This may help...

I had the same situation with my brother...He told me:
"If you take your #@@#$ wife back I will never speak to you ever again... you can forget you have a brother"


I asked him if it was because he loved me and thought she would hurt me again. His eyes welled up and he said "Of COURSE that's why I'm saying this..you are just blinded by love" "I just want you to be happy you deserve that"

So I said.... "What if we are happy for TEN YEARS?" "Will that prove to you this is the right thing to do?" "Will you talk to me then?" He said.. "I'll give you five"

I said DEAL....

A year after we reconciled he invited us all for Christmas dinner.... Although he never started conversation with her he talked to her when she talked to him... and then they were fine...

So....understand that's what is up with your mother... she'd trying to protect you FROM YOURSELF... but it is impossible for anyone but you and your H to REALLY really know what can happen...

Thank you, PH.

And I understand that my mother is trying to protect me in her own way..

But I could really use the support of ANYONE.

I guess I just need to realize that I can't make everyone happy.

No matter which way I go -- attempt to recover or choose The Big D -- I'm gonna catch crap for it, from someone..

Then go to United Way or AA or NA and get some REAL advice from the experts on what you should do with an addict. Do what THEY tell you to do. Ok?

So..

I know from reading many of the threads on here, as well as the basics from Harley, that Plan A and Plan B are most definitely created for use while the A is still alive..

From any of the Vets on here -- Do you think that Plan B would be effective in my situation?

The A is done. The drugs are done. But WH is still not home.

He still insists that D is the only option. But I believe in my heart of hearts that this is the Depression talking, the WH talking, not my "real" H.

My problem with thinking that Plan B would be effective is that right now (much like ANY time he has ever left), he is deep within his family's arms.

His parents and brother are proud believers of the fact that Depression is NOT a real condition -- that it is just a cop out for someone who doesn't want to deal with reality.

I know from my upbringing, as well as from personal experience, that it IS real. But also, that it CAN be treated.

So I am scared that Plan B'ing him will only push him deeper into the beliefs of his parents, and that he will not seek help, and that it will just be signing my D papers.

It kills me to watch what my H's Depression is doing to our children. My 3yo woke up this morning and said, "Hey, Mommy, wanna hear a funny story? My Daddy is a jerk. He is mean. He doesn't live here anymore. And I hate him."

This coming from a child who just turned three two weeks ago..

I talked to a few people from the local NA, and they don't think H has an "addiction," so to speak, but more that it was just him trying to reach out for help. Trying to get attention.

And that is what I saw it as. That is why I did not kick him out or anything. And they said that I was good for that. That so long as he is honest about it being a one or two time thing, and that there is no evidence of more drug use and that he knows I will drug test him, should I suspect anything else, that I should have let him stay here.

So I really don't know if drugs are even the issue here.

I really think I am just battling the Depression, and his turning his back on God.

I don't say "just" because I think this is anything easier or lighter, only that my enemy seems to be a two-headed dragon, instead of a five- or six-headed one.

You said on one of your other threads:

Not at all.
If you were serious, if they were true boundaries, then it means you either ask him to move out (he already has), you file for D, you file for separation, you Plan B. Any of those will do. His crossing a boundary means you take steps to remove yourself from the environment.

If you think your finances may be in jeopardy, then see a lawyer and see if your state allows you to file for separation; this can carry the same kind of ruling by the court to establish visitation, alimony, child support, etc.

If you don't think your finances are at risk, then I'd say go to plan B. But you MUST do that with a Plan B letter which is correctly written. If you choose Plan B you should do so with lots of input from the experienced folks here. They can coach you about how to Plan B with small children involved (how to handle being dark when he's visiting the kids, etc.).

But he broke the boundaries. If they were true boundaries then you would prefer to be divorced than in a marriage which includes the type(s) of behavior(s) he is exhibiting. If they are true boundaries then you will only be satisfied with a change in his behavior or a D anyway. I don't see where the fear is coming from.

Were they not really boundaries? Were you bluffing?

No. They really are boundaries. As hard as it was, I knew that asking him to leave was the only way to show him that he was out of line.

