likely to do then the first visit between them would be until 2-3 months down the road unless I allowed otherwise.

3. Is the birthing experience something could be a catalyst, I felt like he was on the edge yesterday and this might be "the" push.



PLEASE, ANYONE, HELP!- GUYS ESPECIALLY I would love to her how you felt when your wives or partners gave birth. Did you feel more connected to them, how did you feel about your child, and the whole Family Factor? He feels like I am punishing him and I can see how he feels this way- but it wasn't me that created this situation, and he still just isn't quite there for accepting responsibility.

Paramount is your health and the health of babyDD. YOU KNOW this -and have been told stress increases delivery complications.

You are under stress now, but if he is around, the stress will go way up. Do you think you can handle this? I could not- but maybe you feel stronger about dealing with his presence than I.

The most important bond at this moment <birth> is (sorry all you guys) between mother and child. Holding the child that your (and only your body) nurtured and gave life to is a miracle.

It should be as calm and happy as you can make it-- can you do this with your WS there?

Barbie,
I totally agree about the stress factor and the ultimate bonding taking place between me and baby girl. As I mentioned I am inclined not to include him and let the courts handle it. But I at the same time I have doubts as to if it is the right thing to do. And as far as being strong enough to handle him being there, I don't know for sure.

The things that keep running through my mind are- he was there when she was created, and what will I be depriving her of if he isn't there when comes into the world.

He said would just wait in the waiting room, but the funny thing is I think that if I knew he were at the hosp I would want him in the room with me. Despite everything that has happened, knowing that he doesn't want to be with me, that he choses to continue down this path with ow, I still love him.

I feel like a turtle without a shell.

Hey, aren't you supposed to be at work, tsk tsk

BOB,

The best thing that you can do right now is stick to your Plan B. Honestly, until he is ready to meet the conditions he will continue to cake eat. Ask me, I know. I wanted my M so badly that I broke several Plan B's. What happened? WH didn't take them seriously anymore, continued to go back to OW because he knew I would overlook it, I ended up love busting BIG TIME (Plan FU was more like it) and I now will be D'd shortly. You only have ONE CHANCE to do a good Plan B. It sounds like your WH is on the fence and you can knock him off if you do this right.

The worst thing would be to let him in delivery with you, then have him leave later only to return to OW.

If you can, you could counsel with Steve or Jennifer right now and have them guide you down this narrow path. You have a good chance of recovering your M right now if you do this right.

MAKE HIM MEET THE CONDITIONS. Jennifer coached me to say "Are you calling to recover the M"? If his answer is anything but yes, hang up!

Thanks, Chai and Barbie,

I hear what you are both saying and want you to know that this helps my resolve immensely!

As I said before I am a people pleaser, and want to do what is right by everyone. But in this case I just can't and I have to accept that and do what is right by me and baby g. He has to face the consequences of his actions and take ownership of his mistakes. I have done all I can, I offered a path back and now I just have to sit back and keep hoping he won't continue to let his pride and ego get in the way from following it. I know this but I feel like I am losing him everyday that passes and I can't stand knowing that this will effect our daughter and their relationship.

Oh yeah,

Real quick, he said he didn't understand my plan b letter- and that I was using the baby to as way to force reconciliation. You see, one of my terms was that he would have to come to me and sit down face to face and discuss the A and answer my Q's and then we could begin to address our other problems once we got this out of the way. I said nothing about the baby or the birth in the letter, I only told him that how much he chooses to miss out on is up to him.

Yes I did mean the birth- but I in no way implied that that I would stop him from seeing the child. In fact I told him that I will continue to do as the court directs.

Is this just wayward foggy speak or do I need to clarify what the purpose of meeting my conditions are?

Thanks.

It's fogspeak. If he wants to recover the marriage, he'll suddenly understand the letter. Right now he is going to do anything to keep both of you. If he wants to recover the marriage, he'll tell you that he will meet any condition you put forth.

I know this is hard, especially being pregnant, but you can't recover your marriage until he agrees to get rid of the OW for good. This is why Plan B is good for you. It removes you from that triangle so that you don't have to suffer anymore. You can work on YOU and your baby.

Now please quit talking to him and go dark.