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The Paul Newman thread brought this back up (kinda like GERD) for me again.

Recently, I found out that my Most Favorite Aunt in the Entire World's M is actually an affairage.

Okay.

We all know how I feel about that, right?

I never knew. Till I found out that her first H had passed recently, and I asked if our family had sent anything to his (I barely remember him). My mother said that it wouldn't be seemly to send anything and then spilled it.

I love this woman and her husband - like, second momma and daddy love them. They lifted me and my children up and took care of us during the Wookie's infidelity. They love my children - all of my children. They delight in my family because it is THEIR family too.

And now I am torn because I know that these two people have caused the SAME pain in others that the Wookie and VD caused in our family.

OUCH. How do I deal with this?


I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?

O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten.

My Story

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Yeah, I agree OUCH.

I would have to talk to this Aunt, get it off my chest how I was feeling.
This doesn't have to mean ending a relationship that you cherish, see what she has
to say.
It's only when things are in the open that we can be ourselves.


M'd 22 years
BW-me
D-Day 08/08 LTA


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It is disappointing to find out the mistakes that people make in their lives. We all make them. I believe it is our responsibility to live our best life - to live a life that is good. People make mistakes. They hurt each other. Sometimes you love them anyway if they are important enough to you. You didn't cause the pain. It is their life. I would continue to love them. I'm not sure I would want them to council my children on love and marriage but they may have changed their views by now and wish things were different. Have you talked to them about your disappointment in a non-judgemental way?


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Oh jeez, how awful for you. Did finding out make anything click for you? I mean, things they might have said over the years? How could they keep this from you, especially during Wookie's infidelity? Was it guilt? Shame?

I know you love them, but you loved them as you knew them. Now that you know the truth, I'm sure your love won't evaporate, but surely it will color the relationship just a little.

I would be completely honest with them. Not to guilt them, but to let them know you know and it has changed (has it?) things, even if it's just a little.


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
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In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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I feel ya D!

Neither my H nor I are close to a particular family member (his side) that is in an affairage, but it does bother me. Because we rarely see them it's really a non-issue for me. I'm civil when I see them but I do see them in a very different light now.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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I'm kind of a "by-the-rules" sorta gal, so this would never sit right with me.

I'm not sure if I, personally, would say something to them about it...maybe in an email, in a sort of "I'm so disappointed and feel that I was lied to during my own torturous situation with infidelity", kind-of-a-way.

But certainly I would not be able to help BUT pull away from them. This news would forever change the sort of relationship I was even capable of having with them.


Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. smile
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>How could they keep this from you, especially during Wookie's infidelity? Was it guilt? Shame?

Honestly, like most infidels, I think they don't apply the rules to THEIR situation....they are all so "speshul".

KWIM?

V and SS

>Have you talked to them about your disappointment in a non-judgemental way?


You know, the relationship I have with my family is STILL very much child/adult...with me being the child.

We are ALL adults and we are treated that way, but the RESPECT factor/heirarchy that is ingrained in us is very nearly impossible for me to move enough to be able to do so.

Couple that with the enormous amount of love I have for them and I would NEVER want to cause them any pain or hurt them, I am very nearly chained by the Southern social/familial mores.

Really, to disappoint them or to bring light to the disappointment I have FOR them would pert near kill me because I could never cause them more harm than I've already put my family through (by chosing to stay with the Wookie - 'twas a hard thing for them to accept - they loathed seeing what it did to me and the children).

I suppose, because I am the "child" in this situation, I'll keep my mouth shut out of respect for them NOW...but OI! I do feel sorry for my former uncle! I never knew why they split, only that they did split...poor man. I hope he found happiness.


I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?

O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten.

My Story

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Kimmy, it may be that you don't know the whole truth....yes it may be an affairage and that is something we all agree is despicable. But, I always think it interesting to know the stories on why things happen.

Perhaps, when the newness of this revelation has worn off a bit, you need to talk with her. That might help ease your distress. It might help you understand why she had stood by you so.

Perhaps she is carrying a burden of shame with this and it would lighten her load.

I don't know. I have no answers. I'm sorry that you now know this. But, you do. So, you have to live with it. It's gonna be ok even though some things may never be the same.

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>I'm sorry that you now know this. But, you do.

Yeah. I wish I didn't...because it HAS changed the way I look at them.

Infidelity sucks...


I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?

O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten.

My Story

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Maybe through watching and sharing in your pain, they got a small taste of what they did. Just don't ever expect them to admit to that.

I'm sorry you're going through this new betrayal, but just like you can continue to love Wookie, you can continue to love them.

I totally get being the child in the family. Ugh! That is so frustrating sometimes!

