Awesome. Fullmoon, 6 years is a long term affair. Have you thought about why it lasted so long? Why you started the affair? was your BW suspicious? What are changing in yourself to ensure this won't happen again.

yes, I have tried and am still trying to fully discover why the A happened in the first place and why it lasted so long. I've been in therapy for the last year. I think one thing that will prevent this from ever happening again is rebuilding a fulfilling relationship with BW. But of course that's not all. I am so committed to making this work again. Unfortunately right now my BW seems to be going into the other direction, which I can understand. I am just trying to find ways to turn her around without pushing her. I know she needs her time.

BW just had an appointment with attorney to sort out the legal situation around separation/divorce. I had a subsequent conversation with BW about her plans and that I still want to work on rebuilding the marriage. I even followed "Faithful Followers" suggestion and proposed to BW the idea of a post-nuptial agreement giving her everything, including full custody of COM, if I should ever cheat on her again. She didn't comment on that proposal, so I am no step further.

FullMoon,

This is going to take time and patience. You are going to need to prove to your BW through ACTIONS that you are a changed man. You go to an atty and have him write up the post nup. You get into plan A and woo your wife back. You do the heavy lifting here, with or without her cooperation. No saying you have "changed", PROVE it.

Read over on GQ2 forum. See how much the BS's have suffered. 6 years is a very long time and the OC situation is huge. I can't begin to tell you how much it hurt me to know my H's DNA was used to create another child outside our M. To top it off, you and OW made decisions about the OC without your W's knowledge.

Get the book "Surviving An Affair" or better yet, sign up for a MB weekend.

Faithful, thank you so much for your support. This really helps. It makes me understand things that I might otherwise not understand. I know my BW is a wonderful person deep inside. But I am so confident that our marriage can work again. I just want to open her up to that possibility, as remote it sounds to her right now.

FullMoon, my H just this last Sunday went before our church and confessed his A and told them about his 4 y/o OC. He spoke beautifully of God's love for him which he does not deserve and how thankful he is for my and our children's forgiveness. He asked our church to help us raise the OC to know Jesus. It took him soooooooo long to come to this point, FM. Not all BS's would wait that long. For me knowing that I was once a WW and that I radically changed, always gave me hope that he would as well. Plus, I wanted to protect my children from ever having contact with the xOW.

Today I am thankful I waited on God to save my marriage and am grateful my H is a better man. I want that for you, as well.

Fullmoon,

Listen to Faithful she has helped many here. Something she missed that I think you need to do. Get yourself into IC (individual counseling) you need to find out what happened to you to allow you to think that this was ever okay to protect you from yourself and doing it again.

My FWH has been NC since the CS hearing, from dday to CS hearing his only C was with my full knowledge of everything. He even taped any telephone calls. He is, was remorseful, doing everything.

Read this website in depth, if you can get your Wife to read as well. This is a chance for you to help her heal and to rebuild your M. It can be done but it will not be this week, this month, or this year. We just crossed the four year mark for dday.

Thank God we have not heard from OW for the last 18 months, I expect she will come crying to our door again soon. Your wife, in order to accept you and work on your M, has to except that OW and OC will be out there circling for the next twenty years of her life. If she doesn't file for CS from you first, then she will receive less than OW will for OC. You must protect your family and your COM from the OW.

This means you have to see the OW as the bad person, not the BS. The OW is an interloper, she willingly did things to harm your wife and your COM, as did you. This is why you need counseling, to heal and also to learn to forgive yourself. My H has a difficult time when I am in pain, because he knows his selfishness is the cause. Even when the difficulty is paying bills, he knows that the CS he is paying to OW would make all the difference in the world to us.

Good luck

FTS

ps... I think I missed a page but I am leaving it anyway

I do not recommend signing the declaration of paternity voluntarily. You need your BW on board with EVERYTHING you do in regards to the OC or you have no hope for recovery.

Thank you for the advice, FledTheState. I appreciate any comments and suggestions. Anything helps. - Update for today: I was in court today for the paternity hearing. I went with an attorney, because I absolutely want to protect my BW's and my COM's rights and assets. As I suspected it turns out that OW is still legally married. According to my state's law, OW's husband is considered the father of the OC, until proven otherwise. My hearing was adjourned until June. It is expected that at that hearing the judge will order me to have a DNA test done, which is likely to prove me as the father of OC. All this is basically doing right now is buying me time. My BW suggests to speak to my attorney to find out if we can avoid all this by me volunteering to take a DNA test. Any opinions?

It depends on your state laws. Most states require the BH to deny paternity in order to bring DNA testing in from an outsider. You can ask your atty if you can petition the court to allow you to submit a DNA test or you can take the extra time and get the financials done for your BW and COM first.

Since your BW wants DNA done sooner than later, ask your attorney for guidance.

