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Please tell the original poster that this is what you believe, if you want to, but please do not take it upon yourself to tell him that your view is what other posters really meant. You have mischaracterised what I said and I object to that. If anything I have said is not clear then I wold be happy to explain it IN MY OWN WORDS. Agree. Perfectly said, as usual. Whatever, please see the moodiness thread as it may have relevance...DUDE
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"Whatever"? Dude, that is what my 13 year old son and his friends say when they have lost an argument!
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Please tell the original poster that this is what you believe, if you want to, but please do not take it upon yourself to tell him that your view is what other posters really meant. You have mischaracterised what I said and I object to that. If anything I have said is not clear then I wold be happy to explain it IN MY OWN WORDS. Agree. Perfectly said, as usual. Agreed. Apart from the spelling mistake.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Remind me how exactly did people become married before there were written laws and documentation put into place record marriages. How did slaves marry without permission from there slave driver owners who would document it.
Verbal commitment between 2 parties.
Maybe this was a case where one partner made the verbal commitment thinking the other was on board as well.
And before you all barrage me with the facts. There are still regions in the world where people marry without pieces of paper or laws binding them. In truth the relationship is bound by respect for one another, honor for family, and hard work towards being a successful family. Each person brings something to the table to equally provide in the relationship.
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And before you all barrage me with the facts. There are still regions in the world where people marry without pieces of paper or laws binding them. In truth the relationship is bound by respect for one another, honor for family, and hard work towards being a successful family. Each person brings something to the table to equally provide in the relationship. Unfortunately, the facts don't support your assertion that living together and marriage are the same. Living together is a month to month renters agreeement, very different from a buyer agreement. They are very different animals. There is a higher than 85% divorce rate in marriages that began shacking up. Most domestic violence occurs in live together situations and in marriages that began by living together. Dr. Harley was interviewed on NPR about a year ago with the publisher of Bride Magazine, who was pushing the notion that couples should live together before marriage. Dr. Harley cited study after study showing it led to domestic assualt for a high percentage of couples and rarely ever led to a happy marriage. The publisher of Bride could not support her position and had no studies supporting her stance. Many experts refer to it as "the curse of living together before marriage." So, you can pretend it is all the same, but that reflects an ignorance about what committment means. That would be like me going down to the car lot and making a "verbal committment" to the 98' Red Camaro but never signing any papers and never paying the dealer. Am I committed or am I talking crap? I can call myself "committed" but that still leaves the red Camaro wide open to the first buyer who shows up with the money. As they say in Texas, money talks and BS walks.  In nexus's case, his failure to make a real committment, left his GF available for someone else to make a REAL committment to her. She was not married and was perfectly free to marry this man. He is now her H and nexus is just a former boyfriend.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Honestly not everyone in the world is a member of the same religion or beliefs. Visit other countries that are in the middle of no where. That don't have a local government or registar. They make a verbal commitent to each other and it works a whole heck of a lot better than it does in the more technilogically advanced and organized regions of the world.
There are men and women of tribes who have been "married" for MANY years and have an equal partnership in there marriage. Honor, loyalty, and respect. Something alot of the world has forgotten.
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SIHW, but that is all irrelevant. Facts are facts. Your beliefs will not change facts. Marriages that began living together have an 85% divorce rate and the highest rate of domestic violence.
Making a "verbal committment" is meaningless. Try buying a car or a house making a "verbal committment." Talk is cheap, and that is evidenced by the exorbitant amount of marriages that fail that began living together.
Seems sort of irresponsible of you to recommend something here with such a high failure rate. What could possibly motivate you to recommend such a losing proposition to others?
Do you live together yourself? Is that why you would recommend such a losing strategy to others?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Irrelevant....
really so other cultures have differnt beliefs. and That makes them not married because they don't have a church or state that makes marriage law?
How did your ancestors deal with this before written law and organization?
Your talking about YOUR facts. I am disscussing the facts that are relevant to other people in other countries around the world. People who don't live as we do here.
ok we are talking Scenerios.
A member of an amazonian tribe leaves the tribe on a journey to get medicine for a sick villager. A woman accompanies him. He and this woman according to the customs of the tribe made a verbal commitment to each other. She is considered his "wife" by this custom.
While in the city his "wife" becomes enamored by the city and chooses to leave him. So by your consideration she was never really his wife (a free agent) then because they were not married in a church or by a justice of the peace?
I have not recommended anything regarding people liveing together and I am not telling you that you are wrong. that is YOUR beliefs I am saying before we label that marriage is ONLY this way you need to consider the differences people have in religion and customs. Just because we don't understand anothers culture does not mean their traditions and customs are wrong.
My marriage is not the basis of this discussion....please don't try to redirect it that way.
Last edited by SIHW; 11/09/09 11:52 PM.
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SIHW, but none of these rationalizations address FACTS about our culture so it is irrelevant. There is an 85% divorce rate in marriages where the couple lived together first.
All of this sounds very much like the kind of rationalizations I would expect from someone who engages in risky behavior herself.
