Herb, the PASTOR is destroying the church, exposure will save it. He is a FOX in the hen house. Your pastor is a sexual predator who stalks married females in his congregation. He needs to be REMOVED. And the way to remove him is to EXPOSE him. I have this horrible feeling that you just told one deacon and he didnt want to make waves so he allwed this UNFIT PASTOR to spin him with lies. Has this been swept under the carpet? Is this a matter of one deacon sweeping this under the rug or is this an apostate Baptist church?

Herb, did you bring a pea shooter to a gun fight? Is that why this unfit pastor is still leading this church? Has this all been swept under the carpet so he is free to sexually exploit other female parishioners?

Ephesians 5:11
Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.

Have you contacted your local affiliate of the news media's investigative reporting? They love to sleuth into this kind of situation and expose it - he would be run out of town and off the air instantly!

Forgive me, but I am not ready to hand out flyers, put it in the church bulletin, or take out an ad in the paper. I would like to give the men a chance to do the job the should do. They will start seeing that I am not going away.

We had the "reality about divorce and what will happen" talk last night. I hit her with both barrels. She started out full of fight, ended up sobbing, "how can I believe you care if you threaten to smear me all over town." She is pretty much at bottom now. A lot of the same stuff, it is hopeless, you can't hurt me any more than you already have, same old stuff. But she is really hurting.

All this really is hard on D14.

What she says is straight out of the handbook of what to expect, but it seems like it is turned up to 11.

I try to look underneath and see something that looks like a shred of hope, but it really doesn't seem to be there. The only thing that can be construed that way is the amount of hurt that is there may mean that it meant a lot to her at one time.

I did really botch things up for years.

I just keep praying that the withdrawal continues and someday she can see me differently, and that she sees that I am worth trying for.

You had an object lesson in respect in last nights discussion. She started out full of fight. And you broke her down to sobs. This is exactly what you should have done. Tell me you dealt with the bedroom issue. SHE IS AN ADULTERER. SHE DOES NOT GET TO SLEEP IN YOUR BED WITHOUT YOU. YOU ARE THE OFFENDED PARTY. Do you understand by allowing her to keep the marriage bed, you are putting yourself in a submissive roll. She needs to be cast out of your bed. And into the basement, or couch. That is until she comes to your bedroom door, meekly asking or begging to let her back into your bed. And not because its more comfortable. Because you are in it and she longs to be in your arm. YOU ARE INDULGING HER REBELLIOUS ATTITUDE. When if fact you should get up in her grill, and tell her to get her a$$ out of your bed until she wants to lie in it with you. You had a taste of respect last night. IF YOU WANT HER TO LOVE YOU. SHE MUST RESPECT YOU FIRST. SHE CANNOT LOVE YOU WITHOUT RESPECTING YOU. DO YOU WANT A DIVORCE? YOU DON'T SOUND LIKE YOU DO.

Regarding the pastor. You confront him and tell him that he will step down until God deals with him. If not while he is speaking, you stand up in church, point your finger at him and call him what he is an adulterer. It is more important to do what is right in Gods eyes than in mans.

This needs to be done in a loving way, but I find it hard to argue with this.


The bible prescribes specifically how to deal with sin between believers in Matthew 18:15-17. If this pastor's sin has been confirmed by witnesses, and if he is unrepentant after being lovingly confronted, and if the leadership of mmmherb's church will not fulfill their biblical duty to treat this pastor as an unbeliever, they and the pastor should be exposed for the frauds that they are.

Well, I just went to OM home. I stood on the porch and told him he was leaving. Let him know I was not stopping. It was fairly heated.
He knows where I stand.

Oh, I recorded it all as well, for my own protection.

And what did he have to say?

Concerning the bed

There does not seem to be a "loving" way to do this. But, things can't get any worse. She has to decide if we try or not, I can't do anything about it. really, other than do what is right.

You guys don't see it like this, but, in a real sense, I was an adulterer for years. I abandoned the bed to make it easy, I used pornography quite regularly. I honestly would not call myself a sex addict, but it was a real part of my life for years. I would stop, then start. And settled into that life. I have mentioned the way we dealt with the kids, she was the bad guy most of the time, I stayed comfortable, called my self supporting her when I was just jumping in after it was started. Abandoned the finances to her. We both make good money, I think she makes slightly more than I do now, but it has been fairly equal for a long time. I let her worry about things, not because I didn't care, just I knew she felt she needed that control and I figured she could handle it. I never stopped to see how much that worried her. Did things that needed to be done, but had to be reminded a lot.