This would all be so much easier if he was doing this with a stable mind. But I know my H -- Even though we have only been married for three years, I have known him since we were 15. Ironically, we met in the midst of his parents' DDay.

********

H is SEVERELY depressed. He truly is. And it kills me to see him do this to himself.

I feel like if I keep Plan A'ing him, he will continue to treat me as his doormat. And I feel like if I Plan B him, he will just file. And he will run to his family (like he is now), and he will never get himself help.

It's not even just that I want him to get help for the sake of me or our M. Regardless of which way we go (even though, obviously, I want R and my M back, or I wouldn't be here), I will always love him. And I can't stand to see ANYONE I love, whether family, friend or whomever, need help soo badly, yet no one will help them.

I feel like if I could just convince his parents or his brother that H REALLY needs IC, or meds, or a combination of the two, then it would clue H in. I think it's just because it's coming from me -- and he doesn't exactly see me in the best light right now.

That's why I am still trying to Plan A him, in hopes that he will see I really do have good intentions. That I am not just out "to control him" like he thinks. My motive behind seeking help for him is not selfishness.

But it is so hard to Plan A him, when he is not here. He doesn't call. He doesn't come around. He is just gone.

I know I am nowhere in a Plan right now.. I am torn between which I should be in.

Can I Plan A while H is away? Or is my only choice Plan B?

If there is an addiction in play, I don't think either plan will help. I would even go further to say if he has a chemical imbalance causing the depression, that either plan will help. You cannot MAKE him get help. You know that right? No amount of needling, wheedling, begging, crying, being nice, babying or pampering will MAKE him do anything.

If I were you, I would Plan A (as much as you can) if you get the chance, but at the same time, start making plans for YOUR life without him. Otherwise, you will never move from the place you are now. If he wants help, he'll get it.

I know that I cannot MAKE him get help.

But how do I let him do what he is doing, yet continue to see the kids?

***

I am trying to make plans for my life without him. But, honestly, that is nearly impossible, financially.

Until two weeks ago, I did not work. I have always been a stay-at-home Mom. How do I just let him walk out, taking everything away, refusing to help financially or physically?

It is SOO hard to Plan A while he does this.

I don't have anywhere to go. That is why I am so desperate. I feel like a fool for allowing myself to become SO dependent on another person. But I just NEVER thought it would come to this. I NEVER thought I would be a 24-year-old, single mother of two with no income.

That is why I feel like it is so hard to do anything but file, and force him to pay for the kids and help out with the bills.

BUT I DON'T WANT A DIVORCE.

So I actually just got off of the phone with him.

We are at a point where he will actually answer the phone. He participates in our conversation. He doesn't yell. He doesn't argue. It's like normal talk again..

He got kinda offended because he asked if he could talk to our oldest son, and I said "Sure". Well, our son did not want to talk to him. I didn't want to force him to. So I let him continue to do what he was doing, and continued my conversation with H.

A few minutes further in our conversation, I asked DS3 again if he wanted to talk to Daddy. He said "NO. I don't like Daddy anymore. He won't come home and play with me anymore."

H could hear all of this. H just got really quiet. I put H on speakerphone, and H goes, "Hey DS3, how are you doing?"

DS3 just told him that he was doing good. Said that he didn't want to talk to him. That he just wanted to play with Mommy and to leave us alone. Then said, "I'm done talking to you Dad," and gave the phone back to me. H said, "Wait, DS3 -- I love you." And DS3 just said, "Okay, bye."

((DS3 tells me ILY at least 20 times a day. And he used to tell H that.))

I finished talking to H. He was pretty quiet for the rest of the conversation. I finished with, "I love you. Good night. Sweet dreams." And he said "Bye" and hung up.

***

On the one hand, I feel horrible that DS3 feels this way about H. When I got off of the phone with H, I sat him down and talked to him. I explained that Daddy was just staying with Uncle for a little bit. That he didn't hate him. And that he wasn't mean. DS3 followed with "Then why doesn't Daddy wanna come home and play with me anymore?"

That part broke my heart.

But on the other hand, H is starting to see what he is doing. That yes, he is hurting me, but that I am not the only one suffering from his "punishment".

