Just looking for some support.
I very recently found out about an EA my spouse was having. Its not the first time and I am hoping I caught it before it was a PA, however, I left after I had confirmed all I thought I needed to confirm, but then I came back. What is bothering me now is that he refuses to admit anything...........and he knows I have proof. Instead, he has chosen to try and figure out just how much I DO know versus coming clean and getting over it. To me this behavior is worse because if he continues to deny then he will never be honest with me. My heart is broken. Need some advice. He wants to go through my proof line by line to "address" what I have, however, its enough that I packed up 15 yrs worth of our lives (and kids) and walked out. I had confronted him before to let him know I wouldn't stand for it but he chose to continue. Does anyone think I am fighting an uphill battle on this one? I don't want to be an idiot or a fool for him anymore, but I don't want 1/2 a husband, I want a whole one. He claims we can't go on if we don't have 100% trust in one another and I agree, but if he won't admit to any wrong doing then what am I to think?

Oh. I posted just beneath you. Our WH's sound very similar and I'm struggling with so many of the same questions and issues. I obviously don't have any answers for you, but just want to let you know you are not alone in your pain. Perhaps some others will have some good words of wisdom for us. It IS an uphill battle, but perhaps one that will be worth it in the end. At least that is what I am hoping for. I wouldn't wish marital infidelity on my worst enemy (well, perhaps on the OW *evil laugh*) Heehee. hang in there

LOL thank you sooooooooooooo much. I needed for someone to talk to. Its been terrible and I feel awful for the snooping I did, but in the end my gut and my eyes didn't lead me wrong. I just am not sure where to go from here. I am hanging on to my evidence like its gold because it made me admit that he COULD and DID lie to me all the while trying to make me believe that I was just paranoid with trust issues. But again, he won't admit to anything so I am stuck. What did you find out?Didyou have any proof?

Steven Harley had some words about spending time trying to define what an affair is:


Independent behavior + dishonesty about it with a member of the opposite sex is, to me, infidelity. I don't really consider it "adultery" unless it involves sex, but a partner doing things with a member of the opposite sex and lying about it qualifies as infidelity and an affair in my book.


Correction: Unless you have evidence that it is over, and extraordinary precautions in place to prevent its recurrence, your husband is involved in an ACTIVE and CURRENT affair, and it should be treated that way.


This is the behavior of an active wayward spouse, straight out of the playbook. Their goal is to try to misdirect you in several ways with each piece of evidence:
1. "Gaslight" you, make it your fault, make you question your judgment.
2. Claim these are the actions of people who are "just friends", no matter how inappropriate.
3. Establish how you learned of their actions in order to remove those methods of communication and drive their relationship deeper underground to avoid detection. DO NOT inform him of how you learned each piece of evidence. That will only be used to make sure that snooping method won't work again!

No member of the opposite sex should be allowed to fill a spouse's need for intimate conversation, affection, sexual fulfillment, or recreational companionship. That is how affairs start.

Advice:
1. Buy a copy of Dr. Harley's "Surviving An Affair". Right now. Drop what you're doing, order it, call around to bookstores, whatever, get a copy in your hands.
2. Once you've read the book, implement Plan A immediately.
3. Plan to expose this affair in a very directed fashion. For instance, I collected names, telephone numbers, and email addresses of every friend and relative of my wife's who I knew was a friend of our marriage. Then in a two-day span, I called them all. My script started the same way each time: "Dear friend, I called you for some advice. My wife is having an affair with (other person). I recently discovered it's been going on for the past (length of time). It has not yet become sexual as far as I know, but I don't know what to do about it. You know her so well, I could really use your advice."
Expect to receive a mystifying array of responses, but don't plan to act on them; plan to act on Dr. Harley's Plan A from Surviving An Affair.
4. Learn to share the truth of the hurt of the affair with your husband without disrespectful judgments, angry outbursts, or selfish demands.