Um, uh huh. Sure.

Maybe I would have believed it if you had said
I know this has been so traumatic FOR MY WIFE that I know I will never HURT HER LIKE THIS again.

If she wants out, you deserve what you got.

Six year affair? Really? Why did you bother getting married at all?

Catperson, I just read your last comment. It appears that you have not read the entire thread, because you are referring only to my very first post. In other posts I talk a lot about the hurt and pain I inflicted on my BW and how genuinly sorry I am for having done so. I am truly looking for help and advice on this board to safe my marriage.

No, I read the whole thing. But you still say that YOU hurt too much to do it again. I just choose not to believe you. My right. If you were entitled enough to HIDE that long of an affair from your wife, you don't suddenly turn into Gandhi just because you saw her cry.

It's easy to be strong for 6 months. What about 6 more years, when the two of you stop taking extra steps to 'be in love' any more, and another woman starts talking to you and meeting your needs?

Give me concrete evidence that your heart and soul are no longer capable of resisting this OW or any other woman who strokes your ego, and I'll reconsider.

fwiw, you're making the right moves, taking the right steps. I just don't believe you are motivated enough to make it stick. I hope you prove me wrong.

Catperson, what do you know about me? Barely anything. It actually upsets me you are drawing conclusion from a few statements. It is almost destructive. I thought this was a support site to help people. - Anyway, which of my statements make you believe that I am not motivated enough? - Believe me, I am more than motivated, to the point that I took up Faithful's suggestion and proposed to my BW that I am willing to sign a post-nuptial agreement giving her all assets and full custody of my COM should I ever cheat on her again. Furthermore, I am working with an attorney to make sure that my BW and COM are financially protected in regards to the upcoming CS claims for the OC. In terms of the OW, there is not the slightest feeling for her left. I saw her in court on Tuesday. And that's the only place I want to see her, if I am forced to. I didn't even talk to her and had no desire to. My attorney did the talking for me. I am also in IC with a psychologist. And my BW has agreed to continue counseling together, which makes me really happy. - Anyway, I think I am doing all the things I need to do to prove that I am serious. - What other concrete evidence are you looking for? Give me examples and I can respond to them. I am thankful for any constructive advice I can get.

I'm drawing a conclusion from your actions for the last decade. For an affair that didn't end because you felt bad, but because you got caught.

I'm glad you are taking those steps, really I am. But an
affair that lasted that long tells me that you have not placed your wife above you. Maybe you did get a wakeup call and all is different. I just don't see how you can go from lying to her day in and day out for 6 years - deliberately placing your happiness above hers every day - and then just suddenly going 'what was I thinking?'

I'm talking to you this way because I am afraid that you are in a manic phase of your recovery, one that makes YOU feel good because you're doing all the right things, you're getting a subconscious high out of being the new knight in shining armour, and that this is a false payoff.

I want to know, 5 years from now, when you are not getting strokes from your wife any more for putting out all this sudden effort, if the core problem that caused you to be so callous toward her in the first place will not resurface? After all, you deserve to be happy, right? Isn't that what got you here in the first place?

I want to know if, when you start having issues fitting both families into your life, you aren't going to get defensive when your W falls apart, and just leave her, cos it's easier than to deal with the guilt you are now going to have for the rest of you and your children's lives.

Love is about wanting your MATE to be happy first, not yourself. I see a lot of catch-up effort on your part to make things right, and I see you starting up counseling. I just want to see that you are using the counseling for the RIGHT reasons, not just to fix the current problem (i.e., getting caught).

Catperson, you are entitled to your opinions, but from what do you get all this? Let me comment some of your statements:

Quote: I'm talking to you this way because I am afraid that you are in a manic phase of your recovery, one that makes YOU feel good because you're doing all the right things, you're getting a subconscious high out of being the new knight in shining armour, and that this is a false payoff

Where did I say that I feel good because I'm doing the right things? In fact I feel horrible. And where do you get this "knight in shining armour" stuff? This does absolutely not describe me at all.

Quote: if the core problem that caused you to be so callous toward her in the first place will not resurface

That is exactly why I am in individual counseling and my BW and I are in counseling together. That's why I adopted the Policy of Radical Honesty. That's why I am looking into all the tools suggested here. Isn't that the whole purpose of this website to work on core problems and try to eliminate/avoid them in the future?

Quote: when you start having issues fitting both families into your life

Where do you read that I am trying to fit both families into my life? As I said, I have NO desire to have any contact with OW, except for the court house. So far I have had NC with OC except once for 5 minutes after OC was born (and no, I was not at the delivery), but I don't know how I will feel about that going forward. My BW even suggested that I should make sure that I keep that option open. I do not want to skirt my responsibility. If my BW and I stay together she will have a major influence on if and how contact to OC is going to happen.

