Another thought...sometimes pieces of paper make all the difference. Try claiming ownership of a piece of property without a properly executed deed filed with the county. You may have "rented" it for YEARS, treated it as your own, told people you owned it, fixed it up, replaced the roof, repaired the foundation, built extensions upon it, etc., however, in the end you are just a renter absent that little piece of paper (deed). It doesn't mean you don't or can't care about the "property" and be hurt when you get removed from the "property". It's just a legal fact that sometimes/often makes all the difference.

As far as MB principles working in non-marital situations, I think they'll work and may likely be more successful than many other plans out there, however, they won't be as successful as when used by married couple (common law or otherwise) considering the parties involved and the lack of PRIOR LEGAL commitment.

The weiner-davis 180 plans may work as well and the advice therein to start dating others (in an attempt to seemingly be moving on and attract back the gone astray partner) isn't inter-woven with adultery issues as when an actually married BS considers or tries to implement it.

Perhaps Dr. Harley's letter "Living together before marriage" in the Q & A section of the website kinda covers how to and what happens when implementing MB stuff in "living together" scenarios (discouragingly offering the plans to such couples but offering them nonetheless).

LIVING TOGETHER BEFORE MARRIAGE

Mr. Wondering

What I am asking is if the piece of paper mightve been more important TO HER than Nexus thought it was.

I, obviously, can't answer that (and wasn't trying to), however, I can guess that it probably WASN'T until she met someone else. Wouldn't that be the typical wayward girlfriend history rewrite?

W

I know MrDubya. I was directing the ? at Nexus hoping he'll come on and clarify...but you are entirely correct. It prolly IS moot considering a waynerd's capacity for fiction.

I'm guessing the piece of paper may have been important at some level for her, as is always the case in these situations I wasn't paying attention to her EN very well. However I'll bet Dealan-de is right that it became way more important after she left. Of course with her "marriage" to the OM they don't seem to have filed the papers so I guess you can draw some sort of conclusion from that.

Anyway, Plan B letter sent (via email unfortunately since I don't have her complete address). Thinking back I was probably way to easy on her during Plan A, mostly because one of the stated reasons she gave for leaving was that I was too controling. I think being more aggressive against OM and pointing out to WW how wrong what she is doing is is probably more effective.

I can't decide if Plan B has a chance with her. On one hand without me the "perpetrator" as a focus between them they will probably just turn their own victim thinking against each other pretty soon. However on the other hand she may stay mired in resentment for years. She has the ability to focus on being wronged for a long time.

If Plan B does work it can't be unconditional, she has to address the victim mentality that lead to this and has been a drag on our life.

Friends are already trying to set me up on dates, which is flattering, but I'm not sure how to proceed on that yet? Hey I'm not married right ... ha, ha ... uggg.

> I'm not sure how to proceed on that yet

Personally, I think you need time to process and heal and decide what your lifes goals should be.

>victim mentality

From experience, some people can only live with themselves and their choices if they stay immersed in this way of thinking.

For what it's worth, my then-boyfriend did not "put a ring on it" for quite some time, and eventually I decided to "have an affair." Yes, at the time, we were living together, joint accounts, traveling everywhere together, family holidays, etc.
We dated for eight years.
At some point, the love banks were depleted and we didn't notice and I decided to "divorce" him and start up with another guy.
Soon after, I decided that wasn't the route I wanted to take and me and the boyfriend reconciled.
We've been married 15 years. Although not all of them have been good ones.
Just sayin' that people can recover from situations like yours.

Hi imanotherone,

That sounds really positive! I would love to read your story. I'm guessing that I could by following the link in your signature but unfortunately it no longer works.

Could you check it please? Thanks.

TM

Hi TM,
Yeah, the link got busted after the crash. I'll have to get onto it. I'm certainly no poster child for recovery, but due to our own stubbornness we're still together. I guess the good side is that:
1. H doesn't drink, doesn't beat me, doesn't do illegal drugs.
2. H loves our children infinitely and is a very involved father.
3. H is gainfully employed.
4. H spends a lot of time working on the house.
5. H rarely raises his voice, even during arguments.
So, all things considered, it could be a lot worse.
Sorry for the T/J.

Thanks for sharing this iamtheone. How long were you apart from the boyfriend now H? Did you live with the other guy?

NExus,

Plan B may work. But, remember her ending the affair does not mean your relationship will work. Do Harley's ideas work in relationships as well as marriages. I would think so, which is why I thought the discussion had turned silly.

Kimmy, is correct that the lack of "that piece of paper" might have been the deal breaker for her. We don't know, and apparently neither do you. However, at some point you might find out. I would guess that it had something to do with things because she announced she had "married" the OM immediately and whether she did or did not my guess is that she made that announcement to hurt YOU. This suggests marriage was in her mind in one way or another.