Your goal here in Plan A is to show your husband what a loving, warm, supportive, and wonderful spouse you can be, and exactly how much he stands to lose if he continues to pursue this affair. If after some time period you set during which you can continue to meet his needs expecting nothing in return he does not abandon his affair partner, you'll move to Plan B.

And we'll cover that in another discussion. Learn the plan to work through Surviving An Affair right now.

HE HAS LOST HIS MIND..He is not your husband right now. Snoop bigtime. I think walking out is risky. It could send him over to her. DUDE

Its called Gaslighting.

He is going on the ATTACK instead of trying to DEFEND his actions. He's trying to make you feel like you're crazy for thinking anything bad. He thinks he can twist and manipulate anything you have as "evidence" and he will get away with it.

Its pretty insulting when you stop to think about it. He must have very little respect for you or your intellegnce...

Take back your power. Demand a polygraph as part of your conditions to stay with him. And I think you should require him to counsel with Steve Harley as another condition. Steve has a very unique way to GET THOUGH the wayward bullsh**. Steve will be able to explain to him why he needs to come clean with everything instead of trying to protect and hide what you do not know.

Its nothing more than downright SELFISH for him to expect you to stay around without 100% knowledge of what you are signing on for!

I even gave him the opportunity to explain the calls as family members or friends that he was just being "friends" with, but he keeps saying "I'm not calling, texting or emailing ANYONE" then hesays "just get the text messages and read them, you will see its all innocent!"
If he's not calling anyone or texting anyone, howcan I read anything? I have already done the emailing friends and family for support. He went through my emails and found these and got FURIOUS.Now he's trying to contact them to see if they "know" what proof I have found. AGAIN,this to me is an even more important issue versus moving on.

He's trying to withhold additional information from you and spin the story you've put out into something positive. Until HE is willing to come clean about the relationship with YOU, it's just so much wayward babble-talk.

Exposure infuriates the unfaithful spouse. Always has, always will. You're raining on their fantasy. That said, I do hope your evidence is not in the house where he can find it, and that it is fairly conclusive. Otherwise it's really easy for people to spin it. My wife only admitted her EA when I acted as if I had more evidence than I had; once she learned how little it had taken for me to put two and two together and gain an admission of guilt from her she was unhappy about her admission!

She was still wayward then. She's becoming more and more recovered every day.

Yes it is killing me that he thinks I am stupid. I even tried to convince myself thathe was right for a while. But, God tells us to trust ourselves and I am an intelligent woman. Also, I am still so hurt because of the entire thing. Not entirely surprised because it has happened before, but so hurt.

I agree. Another issue, since I walked out and then came back, he's been soosuper nice. My family says that its a tactic too to try and hide from dealing with the truth again. I mean he is giving me and the kids all kinds of attention. Yeah its great, but it doesn't resolve any of what happened does it?

If he is a serial cheater then leave his a$$...DUDE

Yup, I love the turning around of the mistrust onto you. As if you have some big annoying problem for not trusting them. Grrrrr. I hacked into his email account and found all the emails. He sent her packages, money orders, had phone sex, talked and texted 1'000's of times, online chats. All this and he still thinks it wasn't an affair. I'm an idiot. What am I DOING with this guy? Oh, did I mention I was pregnant when I found out? Yup, real swell.

Its pretty darn conclusive and I have it at other locations to protect it since he has tried so hard to get it. I wound up telling him a lot of what I had but not all. So that's why he's trying to hard to figure it out. At least I think that's why. I think he wants to be able to prepare answers to what I have. What do you think? And yep he was FURIOUS! It was amazing how mad he was. He kept saying "I refuse to wear the cheater coat in this, the marriage has gone sour because YOU don't trust me". And I told him I didn't because of what he brought into my house.
sigh

GOSH Jenn. My kiddos are teenagers and we all knew what he was doing! YES EVEN THE KIDS KNEW! They didn't have the evidence I did because I had to snoop. But they knew something was up because of his behavior and they caught him talking to her. I ask myself the same thing. Then when they have answers for EVERYTHING we get all mushy WANTING to believe one way!

