I feel like I have begun to heal quite a bit already. I have learned a lot about myself, the choices I made that led me to this relationship and what makes a good, healthy marriage.

I don't feel like I am rushing the D. I feel like it is part of the healing process and I want to move forward with it. I'm sure she will try to talk me out of it once she figures out what is going on. She knows I filed for D, but I think she believes I am going to wait for 6 months (the term of her lease) while she figures out what she wants.

ed, I don't feel like you are rushing the D either. I think you are in a situation where you have to protect your kids first. And I don't believe she will change until she sees you are serious about not accepting the status quo. Like you said, you can always remarry some day if she truly changes.

Good luck to you ed. I think I would be onto Plan D too. I'm with the "no" vote on the dating thing and hope you stick to it. Don't lose sight that you will always be able to say you were faithful in the marriage. Once you cross that line, you can never undo it.

Please be sure to put protections in place where your children are concerned. WW can and likely will expose them to all sorts of garbage as her life falls apart. She has no boundaries. Do not trust her to act appropriately where you children are concerned...spell it out and put it in print.

The other night I told my daughter that the reason mommy and daddy were not living together was that her mommy broke a special promise that she made to daddy. I explained that when people get married they make a promise and that it should never be broken.

So my 5 yr old asks my wife whe she broke her promise to daddy and says she was mean for doing that. My wife is pissed! Called me a fu**ing idiot (in front of the kids). Classy woman... I know. I am so done with her.

She says that she has talked to several people that say it is inapropriate to tell the truth to a 5 yr old and that I am turning my daughter against her. She is a piece of work.

She is still dropping by the house even though I tried to implement plan B. I know that is unacceptable in Plan B, but I really dont care. She is moving and still has stuff her. She also hung out at the house on Halloween when her family came over. I do not want to make a huge deal about it. Plan B is meant to save the marriage which I don't want to do. So I have been talking to her to arrange visits with the kids.

Ed, i would make sure she understands WHAT that promise IS, lest she grow up confused thinking that just breaking a promise is grounds for divorce. If you don't start teaching your DD that adultery is wrong, your W will teach her that it is RIGHT, i assure you. And she will blame the breakup on you.

Kids are screwed up by lies and adultery, not by telling them the truth. Dr Harley is a clinical psychologist with 35+ years experience and he advocates telling the kids.

As if your W cares a crap that telling the truth to her DD will harm her. That is an astonishing statement coming from a "mother" who abandoned her own child so she can chase men.

If anyone has links to any articles discussing the benefits of being honest with children about affairs please post them. I know pretty much everyone here agrees that this is the right thing to do. I would like to send my wife some reading material. Thanks!

Dr. Harley on telling the children:

This is a segment that is sloppily and partially transcribed by me that was on the Dr Laura show. I thought Dr. Laura made some EXCELLENT and profound points about the effects of lying to children about adultery. I don't always agree with her views on adultery, but she is right on in this aspect.

Dr. Harley, as many of you know, is a strong advocate of telling the children the TRUTH.

Dr. Laura show [4:25 min into segment - 5-15-08]

Caller: Husband had an affair with good friend for 2 years. Her H ws one of his "buddies."

Dr. Laura: Do you have minor children?

Caller: Yes, we both do

Dr. Laura: They are willing to hurt your kids? Why are they willing to break up the families?

caller: Basically, they said they are not "happy."

Dr L: So that is the explanation for being willing to hurt their kids? They are doing this to be "happy?"

What can I do to possibly help you?

Caller: I need to know what to tell my kids.

Dr. Laura: THE TRUTH. They are breaking up 2 families because they have decided.....

See, I am not of the school where you stand by and do pretend with kids where this is all ok. Because this is NOT OK.

The most important story is that this is NOT OK. sit down with your husband and tell him you are going to explain to our children, in a factual, non hysterical way I am going to explain to the kids the horrible thing you are doing to destroy their family. That you are "not happy" is not sufficient reason to destroy 2 families and I am going to make this clear to them because I want them to grow up understanding this is WRONG.

That is my advice. And i think everybody should be clear this is selfish behavior that is WRONG, vows were made.

Not being "happy" is something you work to turnaround, not something you destroy a family over. If both of these people were to hear this was going to happen they will have second thoughts.

DO not think for a moment you are doing wrong by telling your children this. It is your moral obligation to teach them right from wrong. EVEN when it demonstrates a parent has done wrong. The parent cannot be whitewashed and get away with that - THAT IS WRONG and that does not teach the children

I really hope alot of people hear this. Alot of ppl want to whitewash what they are doing. Kids should know that is your attitude.

But to tell the custodial parent: hey don't make me look bad for my own selfish gain is ABSURD! and is EVIL! We are going to make wrong seem ok. Kids will lose any sense of right and wrong. Kids will be taught that anything is ok as long as it makes me "happy." Kids lose any sense of right or wrong. "well, it makes me happy to use drugs" when I am 12 It makes me "happy" to get on my knees and give 4 6th graders oral sex. That is what they teach their kids.

This is what happens when you whitewash wrongdoing to make no body feel bad which is why I get called MEAN. I get called mean because I say the truth. "Its MEAN to say something is right or wrong; its mean to make somebody feel bad!" Its MEAN to say the truth. People get shut down when they get called "judgmental" when they say the truth. The intent is to shut you down. Well, I don't shut up. Kids don't learn important truths when they allow others to shut them down. We don't help our children when we don't say the truth and support them in saying what is right and wrong.

ML...I did explain that the promise was to share special hugs and kisses with daddy and that she broke the promise and shared those with another man. She seemed to understand.

