sss-
about affairs having more passion - idk! especially since i never had an affair....

but i cant imagine more passion bc to me - passion comes from committment and love in a relationship- not just the sex.

the sex is a physical expression of the love and connection i feel for the other person. if it is just sex without love, can it have that same feeling ?

really - i hate the idea of comparing the two. it is really sickening and a terrible thought for me to imagine.

also - for my H- he cringes when he thinks of the women he was with- like GM- they didnt have to be anything special- just to think he was so great and to say yes. how sickening.

but ... we are supposed to try and move past this kind of conversation.

poja for me comes easier than for my H- but he is getting it slow but sure.

you sound great- keep it up!!

sf

Well yes, I do understand what you are saying. I don't know about affairs first hand either, still it is the fantasy. Just me thinking out loud.

It is difficult to not talk about all of this some, it is just so fresh but I do know we are not supposed to. We have had discussions about GM's last "love" because she just recently had her trial and we needed (or I did anyway) to know if I could let my guard down if she went to jail. She is out on probation so I do still worry. I will need to keep up some just so I know. She is crazy I think and I do NOT trust her to not mess with me at some point.

Onward and upward. Our big garden project is coming along, if it would stop raining it might be done, and we are having such fun doing this together. It is (RC) one of his top two EN's so I am easily meeting that need. No more independent behavior from him and it is just like what I always wanted except for the pain, lol.

"I have no doubt that a person truly in love with their spouse can far exceed affair sex and passion."

This is called intimacy, which is the very best sex of all.

But many couples never get there.

So sad.

Hi believer! How are you doing?

I think we are gonna get this done. The changes in GM are so great that I feel like I am in my 20's again, he is the man I knew then. The changes are strong, genuine. I still am wary but the changes are consistent. I have such great pleasure spending time with him. I am certain this is an up and the downhill slope is up ahead but with each up the downhill seems to mean a little less. He is working very hard to do the right things and to learn what he needs to know to do his part in the M. Right now life is very good.

I have been so sporadic on the site for a few weeks but I think I remember reading that you retired? Congratulations. I hope it was something you wanted, you never know these days if someone retired or was retired. It is brutal out there. I hope all is well with you. You have been a constant ray of sunshine for me and constant support and help to GM. I miss you when I don't come here often.

Well hello again! My last post was about being up and I slowly made the turn to the dark side of the coaster. I finally figured out why I was having such a hard time, D'Oh, our 27th anniversary is this Friday and then Mother's Day.

Steve suggested we spend our anniversary celebrating the beginning of the best years to come, of the new start, of the great pleasures ahead. Well that sounded great except I am not really there. I still hurt way to much and have not been able to put all that in place yet. So here I am with GM wanting to look forward, leave the dark past in the dust and forget the bad times. That feels like it is way too easy. For a guy who could do what he did it is a scary thought that he could just forget it and move on.

I do NOT want the word anniversary even mentioned that day. I have 26 years worth of wonderful, loving cards with personal notes etc. that meant nothing. He has told me they meant nothing more than what he had to do to keep me around to raise the kids and organize the family stuff, he hated me otherwise. Seriously, he hated me. So...do I need a 2x4 and just get over myself or is this a normal response? I don't know if I ever will want to celebrate this day ever again. And then there is Mother's Day.

Mother's day was great when the kids were little. He took the time to take them out and get me nice little gifts and cards and of course he always had something for me too and the wonderful but untruthful "I love you" cards. They did breakfast in bed but once they got old enough to have their own money and transportation GM made the announcement that he had no idea if they even knew Mother's Day was coming and he was not responsible for letting them know (same for my birthday). They were still kids, at home but he would not remind them. It was pretty sad but as he said, "you are not MY Mother so why should I?" My boys, the dear ones are going to be home for the day. It is going to kill me. I told GM I did not even want him to mention it to me. We did not do Valentines day and that was great, I still have all those cards too.

Is this a normal response this far out? I know I am not doing my lessons from the MB weekend, I am trying to just get through my days without melting down. I don't communicate much with anyone now, just stay to myself. GM remains the changed person, he is consistent and very kind and understanding. Again, that is making me angry too. The response I get now to everything is, "I don't even know who that was. I am not that man anymore." Too easy. I do not trust it. I am confused by myself, by the emotions and the logic, by the world and I feel like I am just floating around watching everything happen. I can only control myself and I can't even do that these days.

easy for STEVE to say (sorry, but it's true)



Friend, I have NO FREAKING idea what "normal response" to your level of trauma might be. SERIOUSLY!

My H never once hated me. Never once. Even when he was being an [censored], or when I was being a jerk, he did not hate me.

I don't know if there is a "normal response" to hearing that your husband hated you for decades ... but MY response (normal or otherwise) would be exit papers. So I cannot offer you any "normal response" ... because I don't think it exists outside of post traumatic stress syndrome !


I guarantee, THIS response is typical.
The offending spouse confesses then feels GREAT about themselves, while the wounded spouse is still trying to take in air ...

My gut tells me you are on the right path ... and the path sucks in either direction.

Sorry

Ain't THAT the truth! You simply amaze me, sss.

I really like pep's reply!

sss, Do you hold on to all those years of cards for a reason?

Maybe it's time to have a bon fire and see them no more.

{{{{{{{{{sss}}}}}}}}}}

So, what changed that?

How was this fixed?

Or...has it even really changed?

Maybe you are being given lip service in this area...and he still feels the same.

How do you KNOW?

committed

I have posted before about the struggle with what to do with anniversaries.