I started selling things on ebay back in the early days, mid 90's. Made pretty good profit for a few years, because I was one of the few playing the game at that time. Cleared 20-30K in a 3-4 year span. But I didn't have a business plan, things were going good until the people that were supplying my product started selling themselves and the a lot of others started playing in the sandbox, the cash flow stopped. Of course, I had not planned for this possibility, so I ended up with over 10K in credit card debt. I ended up picking up an extra job, working tax seasons preparing taxes and made enough to pay it off in 3-4 yrs. But, that was another example of things that I just didn't take good care of.

That sums up my marriage pretty well, I did not take care of the things I should have like I should have.

I generally fixed dinner at night, I usually got home earlier and I like to do that. But it did not provide an EN that meant much to her, in retrospect. The one thing that she has opened up about to me in some ways is the way she views herself, always doing what other want, seeking approval, where I don't think she know what she is anymore. Sadly, the dysfunctional way I coped, by avoidance and withdrawal, was seen as rejection by her, that she did not in some way meet my approval. I can see that it would be hard to not see it that way. It hurt her badly, and she put up very thick walls to protect herself, so I couldn't hurt her again. Those walls are very real and still in place, and she is unwilling to expose herself again, to be vulnerable.

i really dug a deep hole, and I truly feel it is mostly on me. I was not unwarned.

In general, I have just gone along for the ride. Deluded myself into a comfort zone, and whistled while my marriage disintegrated. So, of course, she has quite a good reason to not believe me now, a real reason to be angry, a real reason that she could say that she does not want to continue.

I am a pretty good guy, I think I am kind of funny. I am easygoing. I have really opened up on here and the realizations I have come to about myself and shared on here are real. In some ways, I think I have come to be a sympathetic figure on here. There have been several comments basically saying we're rooting for you. But I have been a pretty poor excuse for a husband and a man in many ways.

I have some real doubts that she will want to come back to me, no matter what I become. There is a lot of damage to overcome.

Said he was leaving as soon as he could, that he wanted to restore his marriage. Tried to lecture me on how what I was doing was destroying my marriage. Told him I didn't care what he thought, I didn't expect him to like it. Told me to leave, not come back. I told him I already said what I wanted.

I am afraid I am coming off as a crazy man.

Hi Herb, As you know I have been following your thread. To be honest I don't think going to his home was crazy at all. I think you did the right thing. Telling another man to stay away from YOUR wife. Sounds rather chivalrous IMO. Stop beating yourself up . . . please. I think the BS's all realize their part in the marital disconnection but those areas of improvement that can be applied to the "new marriage" with their Spouse. You are doing all that you can right now! Start believing it! Please?

Herb,

Your situation is FAR from hopeless. She is still in the home, she is still interacting with you. Even when she's being hateful, she's showing that she's involved in the marriage.

I think this is almost certainly where she's coming from right now. You ignored her needs for a long long time. She told you in every way she could think of. She tried her very very best. She gave the marriage everything, and none of it was good enough. You obviously did not care about her at all. This went on for a long, long time. It was not a "phase." It was her life, and it sucked.

Eventually the rejection and loneliness and hurts took their toll and she became vulnerable to another person's attentions. She finally felt alive, valuable, appreciated, interesting, worthy. I'm sure her conscience bothered her (and still does) but she justified her behaviors by telling herself she'd done everything humanly possible and you were not receptive nor interested.

And now, NOW that she is feeling good about herself again, and finds the old wounds healing, you come in and bust it all up. You bet she's angry!!

She's angry because you ignored her for so long. She's angry because she found someone who made her feel alive and interesting and you took that away. She's angry because (in her mind) you are ruining the name and reputation of the only person in the world who understands her... the only good person she knows.

But MOST OF ALL, she's angry because now that she's finally found some reasons to be happy about herself again, and some reason to wake up each morning... NOW you say you want to be married? NOW you say you see your errors and want to change? NOW??!!! Not back when she was busting her tail and practically turning backflips to get you to notice her? No, you waited until she had endured more hurt and rejection than she thought possible, built a protective cocoon around herself, and was finally managing to cope. And once she had endured and coped and persevered and found her feet under her... YOU came in, ripped it all away, and say "Gee, I messed up. Let's be pals."