So true DeeDee. I too have gotten the "I will not be portrayed as the guy who cheated on his pregnant wife" line. I think the pregnancy added such an emotional and hormonal aspect to everything that I now hold resentment for. I was losing weight. yes, dropping weight and barely eating at 5 months pregnant. I had been horribly sick with morning sickness when this all happened and was barely functioning. I ended up with gestational diabetes, and I think a large part was due to stress hormones messing with my body. I overall gained 2 pounds in the pregnancy. I didn't bond with my baby when he was inside and I can never get that special time back. Now that he is here, I realize he came for a reason. He is truly my Joy and heart and is sometimes the only thing that keeps me happy and sane.
God bless his gummy smiles

Add my husband to the list of not wanting to define the EA as an "affair". Oh and after Dday when he went through all the proper remorseful behavior and had decided some months down the road that I'd had enough time to get over it (how come HE gets to decide that?), he once said to me "it could have been worse".

Look, you won't get a remorseful reaction from a wayward spouse. Typically, you won't get one even from a contrite spouse. They will be sorry their actions "hurt you", but in their hearts they think they didn't do anything wrong. They think the circumstance hurt you, and they are sorry they were the agent of it.

It's a fact of life. People don't want to believe themselves bad people. If I understand correctly, true contrition typically comes -- if it ever does -- months or years after the affair is over. You're not going to get it now, and any admission of remorse is only going to be in the face of OVERWHELMING evidence or if they suspect you know everything and they have nothing further to gain by lying.

So here's a thought: your husband (both Jenn & Deedee) are both very much in an Intimacy phase right now... or at least acting like it. Why not take advantage of that to obtain an agreement of no-contact-for-life with the other woman, a written letter from him to that effect which you approve & send, and agreement to additional extraordinary precautions to make sure that nothing further occurs with the other woman? At the very least, what he has done has hurt you. Don't get bogged down in the argument of whether it was an affair or not; the evidence you have is enough to show that his heart was wayward, and this hurt you deeply. As an act of good faith, at the very least he can put this other woman out of your life forever so that you can create a better marriage together without this destructive influence.

It's probably a long shot, but if you set that expectation that this is what you expect now, it makes the eventual Plan B letter (if necessary) just another reiteration of the same conditions you've outlined before.

Careful there, Barnboy. I tried to use this standard for defining infidelity on my old (vaporized) thread and was torched for it by many.

My wife a had secret and highly inappropriate email reunion for four days with an ex-lover, using deception to hide it from me. When confronted she told me it was none of my business, that she would talk to whoever she wanted to for as long as she wanted. She did agree to end it when I would not accept no for an answer.

To this day, even after an MB weekend and Steve Harley telling her in person how inappropriate her actions were, she still considers it an "answer to prayer" and refers to it as an "opportunity" and will admit to ZERO level of infidelity.

I am told by some that I am making a mountain out of a molehill.

There are some here on this board who think that if your spouse did not have sex or in their view have a "real" affair, you don't even qualify to be here discussing your situation. In fact, they will tell you that your spouse was not unfaithful AT ALL, that you are suffering from "delusions" and that your unfaithful spouse should Plan B YOU!

Apparently there is a hierarchy of affairs among some on this forum who suffered worse infidelity than you, in which they have the authority to rank the levels of unfaithfulness among the various stories and deem you unworthy.

I agree with Lexxy, I would insist on a polygraph since he is denying it and gaslighting you.

I would just become a broken record...saying that you already know the truth, but that the two of you won't be able to move forward until he starts being 100% honest.

Don't engage him when he tries to get more details from you. Walk away.

I probably shouldn't be reading your thread right now because it is too reminiscent of what I discovered almost a year ago. My discovery came in three stages over a two-week period: a lie exposed, EA (where there's smoke, there's fire), and the PA. He lied at every stage until I left him no way out. Trust your instincts.