I agree with Cat's statement. Remember the dating days?

Here I am--having literally pushed my husband into withdrawal with my insistence that I need to separate. I think I have valid reason. All the O&H about my feelings is met with stony silence or a "when you say that I feel guilty and bad so don't say that" and left me feeling really alone and desperate. So I said I was done trying to be the queen enabler and I wanted space. His response to that was to just withdraw. And like an idjit, I'm thinking about reaching out to him. I'm not--because I need to focus on me--but I'm still thinking about it.

Dkd, I don’t think it’s a one-size-fits all. A lady this weekend asking, “why isn’t he fighting for the marriage?” And others who say, “I’m done.” I think the Harleys could help you determine which way you want to go here.

When you were living together, who was more the Clinger and who more the Avoider? If she was like cat and OH, the avoider, then it makes sense to give her some space to feel safe. But if she was the Clinger, she may be feeling abandoned if you’re not trying to contact her more.

huh, thought I responded to this. Guess not.

In general terms, I'm probably the clinger, and she would be the avoider. However, if I start withdrawing, it's pretty common for her to pull me back in...to a level she's comfortable with.

Maybe should I just keep on doing what I have been doing. Basically doing what comes naturally, other then DJs or AOs of course. For example, if she looks attractive to me, I let her know. When she's not so much, I don't say anything.

I'm also doing better at understanding how I feel, I think. I think I was quick to find blame when I didn't feel good emotionally. Another example, last night was my night with the kids After I had picked them up, I got an email from W saying that DD2 learned a 'Spanish Chocolate' song and I should have her sing it for me. I did, and even recorded it on the computer (the kids love being recorded for some reason). I sent the recording back to W. Never got a response back.

So I feel kind of lousy this morning. In the past, I would put that all on not getting a response back. While it would have been nice, maybe a little annoying, it's not a big deal and understandable. She knows I like responses, and really is good about it. Truth is, my back is killing me and I probably need another cup of coffee. I just need to stop complaining (internally) and deal with that instead of needing a solution.

I think you'd be better off researching why you need a response. The deep stuff about yourself...it permeates everything. If you're a clinger, it shows. It makes people withdraw. If you need a response, it shows. It makes people annoyed at having to respond. See how that works?

You're better off spending your time thinking about YOU and why YOU do what you do, rather than what she may or may not like about you and/or how you do something.

You're focusing way too much on her, which is like licking a brick wall to wear it down with water.

oh boy. FoO. Yea. Well, my mother behaves similarly, so in some respect I picked up the habit from her. As well, my family moved around alot when I was growing up. In fact, I never had Christmas in the same house more then once, until I was 12. Those are the things I think of for FoO.

Growing up, I pretty much would have 1 friend at a time until late in HS. Even then, I had a best friend that was in much higher regard then anyone else. If friends were going out, I expected precedent from this friend over everyone else. We were a team.

College was similar, except I had my clic, and I didn't like anyone else getting in it, nor when somebody in the click stepped out to be with other people for a change. Wasn't as bad as before, but it was there.

When someone doesn't respond back, I feel... alone. Like I'm not important to that person. When someone is late, I get the same feeling if they don't have a reason for it.

On the other hand, I can take or leave many friends...even family. In sounds insensitive, but I don't count on them for anything, and don't invest into them. I haven't talked to my brother in almost a year, and it doesn't bother me. I feel some guilt, but I don't miss him at all.

I don't have a middle ground. I don't know how to need somebody, just a little bit, or even give half way very well.

I have friends, people I do things with, but they don't mean much to me. I wouldn't lose much of anything if they just disappeared from my life. When I'm lonely, there is no one I want to talk to, except my W. I don't go out and do much of anything socially, and I don't really push to get much of a social life.

And I imagine that's the solution. If I can find some middle ground friends, then I would not need my W so much. I wouldn't need to cling to anyone.

I don't want to push to be more active with my friends. They all have busy lives and it's not always all that fun doing stuff with them anyway. I don't want to go through all the effort of making new friends. I don't want to join yet another group and fit into the crowd.

I want people to need me, to want to be around me to the point where they want to call me up and do something with me.

Yuck. I don't want to be dramatic, woe is me. It's not like that. I handle being by myself pretty well. It's just that I believe that's why I am sensitive to lack of attention.

Well, a few things happened yesterday. On the way to church DS4 told me that he got a new leapster from Mommy's husband. Of course, I knew that wasn't true, but I hated hearing that. I hated how it made me feel. I wasn't mad at DS4, or W, just the situation.

And as chance would have, I had to stop by the house to get shoes for DS4. W was expecting me, but slept in, so I had to let myself in. She woke up and felt bad about not being up. She could tell that I was upset, she asked me what was wrong, if she did something wrong, and I just told her I was in a bad mood, she didn't do anything wrong...and left for Church.

