t&l...

Politics aside, I'm only arguing that Clinton & JFK, didn't leave their marriages for their adultery partners...To me, there is a greater chance of repentence when a WS stays in the marriage (if allowed)...I believe that staying in the marriage offers a powerful catalyst for genuine change...I can't see it with an affairage...Not at all...

Both Hillary & Jackie certainly had valid "outs" to leave their marriages, but didn't take them...Obviously we don't know if Jackie might have eventually taken hers or not, but Hill/Bill are still together as far as I know...I sincerely hope that he is or becomes a true FWS...Only God knows...

JMHO...

Mrs. W

It is only a catalyst for change if a person is willing to be changed. I have seen no evidence that change was desired, or even really attempted...the leopards retained their spots, to use a Biblical metaphor. And Jackie ended her life in an affair with a married man, so she didn't much learn anything from her marital pain, did she? Much as I do not admire Paul Newman, he left the marriage and let his wife go on. He didn't drag her through repeated embarrassments and exposures by hanging on to her AND his sexual freedoms.

I would say that I find it ironic that some of the same posters who so loudly critiqued John McCain, Sarah Palin, and other conservatives for their real-or-alleged infidelities during the campaign are now quite willing, for the liberal, generous, and ever-so-handsome Paul Newman, to cut the offender an GREAT deal of slack. But if I said that, it would draw politics back into the discussion, so I won't.

tl

Sounds like a case of what is worse...the cake eater or the WAS? They both suck but for different reasons.

I don't care. I liked Paul Newman. I even liked Joanne Woodward (especially in "They might be giants" with George C Scott, who wasn't exactly a paragon of virtue IRL).

Thinking about it, I know that in my own sitch, though I love my W, I would have preferred she had done what PN did and leave her family for Rat Meat, say 2 years in2 their first A. I even told her, a few months after d-day 7 years ago, that I could have started another family and had more grown kids by now if she'd simply left. Go be happy, if you can.

PN and JW seemed 2 have done that, 2 an extent marred by the feelings of guilt he lived with his whole life. One of the costs of consequences.

A good friend of mine committed suicide about 5 years ago. He was 70, and had been taking pain-killing drugs because prostate cancer had come back for the 3rd time. At his memorial reception, I met his first W and 2 kids, who he'd left for his OW 25 years before (I didn't know until after he'd died that his 2nd marriage started out as an affair). I knew him as a good man, funny guy, very talented engineer. Very outgoing. In retrospect, a lot of that may have been an effort 2 compensate for past wrongs, like PN may have been doing. Saddest thing about the memorial service was meeting his kids. His daughter had re-established communications with him when her first child was born about 2 years before, and said he was a terrific grandparent. His son hadn't spoken 2 him since he left his mom 25 years earlier. His son looked very much like his dad, and had some of his good qualities. But he was bitter. Ironically, his dad was not - though he was sad at times (again, possibly for the choices he had made, though I was unaware of them while he was alive).

My W's dad was an alcoholic. He verbally abused his kids up until her mom DV'd him about when I met my W. My W and one of her brothers managed 2 build a decent relationship with him after their kids were born. He was a terrific grandfather. But both my W and her brother never felt he "apologized" for what he'd done when they were kids. Still, they gave him a 2nd chance, and he did the best he could with it up until he passed away 12 years ago.

"Still shakin' it, boss, still shakin'." -Paul Newman, "Cool Hand Luke"

-ol' 2long

"I killed'em ... all of'em. They were bad men, and their wh0re's weren't ladies" - Paul Newman, "The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean".

Why? Did he continue to cheat? I honestly don't know the answer to that question. What if he had done the right thing and gone back to his first wife?

I agree about repeat offenders though... knowing what I know NOW, and after experiencing the pain, I wouldn't put up with it. It wouldn't matter to me HOW powerful my husband might be. The whole WORLD would know.

