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Too many folks have been consoling me with the equivalent of "Oh! She's gonna be a train wreck!" or "She's gonna have an absolutely miserable time ahead in her life. Just wait and see..."

But, to date, the wh*re is doing her thing with full abandon and not an iota of repent.

Does it ever come? Does the fog ever lift for them? Can they really ever be happy in life knowing full well what destruction they have caused?


Me: 42
WW: 41
Married: 16 years
Known each other: 21 years
S12 D10.5
A Started: Nov 8, 2008
First Discovery: Dec 26th ("Just a Friend" excuse)
Big D-day: Jan 10th (Recorded evidence of full-blown A)
WW Moved out: Feb 1st, 2009.
Plan B started: Feb 13th, 2009.
D Papers served on me by WW: Feb 17th, 2009.
Plan B currently blown, A continues!
WW moved back into home: Feb 23rd, 2009.
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If you are asking about while in R, for WSs the remorse comes when their EN are met and there are no LBs (and no longer in the fog). That is when they grasp the damage that was done and truly feel shame for putting their spouse through it all. If you're writing about WS who choose OM/OW, they may never grasp remorse because they are selfish. If it doesn't workout with OM/OW then they remember what they had and may start to feel remorse, pain. I've seen that happen repeatedly here.

GG


D-Day #1 Aug/2007.
D-Day #2 1/27/12
Legally Separated
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I sometimes wonder the very same thing. You are not alone in that regard. I can only hope that it will happen. Sending good thoughts your way.

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No sign of remorse from my XH. But he's still with OW.

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HIP,

Are you still 3,000 miles away? What is your plan? Are you trying to save your M?

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Originally Posted by gg615
If you are asking about while in R, for WSs the remorse comes when their EN are met and there are no LBs (and no longer in the fog). That is when they grasp the damage that was done and truly feel shame for putting their spouse through it all. If you're writing about WS who choose OM/OW, they may never grasp remorse because they are selfish. If it doesn't workout with OM/OW then they remember what they had and may start to feel remorse, pain. I've seen that happen repeatedly here.

No it doesn’t. Not anywhere I have seen. Here or irl.

Let’s get real. WW never ever directly feel the pain of what they have done. They don’t feel any pain when they are causing it. They don’t feel it when they stop causing it. They don’t feel any pain when they start up again. They don’t even feel this pain when they themselves get betrayed. They don’t feel it on their deathbed.

Your words do not happen in recovery, do not happen if D, do not happen when the adultery ends, they simply do not happen. This is wishful thinking. They don’t feel the pain of what they have done to you even when they themselves think they get it.



HIP, your best bet is to negotiate/beg/demand/otherwise arrange to have her meet your EN’s so well you are drugged back into the MB fold and can forget her adultery happened. That is what the MB method is basically all about, you know. Have your ENs met sufficiently and you kind of slip into a sleepy don’t care any more state. It’s called recovering romantic love, but it’s just EN satiation, as in addiction, within the marriage.

Until she does it again.


"Never forget that your pain means nothing to a WS." ~Mulan

"An ethical man knows it is wrong to cheat on his wife. A moral man will not actually do it." ~ Ducky

WS: They are who they are.

When an eel lunges out
And it bites off your snout
Thats a moray ~DS
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I've given up on my M. Don't want that wh*re back in my life anymore. Unfortunately, we'll always be connected at the hip in some way - our beautiful kids! California law s*cks! Imagine, I have to share my kids 50-50 with an adulterous wh*re who really has no feelings towards my kids.

Good news is that it's a few years wait until both my babies turn 18 and will never look back at their wh*ring Mom ever again!

Yes, I am still 3000 Miles away, suffering because I'm away from my kids...


Me: 42
WW: 41
Married: 16 years
Known each other: 21 years
S12 D10.5
A Started: Nov 8, 2008
First Discovery: Dec 26th ("Just a Friend" excuse)
Big D-day: Jan 10th (Recorded evidence of full-blown A)
WW Moved out: Feb 1st, 2009.
Plan B started: Feb 13th, 2009.
D Papers served on me by WW: Feb 17th, 2009.
Plan B currently blown, A continues!
WW moved back into home: Feb 23rd, 2009.
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Originally Posted by HeartInPain
I've given up on my M. Don't want that wh*re back in my life anymore. Unfortunately, we'll always be connected at the hip in some way - our beautiful kids! California law s*cks! Imagine, I have to share my kids 50-50 with an adulterous wh*re who really has no feelings towards my kids.

Good news is that it's a few years wait until both my babies turn 18 and will never look back at their wh*ring Mom ever again!

Yes, I am still 3000 Miles away, suffering because I'm away from my kids...

You sound like you are in a lot of pain, i am sorry for that.

What do you do now?

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Originally Posted by HeartInPain
Too many folks have been consoling me with the equivalent of "Oh! She's gonna be a train wreck!" or "She's gonna have an absolutely miserable time ahead in her life. Just wait and see..."

But, to date, the wh*re is doing her thing with full abandon and not an iota of repent.

Does it ever come? Does the fog ever lift for them? Can they really ever be happy in life knowing full well what destruction they have caused?

HiP,

You are hurting big time right now and your WW is NOT -- which makes your hurt even greater -- every BS here has been where you are now, myself included. I know this sounds like "pie in the sky", but the hurt will slowly decrease as you stay in Plan B/NC ... there is no point or utility whatsoever in having her in your life in any way (outside of what is absolutely needed for your kids), so don't. [I am assuming you have done some sort of Plan A-like activity beforehand.]

As for your questions, EVERY BS wonders those exact things as well, and "it can't be soon enough" for all BSs...I know. There is no way to know or predict with certainty when (or even IF) it will happen, but it USUALLY does...sometimes, sadly, long after the BS doesn't care any more and it no longer holds any meaning for them.