I agree you should not go out, until you have sorted out a few things. YOu can certainly do so as you are not married and will not be participating in a divorce. But, you need to get yourself squared away or all these dates will be is them acting like your counselor and consoler. Neither are really good things for them, and actually not that good for you yet.

By the same token, you need to be talking to someone about this. A good counselor is a possibility.

I cannot help but think however, that you have "lucked" out, although I appreciate that you don't feel this way right now. Her behavior and what you have said does not indicate that she should be high on anyones list for a partner. She won't be unless she changes somethings.

You have not stated this, but I must ask. You decided to live with her for 9 years and yet you felt no need to marry her. I wonder if you have subconsciously realized that she is not the right one but really did not want to address this issue.

Most folks, not all I understand, want a good thing to be permenant, you apparently took no steps to achieve this and neither did she. Look deep, and see if you can understand your view and approach to this and what motivated it. It will be very helpful to you in the future if you can figure this out.

JL

PS: Mr. W is correct I have not cheated or been cheated upon (that I know of) in my marriage. I was cheated on while engaged to another woman and that ended the engagement. Now was it cheating? IN my mind yes, because of the lies involved, but was it an affair? Not technically as we were not married.

Actually she hid her "marriage" from everyone including her own family for almost 2 months. I'm not sure how long she was planning to keep it secret. I found out from the OM when we blew up at me over a text message using her phone. Her sister later talked to her and confirmed some sort of 2am "ceremony" involving a friend as a "minister". She still hasn't told me she is "married", remember she just can't bare to talk to me.

Yes, the more distance I have the more I realize that without addressing her issues she's probably not a good partner. She's a real catch 22 because on one hand she's smart, cute, charming, athletic and creative (and really good in bed I must say ), but on the other she has real trouble taking responsibility for anything in her life. It's sad really since she could be so much more if she didn't think she was the victim all the time.

NExus,

You know what they say about potential in the sports arena don't you? Potential gets the coach fired.

Potential is discussed in adults almost always because they are underperforming. I find it odd that she is such a blame person if she is athletic. Most people who are, eventually must face that their success or lack of it is up to them and their God given talents and blaming someone else doesn't help.

Please think about my other comments as well. You need to understand your own thinking and desires as well.

JL

Thanks for the good advice JL. She's athletic in individual outdoor type sports where you really have no one to blame but yourself. It's hard to blame the laws of physics right. I think if she had to suffer real consequences in other parts of her life she might stop blaming others. I think a huge part of our relationship was me shielding her from the consequences of her outcomes, usually at great personal cost to me. One thing that changed is I started doing that less in the last year which is one reason I think she left.

She always manages to find a way to slide by though, so she may never learn even if she ends up on her own. The OM sounds like the same type, so I'm guessing he's not going to be good for shielding her for long. Who knows though they may just keep sliding by together.

Yup,

They may keep sliding together, but as you know the odds don't favor that. This needs to be a growth opportunity for her, let her grow and then see she turns into. It is your best chance at a good outcome.

God Bless,

JL

To everyone. THE PAPER. Does having the paper mean you wont be cheated on ,used, taken for finaical ruins, be able to claim what is theirs is mine and what is mine is theirs,live happily ever after and so on and on? NO. Does not havig they THE PAPER mean that all of or some of the negitive wont happen to you? NO. It still comes down to the morals of the person at the time of commitment and what has changed in the morals of the person when they cheat. Nexus I feel for you and i believe that MB principals will work even if not married to those who commit to them. HOWEVER your girlfriend is now MARRIED and you need to back away so you dont become the OM. You are better than that!!!!! Even if she did come back at this time with your interference THE PAPER or not having the paperand or commitment must not mean much to her either way. It still comes down to morals of the person!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nexus- I was not apart for very long--a week or so at the most. Although I did have a "false recovery" where I vascillated on my choice.
I'm pretty good at taking mental inventory, and the situation that looked so good at one time was not as awesome when more closely scruitinized. Plus, I was aware of the heady stuff that is a fresh love, new relationship. I knew that the heart flutter feeling was fleeting, and I had to think about where I wanted to be ten years from then, when the newness was a distant memory.
Lots of girls grow up thinking they'll find prince charming and live happily ever after. I knew that wasn't the case (at least for most of us).
So yeah, your girlfriend has to look around, see what was lost, what is being thrown away, and decide if the new relationship TRULY has the potential to be better.
BTW, I didn't even know it at the time, but I was EXTREMELY angry that we hadn't married sooner. I saw his lack of a proposal as a lack of respect and commitment, even though we shared so much. The legal part was important, at least subconsciously. Especially painful when we ever attended friends' weddings.

No, his ex-girlfriend is not married. She's dating a MM. She's an OW.

Page one third paragragh, whenI reread it it still tells me she is married to other man now!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So OM is a polygamist, OP is a stalker and wanting to be an OM.

And y'all thought I was screwed up.