LG, posted that he and his BW don't celebrate their wedding anniversary. They choose to celebrate D-day every year because it was the beginning of a new marriage.

For someone in your situation, maybe celebrating the wedding anniversary isn't something you can handle, at least right now, maybe never.

Maybe you and GM can come up with another way to celebrate what you are building, whether it be your wedding date or a different date.

I don't know.

I appreciate that LG and his wife found what works for them. It wasn't a solution in our particular situation, but I could see how it might be the best for some.

Yes tst, I did hold on to them. Pitiful. They were proof! Proof I say! He really did love me somehow, somewhere, sometimes, maybe, OK not really but it let me think that. I held it in my sweaty little hands, see it says right there ---> I love you. I knew, of course I knew he did not. You don't love someone and not talk to them.

I am so pitiful, I feel so very small right now.

I pray for the day you can accept that his horrid behavior toward you was not about you but him. I really doubt he hated you, I would guess deep down he hated himself. I so want YOU to be healed.

sss

I don't beleive for one minute your husband hated you. It is impossible that you would not feel it. He may have resented you and felt trapped but hatred is a very strong emotion and can't be hidden. It is easier for him to say he hated you and nailed around that to answer himself as to why he would nail around when he loved YOU.

dag

sss you are more than normal. Like others have said, I have a hard time believing that GM hated you for 27 yrs. Hate takes a lot of energy so to keep that up for 27 yrs seems hard to believe. Keep in mind that GM thought his perverse life with POSOW was love and none of his behavior displayed that either no matter what he wants to call it.

Not much else to add but a

Well Pepper, the odd (funny) thing is I was being treated for PTSD because of my very abusive childhood, then because of the traumatic nature of my brother's death and now again because of this. It makes me wonder. There must be something I am doing to put myself in these situations. 2 of them I had no control of and this 3rd one I had no idea it was going to be like this but still, this can hardly be a coincidence.


Well I can't argue with that. There is only one path that has a slight possibility of companionship, potential for some small happiness with a partner. This is the hard path but I have chosen to walk down it a ways and see how bad the climb is. Otherwise it is the other lonely path where I still have to deal with the pain but with no possibility of companionship. I can do that and I could be OK with that but I would rather not have to choose it. I want to be happy, really happy but I don't see it happening. I can try.

I am old enough to need a hobby, why not this? (ahh the old nurses gallows humor)

I sure hope this pity party ends after this weekend. It is certainly not productive.

Before I hit submit I need to say, I really am not working very hard to make this right. I resent having to do it all again, I did it alone for many years before going into protection mode. Now that he is home, being very loving and all the other things I thought he was when we married I find that all the problems are gone. They were all a direct result of his treatment of our M, our family and because of ONE THING, I would not OBEY. I have no need to use LB's, DJ's, AO's of any kind now EXCEPT what is directly a result of the 100's of other women and I am trying to stop that. Tomorrow will mark my 3rd anniversary of the 27 where he has not been cheating. I find that other than that we are perfect together. There really is no emoticon that expresses how absurd that statement must sound but there it is.

Hi committed

What changed that is that he was caught. He was broken over the thoughts of what he did to our M and to me. He saw himself reflected in my eyes and it broke him. He evaluated his life and saw the same patterns over and over and how everyone except me let him off with a "boys will be boys" kind of chuckle except for his father who encouraged it all.

It is entirely possible that there has been no change. I will never, I don't think, ever be entirely certain. He has committed to hard work to attempt to make this up to me (he really can't but the trying is nice) and he is doing it. I am not doing much of anything except watching it happen. He is rarely ever out of sight now and when he is he has people who know and are willing to report to me if I ask. I have all his information, including the secret bank account he used. I check records off and on and he is putting names with all the phone numbers. I periodically call some of those to be certain they are real. I am actually not being a warden but it sure seems that way. He is carrying the load and has been now for quite some time, especially since his last big gush of info in late January. I was content to watch now and wait.

Come onna' now. You are a nurse. Parable:

3 little girls are at recess. They all get pushed down hard- all three fall.

One jumps up and chases back offeder.
One sits still a minute, gets up shakes it off and continues playing.
One lays there, crying and waits for help to get up.

OK now here is the one million dollar question..
which one is the "normal" girl?

SMB

It may not seem like it because I have pulled away so much from communicating, even here, but I really value you and your thoughts.

This is a good idea and one I will hold on to and someday there may be something to celebrate and we can call that our day.

I hope things are going well with you and tst. Hugs to both of you.

I specifically try not to post however after following your story (and your husbands) I have to put in my feelings .

My wife had two affairs 29 years ago , They still bother me.
In that I feel she skated and learned nothing .

IMO your husband is a master manipulator and simply wanted to cleans his wrongs while he could and relieve himself of a stupid woman (his Whore) who would no doubt age badly.

Again IMO (as a cohort to your husband BTW, MD ,59yo and very successful ) Please consider yourself first.

IMO a 55yo woman is young enough to have a real loving relationship with a very honest and honorable man .

One without your husbands lies and deceit both past and continued.

Do yourself a favor end your constant self questioning by ending the marriage .

Sever the dead limb quickly and heal.
There IS someone in the world for you other than GM.
You will NOT be alone if you don't want to be.

IMO , I'll bow out now.

All the Best

Ned

LOL, barbiecat I have no freaking idea what is normal right now. I have been all three of those little girls. Right now I am being #3. I was #1 for a while but grew tired of it. Then I became #2.

What is the answer? Pleading stupid is not something I care for but right now I am confused and feeling oh so sorry for myself.

PS, I am glad you came back to my thread.