Which begs the question: do you live together yourself? Are you in such a situation?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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SIHW, I noticed a few minutes ago that your signature did not say
ME:31
DS:6
H:29
but said this:
ME:31
DS:6
F:29
Why the quick change? And what does the "F" stand for?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Wow....i would appreciate it if you would back off from the manipulative insunations to attack my character.
They really are juvenile.
Avoidance of a relevant question is what I am seeing.
What if this man came to this country looking for his "wife". what if he came here?
Would you tell him he was never married just because his tribes custom and culture is different from ours?
It's a simple answer.
Since you seem to want to intrude on my private life instead of answering the question at hand. I LIVE WITH MY HUSBAND! Thank you.
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SIHW, I noticed a few minutes ago that your signature did not say
ME:31
DS:6
H:29
but said this:
ME:31
DS:6
F:29
Why the quick change? And what does the "F" stand for? Before: ME:30 DS:5 F:28 After: ME:31 DS:6 H:29 Haha funny.....maybe next time you copy something you will copy it BEFORE I update it instead of editing it manually.... if you had done it right you would have noticed the ages were old as well. I apologize that I don't update things on a regular basis to keep you informed of the happenings in my life.
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SIHW, why did you change your signature so suddenly?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Because you made me notice I had not changed it in quite some time...though maybe I should update it.....is that a problem with you?
Why are you sooooo interested suddenly in ME? I have also noticed we have moved now away from the ORIGINAL topic.
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ooooooookay...... Moving on from the avoidance tap dance...  For those who want to read Dr Harley's opinion on living together, which is backed up by facts and evidence, it is located here: excerpt from Living Together Before MarriageThe number of unmarried couples living together has increased dramatically over the past few decades, and I expect that it will continue to increase. The rationale is simple: "By living together before marriage, we'll know how compatible we are." Presumably, if a couple can get along living in the same apartment before marriage, they will be able to get along with each other after marriage.
It's a tempting argument. After all, a date tends to be artificial. Each person is "up" for the occasion, and they make an effort to have a good time together. But marriage is quite different from dating. In marriage, couples are together when they're "down," too. Wouldn't it make sense for a couple to live together for a while, just to see how they react to each other's "down" times? If they discover that they can't adjust when they live together, they don't have to go through the hassle of a divorce. Besides, isn't it easier to adjust when you don't feel trapped by marriage?
The problem with those arguments is that marriage changes everything. If couples that live together think that after marriage everything will be the same, they don't understand what marriage does to a couple, both positively and negatively.
In my experience and in reports I've read, the chances of a divorce after living together are huge, much higher than for couples who have not lived together prior to marriage. If living together were a test of marital compatibility, the statistics should show opposite results -- couples living together should have stronger marriages. But they don't. They have weaker marriages.
To understand why this is the case, I suggest that you consider why couples who live together don't marry. Ask yourself that very question. Why did you choose to live with your boyfriend instead of marrying him?
The answer is that you were not ready to make that commitment to him yet. First, you wanted to see if you still loved him after you cooked meals together, cleaned the apartment together and slept together. In other words, you wanted to see what married life would be like without the commitment of marriage.
But what you don't seem to realize is that you will never know what married life is like unless you're married. The commitment of marriage adds a dimension to your relationship that puts everything on its ear. Right now, you are testing each other to see if you are compatible. If either of you slips up, the test is over, and you are out the door. Marriage doesn't work that way. Slip-ups don't end the marriage, they just end the love you have for each other.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Well....so I take it Marriage builders has no answer for people of different customs and cultures who come here regarding the relevance of there union based on there traditions?
The question remains...would Marriage builders be able to offer them help?
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Well....so I take it Marriage builders has no answer for people of different customs and cultures who come here regarding the relevance of there union based on there traditions?
The question remains...would Marriage builders be able to offer them help? SIHW, but I thought you said they have happy, wonderful shack ups in other cultures? So what would they be seeking help FOR? Your question makes no sense.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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What is the divorce rate in the Amazonian jungle, hun? 
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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You are very caught up on the 'other culture' concept pertaining to your relationship.
In another culture, they would be married if they followed that cultures traditional commitment to do so.
If you are in a culture and do not follow the traditional formula of a couple truly committing, but create your own commitment procedure......you are not 'married' but you are committed until you are not.
I am sorry you are hurting so much from the dissolving of the committment you had with your mate and she re-mated with someone else.
It really is sad.
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haha...good one.
I was discussing the scenerio...you must have missed it. Like I tell my son...it's important to pay attention and you won't miss anything.
Here I will post it for you again so you can catch up:
"A member of an amazonian tribe leaves the tribe on a journey to get medicine for a sick villager. A woman accompanies him. He and this woman according to the customs of the tribe made a verbal commitment to each other. She is considered his "wife" by this custom.
While in the city his "wife" becomes enamored by the city and chooses to leave him. So by your consideration she was never really his wife (a free agent) then because they were not married in a church or by a justice of the peace?"
"Would you tell him he was never married just because his tribes custom and culture is different from ours? "
"The question remains...would Marriage builders be able to offer them help?"
Now remember this is just a scenerio....It's not real. It's like a test question someone would ask to see if this program might help them. So they would be able to know if possibly people from other cultures can gain the knowledge and insight to help there "marriages".
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