She calls me a minute later and asks me again. Was it related to me? I answer honestly, yes, but I didn't want to talk about it. I told her I call and talk to her about after Church.

So when I call I tell her, and she tells me she's not seeing anyone, even though I didn't ask. She ends up telling me alot about what's going on with her. She told me she can't stand it when I'm upset with her...it was really bothering her.

Anyway, for whatever reason, I can't sleep last night. I wasn't worried or excited about anything. So I get the stupid idea that I was going to send an email to her, just repeating the stuff she's said over the past few days. I figured it was good to show I listened, and thought it would give her a little peace. The exact oppossite happened, it stressed her out and she told me that she didn't want to feel like she need to responded, or that I was up thinking about it in the middle of the night. She said she wanted me to move on so we could be real friends and be better parents.

I told her that I didn't think it through, my bad. Didn't say anything about moving on.

So I feel a little numb (and tired). I keep thinking about what Cat said, about working on myself. Maybe it's time I go firmly in withdrawl. I need to find a way to stop thinking about us. I need to stop trying to understand. I don't know that I can just move on, but I need to stop...something.

Wow, dkd, is that a HUGE red flag or am I off base here? Have you ever posted over on GQII to see if there is more you should be doing to get your family back together?

I don't see the red flag.

BTW, I simplified our conversation on Sunday. She said she is not seeing anyone. I later asked if there was anyone she wanted to date, and she said no. She thinks about dating, but doesn't feel ready and thinks that most guys would be interested in the wrong thing if they did try and date her now. She said it will be a long time before she does date.

For the most part, I know where she is most of the time. She tells me where she's going if she's going out.

I don't know what's going on with her, but I don't think I should try and find out.

Why does she tell you where she's going? That makes no sense.

Most of the time it's just because it comes up in conversation. I'd guess that she doesn't want me to think she's out partying (we had the conversation a long time ago). Perhaps she feels a little guilt as well, and letting me know aleviates that somehow. I'm really guessing though.

But you two live separately, right? That's like your buddy George calling and saying 'hey, I'm just letting you know I'm going to the firing range, and then I'm meeting my brother at the bar.' And you're going 'um...ok?'

See what I'm saying? You sound like you are still together, but you're not. If so, that may be why you're having trouble distancing yourself and getting her out of your head.

Either be separated, or move back in together.

It's not like that. If she plans on doing something on a Friday night, I'll likely find out about it sooner or later. She doesn't call me everytime she goes to the grocery store or something like that.


Yes that is a big part of why she's in my head. The other is probably my personality to an extent.

I don't know how much that will change in the near future. It will slow down some when summer starts.

Dkd, is physical affection important to her? Do you put your hand on her hand or shoulder sometimes when you’re talking, or give her a hug when you two say hello and goodbye, so she can have a tactile reminder of how that made her feel? I know it may not sound like much, but I think that could be a powerful reminder if affection was a big EN for her.

I forgot where I read Dr. H talks about how separated couples reunite. It starts when the H stays overnight, on the couch, and over time gets invited to stay in the room, and then it’s a small jump to move back in.

Somewhat. She isn't someone who needs to cuddle much, or wanted to hold hands or anything. But hugs, yes. Now, she would hug me if I didn't something especially nice for her, otherwise, I would need to chase her down....and I do sometimes.

Does she feel it? I think so, but she doesn't want to. She will back off if I get too close.

Dkd, I’m asking because I have friends who have complained about their relationships, that not all their needs are met, but they keep going back, again and again, because top ones are met. Things like FC (family commitment) and affection and SF. I think if you could just get back into the house, even if the situation isn’t “perfect” right off the bat, then with these MB tools, you can build a romantic love together again.

NED, I've always believed that. I believe in us. She believes in me, and she believes in her, but not us.

I don't know how or if that will ever change. But I know that I improve the odds if I work on me.

How does this sound?


I'm trying to avoid DJs, be honest, and POJA the problem. I know I could just chose the 2nd or 3rd option whether she wants to or not.

And FYI, this is not the first time bills have been late. So that shows both that I'm not overreacting, and that perhaps I am overreacting, since it has not effected my credit yet. I just don't want to chance it.

It seems fine to me.

Thanks Cat.

I added that I did not know how late a bill needed to be before it would get reported. We have been late before and not been reported.

I know it's important to her to pay these bills. She wants to feel like she's handling things on her own. When this first started happening, the problem was that the bills were all coming in at once. So I had some of the billing dates changed. Then it was that she wasn't getting enough money from me, so I gave her more money. And it's still happening.