Just because the rest of your family won't send anything to your former uncle's family, doesn't mean that you can't. He was your uncle at one point, and you're not the one that had an A. Honestly, I think that would be the "adult" thing to do.


BW-31
FWH-32(skald)
DD-5
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"Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."

"To Err is Human. To Arr is Pirate."
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[[[[[[Kimmy]]]]]]

We know there is no excuse for adultery.

However it may have been that supporting you and your own family gave them the opportunity to make some amends for their behaviour when they were younger.

They as far as you know they were unable to make any amends to or for her betrayed husband ... or his wife if there was one ... in fact he/she may have never wanted to ever hear from them again...he may have cared or not .... he may have forgiven them ..... you will probably never know that .... but maybe by standing by and for you they could do something for someone who was a victim of the same thing they inflicted on another. It was perhaps the only amends they could provide at this stage.

You and I know it doesn't matter the reason... wrong is just wrong.... even if events come to light that may allow some understanding...

Kimmy sometimes we are given the opportunity to make remorseful restitution and sometimes its far too late no matter how much you may want to... or even impossible to. Perhaps you may have given them that opportunity even if just a bit.

How often do we say here don't listen so much to what they say but observe what they do. well you have a life time of observation to examine.

No answers I guess from me

big hugs hug



Life may feel as if you are constantly getting kicked on a daily basis, living is about picking yourself up each day and going on and on and on regardless.

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Originally Posted by Dealan-de
OUCH. How do I deal with this?

The same way you dealt with it in your own family. See my post 2 the Newman thread.

Paul Newman is dead. He's likely going 2 stay that way. And while he is now a FLP (former live person), most people here will never let him be a FWS.

He did good things. He did bad things. Put all those things about your Aunt on a scale and learn what you can from all of it, is what I think.

-ol' 2long

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I often wish I could go back and "unknow" something I really didn't want to know.

A couple verses...... dunno, they just came to mind as I read your post....... hope they are of use to you today.

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,


John 8:7
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."


Isaiah 64:6
All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.


Proverbs 6:32
But a man who commits adultery lacks judgment; whoever does so destroys himself.







Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Originally Posted by Dealan-de
And now I am torn because I know that these two people have caused the SAME pain in others that the Wookie and VD caused in our family.

I don't ask my surgeon if he/she has ever been a WS before surgery (or after either for that matter).

If a musician or a songwriter was ever a WS, I still listen to the music if it pleases me.

If a painter whose art I enjoy was once a WS, I do not avert my eyes away from the beauty they did create.

If an actor was a WS, I still watch their films (if the film is worth watching).

If an author was a WS I still enjoy the beauty of the written word, if I want to.

If a baker is/was a WS, the cake still tastes heavenly.

If one of my patients is a WS, I still offer the best care I know how.

I am a sinner too.

My point being - everyone brings a mix of foolishness and folly into their own lives. I cannot place my foolishness in a morally superior position to yours, or anyone else's.

If you still enjoy their company, talk it out with them and see what lessions you can learn from that discussion.

My children came to me because another woman was foolish and morally sick ... if I reject her I reject my children as well.

There are joys yet to be had. Have them !

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Quote
I love this woman and her husband - like, second momma and daddy love them. They lifted me and my children up and took care of us during the Wookie's infidelity. They love my children - all of my children. They delight in my family because it is THEIR family too.

And now I am torn because I know that these two people have caused the SAME pain in others that the Wookie and VD caused in our family.

OUCH. How do I deal with this?

IMHO You try to deal with this the same way you deal with being on this forum with other FWS.
If they are not currently actively engaging in behavior that is harmful to your family in any way then there is nothing to discuss.
I am constatntly triggerd by information I get in RL or from stories I see here.
Granted this trigger is pretty close to home and brings back all the hurt feelings you have from your own experience, but indulge me here. Your aunt and uncle by your own admission have been nothing but good to you and your kids. They did not indulge in infidelity to cause you pain. Perhaps if you had not experienced it yourself you might not have the same reaction to the information as you are having.
My 2 cents would be to let the trigger pass in you , do not focus on their past alone and let their current actions speak for themselves.
No different that the daily road every BS walks in trying to work with their WS. One day at the time. Like Jennifer counselled us, when you trigger stop and check if its beacuse of past events or current behaviour. Current behavoir are redflags and need to be dealt with, anything else we work hard at overcoming the trigger and staying in the present.
I am sorry that you have to deal with a trigger so close to home that makes you re-live your own pain.


FBW(me)- 45
FWH- 53
D-day 4/29/08
Moving forward pursuing happiness & a loving Marriage with DH.
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We all have skeletons in our family closets ... that are NEVER talked about. That's why I put no stock in made up numbers like this silly 3% rule. When you consider the people you know in your family or community that are "techically" in long-term affairages, but it is no longer discussed ... you just understand that this A stuff is not new or isolated to our own situations.