I don't think my wife was worried about harming my daughter by telling her the truth. She made a comment that she did not want our daughter turned against her. Once again...its all about her.

Make sure you teach her the word ADULTERY and explain why it is immoral. My serial cheater dad introduced me to his OW when I was 4 and I KNEW something was wrong. I wish I had a parent who would have told me the truth.

Thanks for the post ML...I sent them along to my wife.

I said here is some reading material from some very well respected doctors. Guess I'm not the only f****ing idiot out there. Our kids need to grow up with morals and know the difference between right and wrong. Sorry if the TRUTH upsets you.

I know I am not doing a good plan B, but like I said before...saving the marriage is not my goal. D will hopefully be final by mid December.

I'd suggest not doing this. "Educating" your WW is not your responsibility, and trying to do so is likely to make matters worse. If you've decided that you no longer want to remain M'd to her, focus on getting her out of your life as quickly and cleanly as possible, except for any interaction necessary because of your child.

MIM, I think this falls more under the category of exposure to kids. I think when it comes to kids, that WS' should always be given the facts about how it affects kids and why it is advocated. They need to know how their actions affect their own kids in addition to knowing that others will not whitewash their sleazy behavior.

"ML...I did explain that the promise was to share special hugs and kisses with daddy and that she broke the promise and shared those with another man. She seemed to understand."

Age appropriate is not changing intercourse, banging or any other adult adjective to special hugs and kisses.

Age appropriate is saying that married people to not date other people. Mom has a boyfriend and is dating him.

If your WW has moved out then you can add that mom left to go live with the BF.

This is known as adultry and is wrong to do.

Would it be wrong for me to "educate" the OW with regards to the effects her actions are having on her 13 year old son?

Do you think the skank would even care? There is nothing wrong with it, but I doubt she cares. Waywards care about themselves only.

Been a while since i have posted...so here is an update. I still think I want to move forward with the D. I have not really been doing Plan B. Wife is still living on her own and seeing OM. I will see her and talk to her regarding the kids.

Today she asks me where I am with things. I tell her that I am not sure that I want to try to work on things. But unless she agrees to 100% NC, then I will not even consider working on things. I feel like she is looking for me to tell her I will try to save the marriage before she decides to have NC. She doesn't want to cut off ties with OM unless I have committed that I will be here waiting for her.

I have serious questions over her character and whether or not she is really good wife/mother material. I have a real problem with the cheating and lying and what that says about her character. She is still trying to place blame on me. Saying I did not meet her needs. She keeps mentioning that I would only get her flowers on our anniversary, valentines day and mothers day. I never surprised her. I think this is a load of crap. So if I brought her flowers every now and then none of this would have happened...please! I also reminded her of a time earlier this summer when I picked up flowers for her. She had forgotten all about it.

She also mentioned that I did not compliment her. Again I reminded her of several occasions where I told her she looked hot or sexy. She once again had forgotten.

I think her therapist is telling her that I am playing the victim and that I need to share part of the blame for this. I think the reasons for our affair had very little to do with needs not being met and more to do with her own issues and personality. This is what scares me and makes me think I would be better off moving on.

Just wanted to get others thoughts and insight. Thanks!

Exactly! She's trying to blame you for her sin. Someone here can correct me here if I am wrong, but I feel strongly about this. Adultery is SIN. Yes you two may have had marriage issues before her adultery. Her adultery is not a symptom of your marriage issues. It's SIN and has real life consequences. Adultery is not a marriage issue. It's a sin isssue that causes a marriage problem. You are not to accept blame/responsibility for her SIN. You cannot commit to trying to work on any marriage issues past or present until she commits to 100% turning from this SIN behaviour. So your answer is NO. You don't need to wait for her or prove anything to her. She needs to! Don't play her game of blame.

Just like you don't have medical problems, then neglect them, and then find something that makes things worse on purpose. No you seek help. Instead of seeking help she chose a path to sure destruction. Obviously if she isn't willing to seek help with you and stop this destructiveness, you need to walk away and let her whine all she wants!

Just an update on my situation...

I have been moving forward plan D. My wife is still living on her own and seeing OM. She says she really likes him...he is completely different than me. They have things in common...blah blah blah. I have blown up on a few occasions towards her out of anger and frustration over this situation. I know this is pushing her further away and I am going to stop doing this.

I met with the pastor at my church this week and he asked if he could speak with my wife. She is meeting with him this Sat, so we'll see how that goes. She also continues to see a counselor weekly I think.

Here is where I am looking for some advice and thoughts...when is it time to just cut bait and move on?? Part of feels like there has been too much damage done and that my kids and me will be better off in the long run without her. Another side of me feels sad over the loss of a dream and everything we had built together. I know my wife feels sad about this too. But she says things like..."If we got back togther, I would always be looking for something more..." "There is no spark or attraction between us" "The only reason I would try to make it work is because of the kids"

All my friends and family and also her friends and family think she has some major issues and that I should move on. But part of me thinks that if she could recognize this, and get help, then maybe we could make this work. I just don't know how long to wait...

In order for me to hold off on the D, I think the following needs to happen:

1) The affair must stop. NC for life...complete transparency
2) She needs to move back home
3) We need to start counseling together
4) She needs to take ownership for her actions and show true remorse. This is big for me. I know some say this is not necessary, but for me it is. I honestly do not think I contributed much towards the affair happening. It is mostly due to her own issues. I think her perception of happiness and love is completely distorted. If she can not recognize this and take ownership, then it is hopeless.


Just not sure how long to sit around and wait for this while she continues to engage in an affair...Any thoughts or advice??