She is probably FURIOUS. I was her once, and I was majorly pissed off. The only thing my (now-ex H) did was to hand me a paper bag with about a dozen cards in it and say "See, I *was* thinking about you all this time." My emotional response was "Sorry buddy, too little too late, see ya!"

If he had demonstrated to me, via his consistent actions, that he valued me and was willing to make a permanent change in his behavior, I think I would have given it another chance (maybe, hard to say). I know if he'd even been able to stall my exit, and had demonstrated consistent behavioral changes, we'd still be married today. But, he obviously didn't care enough to do anything more than hand me a bunch of blank unsigned cards that he'd supposedly been stockpiling over the months and years.

So what I'm trying to say is yes, your wife is angry. She's angry at a LOT of things. But there is a LOT of hope here. It took you a long, long time to reach this dreadful state and it will take you a long, long time to crawl up out of the pit. Just set your long distance goals (happy healthy marriage), then make some milestones (kill affair, counseling), then focus on the first milestone and make consistent steps toward it every single day. Do not waiver!

Right now your wife is watching you, waiting for you to mess up. She thinks this is a trick, a ploy to win her back and make things comfortable for yourself. She is afraid the old you will pop out at any moment and she fears that more than anything. It hurts too much to face again. She almost managed to break free of that hurt once and she's very reluctant to sign up for it again.

So take consistent baby steps toward your goal and do not waiver. Sorry for the novel.

turtlehead, you been talking to her? I don't think you missed anything.

This is the part that really concerns me.

Herb, we understand you both did bad things in this marriage leading to the separate sleeping arrangements. But that is no reason to continue to do them in the future.

We are focusing on RECOVERY and you are focusing why you should be EXPELLED from your marital bed.

Herb, please listen to us. This is a critical component of rebuilding INTIMACY in your marriage. The past has to be left in the past and because of that, the FUTURE MUST BE DIFFERENT.

If you want to have an intimate, close relationship with your wife, that involves moving back into that bedroom. the structure that ENABLES marital recovery must be there and that involves sleeping together. Sleeping apart is part of the problem in the PAST and you can see where that got you. It will not help you in the future.

I know, I really do. I just am having issues somehow with this part. Not because I don't want to. Give me a little time. I can't really figure it out myself.

This is an arrogant, evil, unrepentant man. For the rapist to lecture the rape victim on recovery tactics tells me he is absolutely unremorseful for what he has done to you and your wife, Herb.

He is trying to make you feel like you are crazy for recognizing and exposing his EVIL. He is trying to manipulate you into silence so he does not have to face the consequences of his actions.

And Herb, I am not suggesting you send out fliers, but that you continually notify everyone until this fox is removed. Even if it does take fliers. If church authorities don't do their God given task and remove him, then it will fall to you to warn other families what this man is. He is a FOX in the henhouse!

I want you to think about something else, my friend, because the recognition of this truth changes lives: feelings FOLLOW ACTIONS. Not the other way around. Feelings of intimacy will come from ACTIONS that enable intimacy. She will feel more intimate if you continue to try and meet her needs and be thoughtful and kind and considerate, while at the same time, making sure that you are no longer living a life of DETACHMENT that led to this terrible place.

You said this on the previous page
herb, don't let guilt stop you from taking back your M.

The past is the past. Plan A is about unfolding a new herb, new and improved for all BS's.

Don't think you are too far off, from seeing him in action. I don't feel in my heart he is evil, but the threat his actions have caused to him and the surprise he feels that someone was able to outsmart him in a way has made him a disturbed man.
Didn't work


That is my plan. I have now gone outside the deacon body. This respected man has brought another deacon into the loop, one that is quite troubled, in a large part because the original group has kept it to themselves. The light is falling in many places.

My main message to OM was that I am not stopping.

And this is the problem, Herb.



He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool : but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered. Proverbs 28:26

Your heart is deceitful and has led you wrong. This man should be judged by his ACTIONS, not his nice, silky, false words, Herb. Going by your feelings about him has led you WRONG and enabled this FOX:

Jerimiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?

10 "I the LORD search the heart
and examine the mind,
to reward a man according to his conduct,
according to what his deeds deserve."


Do you think that evil looks like EVIL? Remember how soothing and kind the devil was to Jesus in the Bible?