Here are some general principles about the WS "fog":

1. The fog blinds them completely (or nearly so) to the pain they have caused/are causing to their BS/family/friends/etc. Don't expect much in the way of self-awareness, honesty, empathy, or remorse while the fog is in effect.

2. The fog is caused by the addictive high of the brain chemicals (phenylethylamine, PEA, being the primary one) that are released and in play associated with her having "fallen in love" with the OM.

3. Only 3 things cause the fog/chemicals to dissipate and rational, empathetic thinking to return: the WS voluntarily & permanently breaking off the A (rare), the OP dumping them/ending the A (fairly common), and TIME (universal). The "head-over-heels" infatuation [limerance] phase of ANY relationship is inherently self-limited and is nothing more than a temporary bio-evolutionary mating call that serves to perpetuate the species....akin to "heat" or "the rutting season" is for 4-legged animals.

4. If the A continues, it usually takes 2-3 years for the "love chemicals" (and therefore "the fog") to naturally abate. This is virtually universal. 2 years is average, but clandestine relationships (as all affairs are for at least a while) tend to have somewhat extended "limerance phases". Figure ~2 years from the time of exposure and the A being fully brought out into the light of day (assuming of course that exposure fails to result in the affair-partners splitting due to outside pressures).

5. This is why the Harley's recommend "waiting 2 years" in Plan B after exposure if you want to try and save the M (as difficult as that seems and is).

6. Assuming the A survives (which many do not) through the ~2 year period, the affair-partners fairly quickly lose the effortless, euphoric, ga-ga, in-love feelings induced by PEA and have to either end it or accept each other "as they are". Psychologists call this the "VOLUNTARY love phase". Most affairs and most OP's do not and cannot possibly live up to the idealized fantasy that was at play in the limerance phase. Most WSs enter the A as an escape or a 'search for something more' and discover that their OP is someone they really have little true connection/commonality with and is someone they would never have "chosen" as a romantic partner under emotionally-healthy circumstances in the first place.

7. To be fair and not sugar-coat, a small percentage of affairs DO survive well beyond the ~2-year period. Usually this is because the A is still undiscovered/unexposed, the BS is allowing continued cake-eating, or because divorce(s) has/have occurred and the partners affair-marry each other. 90% of such 'affair-ages', which most often happen in the foggy phase "before the ink is dry", go on to divorce within 10 years and only a small fraction survive until "death do us part".


http://womensinfidelity.com/


Last edited by SDCWman; 05/09/09 08:43 PM. Reason: typo

xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
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Originally Posted by Aphelion
Originally Posted by gg615
If you are asking about while in R, for WSs the remorse comes when their EN are met and there are no LBs (and no longer in the fog). That is when they grasp the damage that was done and truly feel shame for putting their spouse through it all. If you're writing about WS who choose OM/OW, they may never grasp remorse because they are selfish. If it doesn't workout with OM/OW then they remember what they had and may start to feel remorse, pain. I've seen that happen repeatedly here.

No it doesn’t. Not anywhere I have seen. Here or irl.

Let’s get real. WW never ever directly feel the pain of what they have done. They don’t feel any pain when they are causing it. They don’t feel it when they stop causing it. They don’t feel any pain when they start up again. They don’t even feel this pain when they themselves get betrayed. They don’t feel it on their deathbed.

Your words do not happen in recovery, do not happen if D, do not happen when the adultery ends, they simply do not happen. This is wishful thinking. They don’t feel the pain of what they have done to you even when they themselves think they get it.

Aphelion, you are REALLY starting to get on my nerves. I mean REEEEEEALLY getting on my nerves. Stop using YOUR situation to describe everyone else. It's getting really old.

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never mind...

Last edited by sickwithworry; 05/08/09 10:20 PM.
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It really goes deeper than that with me SWW - it's personal. I know he never presents a rosy picture of marriage building but there are many, many WS's on MB that don't fit with his insulting summation of a WS. It REALLY p*s me off. I've been on MB since 2004 and I'm in contact with a number of FWWs who just do NOT fit in with his reasoning.

Geez, it gets my panties in a wad.


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Originally Posted by KiwiJ
It really goes deeper than that with me SWW - it's personal. I know he never presents a rosy picture of marriage building but there are many, many WS's on MB that don't fit with his insulting summation of a WS. It REALLY p*s me off. I've been on MB since 2004 and I'm in contact with a number of FWWs who just do NOT fit in with his reasoning.

Geez, it gets my panties in a wad.

Perhaps I am not seeing the trees for the forest. I just haven't seen many former wayward spouses come back to "reality" to convince me that it's probable or even a decent % that they will come back to reality.

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I've seen many. Not just the WSs who come here on their own volition but the BS's who have had them come back.

I've also seen a lot of very disheartening stories but what I am really taking exception to is Aphelion's constant harping about WW's "never getting it".

It makes me so mad, steam comes out of my ears.

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Don't think in absolutes. Think more in terms of a bell curve - the majority toward the middle and the minorities on the edges. Aphelion and his WW are each on one extreme of their respective curves but he believes he is in the middle.

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okay, sorry about that.

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Absolutely, Pio. Thank you for putting it like that.

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Originally Posted by piojitos
Don't think in absolutes. Think more in terms of a bell curve - the majority toward the middle and the minorities on the edges. Aphelion and his WW are each on one extreme of their respective curves but he believes he is in the middle.

but in the center of the bell curve seems to be the data that most of these things don't work out happily. Isn't that true?

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I don't believe so. I really don't.

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Originally Posted by KiwiJ
I don't believe so. I really don't.

Just read your first thread. I understand now.

good night all, sorry for the T/J.

SWW

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