H did say he will deposit his check in the bank, so that I can take care of bills. Everything is still joint. So, for example, if he doesn't give me money to pay the cell phone bill, his phone gets cut off, too. I think he realized this today.

This phone call made me think that Plan A is still a potential Plan. I didn't do any of those things -- LBs, DJs, demands, yell, accuse -- and things actually were accomplished.

Maybe I am being naive though..

I have no idea about dealing with addicts. However, in order to get a divorce, one has to put forth the effort to file. Case in point, my WXH screamed and hollered about wanting to separate legally and then divorce, but I was the one who drew up the LSA. He's screamed at me numerous times that he wants a divorce - and here all you have to do is fill out a form you can download online for free and mail it to city hall. Why does he scream? He wants it done but doesn't want to do it himself.

One of the things Plan B does is it puts the onus on him to do and take care of things he's used to having you do. Yes, it makes them angry at first. But, at least in the case of an affair, it makes them realize what they are losing/have lost. They need to come to this realization on their own. I don't think an addict is entirely different. The ones that break the addiction are the ones that make this decision themselves, not the ones who's families have dumped them in a rehab facility. As a smoker, I can tell you nothing anyone has ever said to me, no matter how close they were or how important to me, has ever made a difference. I have been able to successfully quit - when I made the choice myself.

As a warning to you - I have never managed to stay quit for more than a year. Even my mom who quit about 15 years ago says that the first thing she's going to do if they ever tell her she's got 6 months to live is buy cigarettes and start smoking again. An addict is always an addict. You may want to think about this very carefully.

I don't know that I would call him an addict. I am not a psychiatrist. He refuses to see one. I am not the one to make that diagnosis.

I do know that he is depressed. And I think the drug use was simply an attempt to "self-medicate". He did it twice. I have other people who can vouch for this. And he quit before I found out.

I think that everything he is doing is his attempt to self-medicate -- he is trying to do whatever he can to escape reality.

I don't really think he is too different from most Waywards. From what I have learned, both here and elsewhere, Waywards have the whole "The grass is greener on the other side" mentality. That they think their homelife is just miserable, and that an A is their "medicine" to make it all better.

I can't remember- are you in IC?

If so, ask your therapist about your H and see if his depression and use of Singles sites and marijuana might be indicative of an addictive personality. Obviously a therapist can't diagnose based on your information, but they MIGHT be able to tell you if a group like al-anon could be helpful to you.

IF your H is an addict of some type, then al-anon will teach you what you can and cannot realistically expect from him, and when your "love" becomes enabling behavior. They'll help you establish healthy boundaries for yourself.

I am not physically seeing an IC, but I have been communicating with one for about 4 months, via email. (Before any of this, actually..)

The reason I am talking with him via email rather than seeing someone else in person is because he was my counselor about two years ago when I was going through some things. At that time, he was located nearby. He has since moved to FL (I am in TX), so face-to-face counseling is not an option. However, he was a huge help to me back then, so I chose to turn to him for guidance again.

Oh. And also -- back about 8 years ago when the in-laws were going through their own DDay and R, my H turned to this same IC.

So he knows a lot about both me and H, and our families.

***

I did talk to him about H and have told him about everything, one at a time, as I have been discovering them. He does believe that H has an addictive personality. He also thinks that H has a lot of unresolved issues with his parents about FIL's A's and how they chose to deal with them. He believes that H is severely depressed. That his family encourages his depression by refusing to acknowledge the giant elephant in the room. But he also agrees with what many have told me -- "forcing" H to get help won't do any good. He won't be receptive to anything that IC has to say. The only way H will ever heal is if HE chooses to get IC.

He actually suggested that I follow :The Love Dare: (which is a lot like Plan A), so that I can demonstrate to him that I do love him and that I am suggesting help because I love him and want to maintain our R and M. He says that if I don't convince him that my motive is of love and concern, H is just going to see me as a threat. And that I am just trying to "control him".

