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"6yearsleft: Wow. I have no idea where you might have gotten the impression that I would be proud of causing my H pain. Nothing could be further from the truth. If I could take back any of the pain that I caused my H, I would do so in a heartbeat, but I cannot."

I am against abortion. Not against your decision to keep the OC. Though with you willing to take some things back I will ask. Would you if you could undo the pregnancy. Turn back the clock. Used protection.

Would you?

Would your BH?

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ID - another reason for telling your children what's going on with their mother is that you will never have an opportunity to prevent their bonding with OM like you do now.

He is the destroyer of their eternal family and their home. They deserve to know before your WW finagles him into your place in the family. Because you have to know the nut case you are married to has that in her plans!


Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1

The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"?

The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!"

If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
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Originally Posted by indarkness
BTW, my lawyer has advised me to limit what I tell the children. He says the courts frown on telling the kids too much. They wants stability for the kids to be the highest priority.

ID, it is in the best interest of your children to be told the full truth. Your attorney does not care about the welfare of your children, only in reaching an AMICABLE legal settlement with as little fuss as possible. If you don't tell your children the truth, you leave them wide open for your WW to tell them her SPIN which will lead to years of moral confusion. Your kids can deal with the truth as long as they have a sane parent who is giving them moral guidance.

Dr. Harley made this post earlier this week:

Quote
My position on many aspects of marital therapy has been admittedly controversial when first expressed. His Needs, Her Needs was ripped by many therapists in 1986 when it was first published because they didn't believe that men and women's emotional needs were different. Today, there are very few that believe that anymore.

My position on conflict management (Policy of Joint Agreement) was also roundly criticized by some feminists as giving away women's right to independence. Of course, most of these critics were not in favor of marriage in the first place. But today, the idea of finding mutually adventageous solutions to problems in marriage is main-stream.

And, my position on radical honesty and transparency in marriage, which was definitely not in the tool box of most counselors when I first brought it up, is now becoming much more accepted by therapists working in the trenches.

At first, whenever I came up with a new idea, I'd try it out on the couples I counseled. My goal was always to "do no harm" in my effort to help. I was very concerned about unintended consequences. But as I created methods that were logical outcomes of my basic theory, I found that these methods worked amazingly well every time they were implemented. That's why I can speak with such confidence today. I've personally witnessed thousands of successful outcomes when couples learn to meet each other's emotional needs, learn to make decisions with mutual enthusiastic agreement, and learn to be radically honest with each other.

The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.

An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults.

Best wishes,
Dr. Harley
here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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The Road: I would be more than happy to answer your question if you take it to my thread over in the Pregnancy/Child forum.

I think Dr. Harley's post earlier this week was amazing and very timely in your case, InD. The kids do need to know the truth. If your WW does leave when she is served the papers, the kids are obviously going to know that something is up, if they don't already, which I find difficult to believe. You don't want them thinking that her leaving has anything to do with them. Your 8 y/o DD is old enough to know the truth. Even your 5 y/o is going to have to be told some very simple version of what is going on. Certainly they are going to notice their mother's absence. It's better that they know what is really going on rather than be left to their own imaginations.


Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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WW was served last night. She has no intention of leaving the house. The more I considered fallout, the less sure I felt of her leaving, so this was not unexpected.

WW is angry because I did this without telling her. Well, she's angry about a lot of things. She was thrashing around last night and doing so again this morning. Lot's of accusations, criticisms, etc. I mostly try to keep my mouth shut.

Moving forward on all of this is just going to be painful. WW is adamant about getting the kids. I think she's going to put up a fight or at least try to. She still hasn't talked to a lawyer. She needs to fill out her side of the paperwork and submit. I guess that's the first step forward.

I kept pressing her last night about what her plans were for her and the OM. She says OM has not committed to her yet and is going to Vegas for 60 days to figure it out. I asked about contact and she said he wants to do NC for this time period. It won't happen. But with nowhere for WW to go I'm stuck. I can't kick her out and I'm not going to leave. She's such a cake eater...

At this point, I've lost almost all interest in trying to recover my marriage. WW has made nasty accusations, has shown zero concern about the affect of the affair on my children or me and is exhibiting behavior that I doubt I can get past.

It kills me to think about the effect of D on my kids. I just want to wrap my arms around them and never let them go. But I know that won't happen. I know I'm going to lose them for at least sometime. That's just a devastating thought.





BH - age 33
WW - age 33, pregnant w/OC, due Jun. 2010
M - 12 yrs
DS x3 (12, 6, 2)
DD x1 (8)
D-day 9-9-09
Plan D - Divorce Papers served 11-12-09
WW moved in w/OM 1-30-10 (DS12 Bday)
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Yup.
Waywards are total peckerheads.
Your wife is no exception.
Sad that she sits around not working all day and you have to pay her way. Too bad you can't make that any tougher.
You know she's going to spin the D to your kids, right?
It's going to be all your fault. You PUSHED her into OM's arms. She loved you and loved the M. It's all you, especially since you haven't gotten to the kids first to spin it properly.
Have you all explained to the kids about mommy's baby yet?
Kids don't understand gestation, so it's easy enough for WW to say she HAD to run into the arms of OM because you filed for D. And when two people love each other a baby is made, etc. etc.


Me:BW, FWH 1DD 1DS
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I'm really sorry, InD. I'm not terribly surprised that she doesn't intend to leave the home, but I am sorry.

Keeping your mouth shut seems like a good idea right now. You don't want to give her anymore ammunition. Of course, she's going to be angry. Just let her fume.