Quote: I just want to see that you are using the counseling for the RIGHT reasons, not just to fix the current problem

Where did you read that I am using it for the WRONG reason? Of course I am using it for the right reason, isn't that the whole point?

Quote: Maybe you did get a wakeup call and all is different

Believe me, I did get a wake up call. And it was a massive one. And I am not trying to find excuses for anything I did.


Anyway, you didn't answer the question in my previous post What other concrete evidence are you looking for? Give me examples and I can respond to them. So far you have not provided any constructive suggestions, but rather resorted to seemingly bashing me. Again, I thought this website was here for support, help and advice and not for putting people down.

You are quite blessed to have a W like this. The fact that she could even consider C with OC after the trauma she has been through says a lot about her. POJA is key to all of this from now on. Never do anything without your spouses enthusiastic agreement.

A couple phone sessions with Steve Harley might give you a definitive plan for recovery IF your BW agrees.

What is POJA?

This is advice. I am advising you to make sure you are doing this for the right reasons, and in the right way, so you don't end up in the same place 5 years from now.

I am responding to:

I had an affair for 6 yrs which ended a over a year ago, when the OW showed up at my door and my wife found out. So you left OW because you got caught. That tells me that you would have gone on forever, possibly even raised a second family and hidden it, if you weren't caught. So what, in your character, your moral fiber, is now changed? I am asking you to address that, not who sleeps where.

We had been working on staying together. Unfortunately I went back to the OW once, and almost as god's punishment OW got pregnant. The OC was born a couple of months ago. OW and I agreed to keep it secret, she didn't even want me in the child's life. So you and OW were still in contact and deliberately chose NOT to tell your wife. Honesty? Or is the honesty something you found this week?

So I thought everything was settled and I could work on rebuilding my marriage and my family (one child). Just forgetting that one little secret – that you had another child out there, that you decided your wife didn’t need to know. So if she had not received the paper in the mail, were you going to tell her?

I desperately want to save my marriage, because I do love my wife and my son too much (which I didn't really show for the last few years). Let’s be honest – the last seven years.

Faithful Follower, you are absolutely right. I am the one who did the cheating and lying and I deserve no mercy. There has been NC with the OW since the OC was conceived, except for one visit after OC was born.Did your wife attend this visit with you? No, because you hadn't told your wife. So how are you a different person today than you were a month ago when you weren't GOING to tell her? That's what I'm getting at. Is it just because you got caught and now risk losing her? Is that enough to change your moral character from a cheater to one who doesn't? Why?

I'm not being facetious. I truly want you to be answering these questions, because I don't trust that you can stay faithful and I want to protect your wife and son.

I have had NC with OW and OC except for one visit right after the OC was born three months ago and a recent short email exchange regarding the paternity petition she filed.And then you change your story again, and say ‘oh, and just this little email’.

As faithful follower said, “You see, the A didn't "end" if the secrets between you and OW continued.”

yes, I am seeing an IC. And my BW and I have been in counseling together since the A originally was discovered. She even agreed to see our counselor again together, not that the situation with the OC has come to light.So if you were in counseling together since the A was discovered, why did she need to agree to see your counselor AGAIN, if you were already seeing the counselor together since last year? Were you seeing the counselor together before OC, or not?

When ff suggests a post-nup guaranteeing everything to your wife should you stray again, you say:
That's an interesting consideration. Certainly food for thought. Thanks again.NOT “Exactly! I will do that today to prove to her I’m serious!” Just ‘food for thought’ and an offer to do so. So have you drawn up the papers or not? That was 6 days ago. If you were serious, and wanted to prove yourself, you could have paid your lawyer to have it written and THEN showed it to your wife, instead of just ‘offering’ it Tuesday. ff even suggested it Tuesday - that you go out and get it done anyway, yet you haven’t done it, and you seem to be following ff’s plan. So are you going to do it, or not? Are you serious about protecting your wife from yourself or not?

ff also suggested polygraph, NC letter, and full confession to your church, but you have made no mention of them. I will add to that:

• full confession to your family and hers to make sure they help you NOT stray again
  
• arrange for the polygraph so she can ask whatever questions she wants
  
• give her a list of all passwords you maintain – to everything
  
• give her your phone when you come home every day so she can check it
  
• ask her to meet you for lunch any time she wants (barring work issues) so she can randomly check up on you
  
• write down a timeline of when where what and put it in an envelope and seal it, and hand it to her
  
• ask your wife what SHE has been missing from the marriage, not what YOU have been missing
  
• set up a weekly meeting (Friday night, etc.) where you sit down, face each other, and she is free to ask away anything she wants; separating the time like this helps her stop obsessing all week long, if she can just keep a running list of questions, she will feel like she has more control
  
• if your child is old enough (8+), tell him together what happened for the humility, accountability and moral lesson
  

catperson, that was an AWESOME post.