Once you get your head around the concept ... you see the falacy of "Black & White" thinking ... and you start to weigh the good against the bad (or black against the white, if you will) to understand how you get all of these varying shades of GRAY.

You just accept that all M's are not "blessed" and people move on from bad choices as best they can from the mess caused by past mistakes.

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>There are joys yet to be had. Have them !

I'm workin' it, baybee!

If there is ONE thing I have learned these years, it's to throw out the phrase, "I would/could NEVER..." That's the surest way to make the universe sit up and perk it's ears in your direction.


I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?

O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten.

My Story

Recovered!
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Originally Posted by Dealan-de
>How could they keep this from you, especially during Wookie's infidelity? Was it guilt? Shame?

Honestly, like most infidels, I think they don't apply the rules to THEIR situation....they are all so "speshul".

KWIM?

V and SS

>Have you talked to them about your disappointment in a non-judgemental way?


You know, the relationship I have with my family is STILL very much child/adult...with me being the child.

We are ALL adults and we are treated that way, but the RESPECT factor/heirarchy that is ingrained in us is very nearly impossible for me to move enough to be able to do so.

Couple that with the enormous amount of love I have for them and I would NEVER want to cause them any pain or hurt them, I am very nearly chained by the Southern social/familial mores.

Really, to disappoint them or to bring light to the disappointment I have FOR them would pert near kill me because I could never cause them more harm than I've already put my family through (by chosing to stay with the Wookie - 'twas a hard thing for them to accept - they loathed seeing what it did to me and the children).

I suppose, because I am the "child" in this situation, I'll keep my mouth shut out of respect for them NOW...but OI! I do feel sorry for my former uncle! I never knew why they split, only that they did split...poor man. I hope he found happiness.
I guess now you know why they couldn't understand you staying?


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Originally Posted by Pepperband
I don't ask my surgeon if he/she has ever been a WS before surgery (or after either for that matter).

If a musician or a songwriter was ever a WS, I still listen to the music if it pleases me.

If a painter whose art I enjoy was once a WS, I do not avert my eyes away from the beauty they did create.

If an actor was a WS, I still watch their films (if the film is worth watching).

If an author was a WS I still enjoy the beauty of the written word, if I want to.

If a baker is/was a WS, the cake still tastes heavenly.

If one of my patients is a WS, I still offer the best care I know how.

I am a sinner too.

But Pep, isn't that the same as saying as long as what my neighbor does doesn't affect me personally, then I'm cool with it?

I'm a sinner too and I'm no judge.

But where do we draw the line at standing up for what we believe?

If you knowingly watch a movie starring an adulterer (who is being paid to act in that movie) aren't you supporting his or her lifestyle? Same thing with music? Same thing with medicine? and on and on and on?

Quote
If you still enjoy their company, talk it out with them and see what lessions you can learn from that discussion.

I agree. If she's questioning it here, it's on her heart and she needs to discuss it with them.

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My children came to me because another woman was foolish and morally sick ... if I reject her I reject my children as well.

Really? How is that?

I'm not saying to reject the PERSON. I'm saying to reject what they do and not support them in any way if it's within your power. Who knows what would happen if EVERYONE decided enough was enough.


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
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In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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Originally Posted by princessmeggy
But Pep, isn't that the same as saying as long as what my neighbor does doesn't affect me personally, then I'm cool with it?

I don't think that is the same at all. Thanks for asking & not assuming smile

Quote
But where do we draw the line at standing up for what we believe?

By living as an example. I have beliefs about forgiveness as well. smile

Quote
If you knowingly watch a movie starring an adulterer (who is being paid to act in that movie) aren't you supporting his or her lifestyle? Same thing with music? Same thing with medicine? and on and on and on?

Would you refuse your husband some cancer treatment because an adulterer either A. invented B. perfected C. provided the necessary treatment?

I live with a known adulterer, and so do you ! blush
Would you like the list of TV and films my H has worked on so you can be sure not to support him?

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My children came to me because another woman was foolish and morally sick ... if I reject her I reject my children as well.

Quote
Really? How is that?


Leave it at this - birth mom was a wayward wife and a not so nice person. If I want nothing to do with anything that she "produced" in her life, that means my kids.

I think this becomes a witch hunt all too quickly.

I cannot make adultery so important that is is the only or primary measurement with which I consider how/if I will interact with people. In my opinion, that belittles myself.

But, guess what? I don't care if anyone else makes adultery the only measure they take. I think they miss out on a lot of good stuff that way, but so be it.

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