I would suggest putting a lot of pressure on OM right now. The fact that the OM is not committing to this relationship with your WW is very good. Make doing so as unpleasant for him as humanly possible. Do everything you can to make him stick to that NC while he is gone. The longer your WW goes NC with the OM, the more chances there will be for the fog to start to clear.

Here's a question for those with experience. Usually, when one reaches the point where the BS is losing all desire to recover the M, Plan B is recommended. Plan B seems in order for InD. But how do you do that when there are kids involved and the WS refuses to leave the home?


Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Just an FYI: I think most people know but I'm in CA and the *minimum* time between filing for D and D being finalized is 6 months.


BH - age 33
WW - age 33, pregnant w/OC, due Jun. 2010
M - 12 yrs
DS x3 (12, 6, 2)
DD x1 (8)
D-day 9-9-09
Plan D - Divorce Papers served 11-12-09
WW moved in w/OM 1-30-10 (DS12 Bday)
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Food for thought if you PLAN B while in the same household Could that be looked at as justifications to why the wayward wants out?

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InD, whatever YOU do, DO NOT leave your home. You probably know this, but I just wanted to remind you.

Your wife is reacting as expected. Of course she's mad, you just yanked her cake away. NOW she REALLY has to put her money where her mouth is.

Get to those babies first, as soon as you can. It is CRITICAL that they hear the truth from you.


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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I don't think you Plan B living in the same house. It just wouldn't work. Plus he served her D papers already.

And protect yourself. She can easily file a protecton order against you and get you tossed. Some waywards really suck. Be careful.


What we think or what we know or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence. The only consequence is what we do. ~ John Ruskin
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IND also dont let your wife take the kids out of town for any reason without you being there not even to see family,because she does nt have to return. Do not leave your home.

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CN, yeah, I'm trying to keep things as cool as possible. She's already accusing me of being physically abusive. But then she's taking off for the night to go see OM!!!! So if I'm so abusive, why is she so willing to leave the kids with me and head out on a fling??? The woman is insane, completely and totally.

I just want to calmly get her out of the house and on her own or with OM. I don't care at this point, just so long as she is gone.

Someone talked about recording conversations, I think it's time I find something like that.


BH - age 33
WW - age 33, pregnant w/OC, due Jun. 2010
M - 12 yrs
DS x3 (12, 6, 2)
DD x1 (8)
D-day 9-9-09
Plan D - Divorce Papers served 11-12-09
WW moved in w/OM 1-30-10 (DS12 Bday)
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Darkness,

Please be sure to call your lawyer back with an update. I really think you need to protect yourself and your custody in any way. Is there anything you can do to codify the current situation? Also document everything, maybe daily emails to your lawyer or a journal. Maybe your WW should go to Vegas to stay with the OM. I'm sure that would not look good in a custody battle.



Me 42 BS
Wife 41 FWW (exwife now)
Divorced 10/14/2008
S 21
D 18
D 16
S, S 13 (twins)
Grandson 8 months
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>So if I'm so abusive, why is she so willing to leave the kids with me and head out on a fling???

Document it all.

My husband carries a pocket recorder in his shirt pocket at work. He got it at RadioShack.


I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?

O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten.

My Story

Recovered!
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Target has little voice activated digital recorders in the electronics dept.

They are very inexpensive and useful in general (for all kinds of things....recording notes to yourself, the kids being silly, conversations, etc)

They are small and easy to use.







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Here's a watch a mentioned earlier.

http://www.chinavasion.com/product_...steel-mp4-player-watch-18-inch-screen-2/

I just googled MP3 watch to find it so there are many choices out there. I believe this might be the least intrusive and/or the least obnoxious seeming way to happen to have a recording device available to utilize at the right(really wrong) moment.

When I say "least intrusive/least obnoxious" I'm referring to any person in the court that ever hears such recording. A father fighting for custody is always up against the wall when it comes to perceptions. Sometimes these "father's rights" websites lead well-intended fathers right down the path of APPEARING litigious and down-right nasty. Judges base there decisions way more upon initial impressions than the actual law. If a father storms into court demanding HIS RIGHTS...he loses, despite the law or the validity of his underlying arguments. If you APPEAR mean and vindictive...you lose. It's that simple sometimes.

Thus, even the perception that you've been running around like an apparent idiot pulling a tape recorder out of your pocket all the time taping conversations MAY backfire on you. Which is why I like the MP3 watch idea. The recorder JUST HAPPENS TO BE HANDY...instead of premeditated.

Finally, feel free to email me at my email below. I've got some e-documents I can share with you.

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Tell your lawyer that your wife is claiming that you are abusive. Ask for advice about what you can do to protect yourself. I'm sure they see this stuff a lot. The watch is a grand idea.

My wife has an app. for her i-phone that records voice. Perhaps that could work for you too.


What we think or what we know or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence. The only consequence is what we do. ~ John Ruskin
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Quote
The recorder JUST HAPPENS TO BE HANDY...instead of premeditated.


Excellent idea Mr. W.


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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Originally Posted by 6yearsleft
Maybe your WW should go to Vegas to stay with the OM.


Oh sweet, heavenly bliss. That would be wonderful. I actually suggested it this morning and she said "what! leave the kids alone with you for that long? yeah, right." But, what was funny is that there was a brief pause, as if she was actually considering it.


BH - age 33
WW - age 33, pregnant w/OC, due Jun. 2010
M - 12 yrs
DS x3 (12, 6, 2)
DD x1 (8)
D-day 9-9-09
Plan D - Divorce Papers served 11-12-09
WW moved in w/OM 1-30-10 (DS12 Bday)
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