I don't know if anyone has recommended this book, but The Power of a Praying Wife, by Stormie O'Martian, has been great for me recently. Mine, too, has lost his faith while my faith is growing. This book is so helpful in knowing how to pray for your husband and even has written out prayers. I photocopied one to keep with me all the time and to look and pray. I also recommend Beth Moore's book, Praying God's Word. Lots of turning God's promises into personal prayers and is specifically for breaking spiritual strongholds. God bless you and remember God is at work. You work on YOU! God will do His perfect work as we trust in HIM!

Jewelsos,

Thank you SO MUCH for your words of encouragement.

I haven't ever heard of (or been recommended) that book. I will definitely look into that.

Your basic message, though, has been my strongest lesson in all of this -- I can only change me.

So that is what I am doing. I hope and pray that H will be the one who gets to enjoy this newer, stronger, better ME. But I cannot control that.

Thank you to everyone who has been there to help lift my spirits.

And thank you also to all of you on here who have been brutally honest, regardless of whether or not it was what I wanted to hear.

So..

I am kinda torn on something.

My son -- who just turned three a couple of weeks ago -- said the following when I picked him up after work yesterday:

"Hey, Mommy.. Wanna hear a funny story? Daddy and his girlfriend..."

And I stopped him there.

WHAT?

I asked H about it. He thinks I'm making it up. I talked to MIL (where H is living now). She says it's not possible. He is always either her house or work. H supposedly "never goes anywhere".

Yeah.

Right.

So..

On the one hand -- kids say the darnedest things. I mean, my son will argue that the sky is pink and the grass is black and that he saw a pig flying last night while he was on a rocket ship. So this very well could just be a not-so-funny "funny story", much like those he tells me daily.

But on the other hand -- where would DS3 ever have even LEARNED the word "girlfriend"?

UGH.

It's such a complicated situation..

Honestly, I do not think that H is still "looking for attention", like he once said.. But I can't help but wonder where DS3 would have gotten this idea..

MIL seems to think that H just "taught" DS3 this phrase to say to me to hurt me. Because H seems to think that I am "teaching" (or actually, he calls it "brainwashing") DS3 to HATE him. Because DS3 will tell H that he is mean or that he doesn't like him or whatever..

I think that's all just part of those ::Terrible Twos:: that the world talks about. But maybe that is just my sane mind thinking..

OH -- And another thing.

I was accused of STALKING my H today.

EVERY SUNDAY for the past few months, my sons and I (and used to be H, too) go to a local park to have a picnic dinner and feed the ducks and watch the sunset over the lake while we take an evening walk. It's always the same park. Has been for months.

Well, today is Sunday. Surprise. We went to the park (without H though).

I pull into the parking lot and guess whose car I see: H's car and BIL's truck.

Well, now I am a STALKER, because they were there first, and I was OBVIOUSLY following them.

Nevermind the fact that I go there EVERY SUNDAY.

He is having an affair. First, your son would never come up with that on his own. (unless he heard it from you, in anger or something) And second, people in affairs try to turn the fault onto you, always. To take you off guard. Make you feel guilty. Make you afraid to claim anything.

Are you snooping?

I can't really "snoop" when H doesn't live here and has separated himself from me and our home, minus our once-a-week children exchange..

Unless there is something I am missing here..

Yes, you are stalking him, lol! And no, by gosh, he doesn't have a girlfriend, you ARE brainwashing your son, and of course its all your fault!!! Garbage spewed out of a drug-induced, affair-fogged brain. You just keep up the good work! And do NOT believe lies, lies, lies and more lies.
Just work on you and keep your kids hearts healthy as possible. Don't let them hear bad things from you about your husband. He may come to his senses and we want to keep damage minimal. I know how my kids are reacting to their dad's strange new behavior, and they, being older, are making their own judgments. But our job is to train them up right.
And find those books I mentioned. Also, Love Must Be Tough by James Dobson helped me. Its for marriages in Crisis. I gorge on those types of books right now, gleaning all I can to help my situation and help me to stay above it all.
I'll pray for your peace today. You have it a little better because my WH would not move out and I couldn't, so seeing him all the time knowing he was doing this was agony. I would think out of sight would help. Maybe not. But God is on the move! Take heart!