I'm not sure what is so mystifying about this. Do you think, if he hadn't left his first wife for Joanne, that his affair with her would've been his only one? In Hollywood? At least his first wife had to put up with one public betrayal, one abandonment, one humiliation and dumping. I doubt, should she have been given the chance (and if such a chance had even been possible), that she would've felt any desire to trade the end of her marriage, for the continuance of marriage "enjoyed" by Jackie or Hillary. Given some of the alternative scenarios her cheating husband could've dragged her through, by comparison she lucked out.

tl

Well at least Jackie and Hillary had the decision as to stay or not. PNs first wife did not get that option he just left and she still had that betrayal and humiliation and abandonement anyway.

Jackie and Hillary made their choice to stay with their WSs.

The more fool they. (which is grammatically correct, although it sounds odd, I know) If somebody was beating ME up with a club, be danged if I'd stick around for years for more!

tl

I honestly don't know. Do you honestly know that it wouldn't have? Are there NO marriages in Hollywood without adultery?

PN's first wife didn't have to D. She simply had enough as the two lovebirds rubbed their A in her face. I give her credit for that...couldn't have been easy back then.


But never fear, the karma bus is coming through:
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/pau..._woodward_robert_redford/celebrity/66561

Robert Redford is a true friend.

Well neither would i but to each his (or her) own i guess.

Well there you go. The leopard that was Paul Newman never changed his spots.

Did I say there are NO marriages in Hollywood without adultery? My guess would be that the percentage is not high, but I would have no way of knowing for sure about all fo them...nor would anyone else. However, I was talking about Paul Newman, a Hollywood icon with unlimited opportunities to score, and one affair under his belt already. If he had stayed, for the last 50 years, with his long-suffering first wife, having cheated on her once, what are the odds that he would never have cheated on her again? Would you want to bet your own life on those same odds? For that matter, does Joanne really think he was faithful to her?

tl

Sloppy Jo to Hamburger Helper back to Sloppy Jo.

Having just read The Enquirer teaser, let me rephrase that: Does Joanne really think he cheated on her only once?:crosseyedcrazy:

tl

What is so familiar about so many of the paragraphs the original article? Stripping away the consumer fluff, this is pretty much all that is left to tell about his life, his entire existence:

“'But being what they were, neither could help what was happening to them.'”

“But Newman wasn't cheating so much as he was recognising that he'd found his ideal partner.”

'They were so young when they married,' a friend said of Newman and Jackie. 'They just grew up to be two different people.”

'That had been at her insistence,' Vidal later recollected, 'and based entirely on her passion not for me but for Paul.' She thought that a fake engagement might force him to leave Jackie once and for all.”

As Joanne remembered: 'Paul and I were good friends before we were lovers. We really liked each other. We could talk to each other, we could tell each other anything without fear of ridicule or rejection. There was trust.'

“Sometime during the shooting of The Long, Hot Summer, perhaps on that voluptuous brass bed, they had conceived a child - the reality of which may have been the final straw in Jackie's agreeing to let him go”

“And so he made up his mind to leave, regardless of how Jackie took it, regardless, even, of what it meant to the children.”

“'I was probably too immature to make a success of my first marriage,' was all he would say. When pressed, he replied: 'What happened to us during that period is nobody's business.' “

“He did, however, confess to one emotion.’Guilty as hell' was how he described himself about his first marriage, adding: 'And I'll carry it with me for the rest of my life.'”



Oh, right, they are all in the WS Handbook. Every last one of them. Even the attempted damage control at the end.

I always figured he had other affairs during his affair marriage. So now I see a link, well OK to the NE but hey I believe it. I bet he did it many times more than once.

This one gives a little more background:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...boy-Paul-Newman-drunken-philanderer.html

"But his friends knew, she claimed. 'It was the worst-kept secret in Hollywood. People used to joke about it. Referring to his old remark, they'd say: "Paul may not go out for hamburger, but he sure goes out for Bacon."

OW is better than Hamburger Helper...she's bacon!

LOL

There were more reputable new sources to list but NE gave the jist of it while more "reputable" sources glossed over his As.