Ok just read about 50 threads in the ideas forum and only a couple offer something potentially useful, will use these as at least ill be trying to help situation even if not quite right, but as stated twice above I do or have done just about all of the ideas??

Helpful for me as I dont feel so useless now, but doesnt help my M or W!!!

Right, have just returned home from work and im not going to lie, I've read my wifes thread....... im not going to make all the excuses under the sun or analyse it to much im just going to honestly post how im feeling.

As I've stated above the chat didnt go well after we both spoke with Steve and we decided to focus on LB filling to get W through to next Steve session. We agreed I would have 4 days, sunday through to wednesday (day of next session).

Sunday - my wife worked 6am-2pm and I worked 4pm-12am. During the morning while I was looking after 4 kids I sat down and tried to brain storm ideas. Once at work I had decided to do a text quiz about our past and future. I carefully worded each question to avoid A coming up in W answer. I messed up as I was working directly with Manager I couldnt text. Expected to have break so planned to do it then but manager had taken on big job and for us to leave ontime we worked through break. W was understandibly getting restless now. I started text quiz and first 4 questions went well. She appartently though this was a good idea. However it came the time to leave and so couldnt finish the quiz.

Monday - W worked 6am-2pm I was rota'd 4pm-1am. While W at work I planned ideas for Tuesday and Wednesday as she was off those 2 days and Im also off wednesday so needed bigger plans. I hadnt come up with anything for Monday but still had text quiz to finish so thought i'd be ok till Tuesday. W returned home and as we always do she wanted update. Told her I woke up late and therefore ran late with housework. Updated her on post/phonecalls etc... She asked if I had done anything regarding LB. I said that I had continued planning for tuesday/wednesday. She became very unhappy that she wasnt to recieve any form of effort today. The conversation got more and more heated. I was twitching as the aftermath of the A has already landed me a final written warning at work for absense so anymore and im jobless. We only have a 30min time inbetween her arriving home and me leaving. This had already run out. She got angry and threw my lunch I had prepared out the door into the front garden. Then she closed door and kicked clothes airer. I let her get on with it. She then threw my bluetooth headset and car keys across the room angryly, dont think she was aiming at me but was in my direction. I walked into the kitchen. She followed me screaming and kicked 2nd clothes airer twice. Throughout all this I hadnt retaliated in fact I was clearing up as she went. We both started screaming in the kitchen as she was telling me how much I had given OW. I was screaming that OW had chosen date venues, ordered food etc (im indecicive). She believed I had controlled A when I hadnt. I was getting very frustrated. She walked round the hallway and I followed, she took picture from wall and smashed it on floor in front of me. I watched. She picked up a 2nd picture and through that on floor but it didnt smash (1st one had) I ran forward as she was reaching for a third and grabbed her hand and pinned her against the wall by her throat. Im THOROUGHLY ASHAMED of this as I've NEVER EVER been physical before but I just couldnt see a way out. She was wrecking the whole house and I couldnt get my point across. I screamed stop being psychotic. She repeated it like she thought she was normal. Yes i said and walked off. She left to get cigarettes from shop and I sat down to calm down. She returned and sat down. I got on my knees and said I was sorry and that I loved her and didnt want to lose her. She told me she didnt want to carry on. I begged her to wait until we could speak to Steve next. She wasnt interested. She started to calm (emotionally drained) and told me that if I confronted OW at work and was horrible to her, that would buy me time until I got home and then MAYBE we could talk. I left for work over an hour late. Just returned home and W is asleep. I havent confronted OW as I dont want contact. Shes a disgusting creature and by talking to her over a year since last contact regarding A is going to give her HUGE importance. Shes going to feel good again. Them theres the s**t that will start at store level between her friends again. Plus facebook etc etc..... Not an option in my book.

Its now 3:30am and if she sticks to her guns in the morning we are over. I DONT want this. I do still love her, I do want to be with her. Over the last 10 years I havent been successful at trying to help M. Some ideas have been great but more often than not there are to insignificant. If I do try it normally lasts a few days until we both get swamped by everyday life.

I know trying on its own isnt enough, and im not claiming it is, but for 3 weeks now I have lived and breathed M. Ive watched one tv program, no time on pc and not done ANY other activity etc work, sleep and try. Again im not expecting rewards for just trying, espcecially when shes not even seeing results, but for me this is HUGE progress. But she is continuingly ramming A down my throat and expects me to be able to do everything she can. She finds it so EASY to come up with ideas of things I should have been doing, but it takes me time, and a lot of it, to do the same.

Im really at a loss here. I dont know what im going to wake up to tomorrow but after the school run im going to apologise for the physical attack as that was disgusting and unnacceptable. And see where we go from there.

Im going to try and sneak in bed beside her and enjoy cuddling up while shes defenseless........

Hopefully will get to update tomorrow, if not check her thread.

p.s. I do have an admiration issue due to v. low self esteem but I've been honest above and hope that comes across.

p.p.s. W and kids not in any danger I promise you, if it gets to much I'll walk out next time. Im not a physical person, never have been, in fact Ive also never EVER called her a bad name in a single argument in 10years either.

Do you think most of the frustration is because you still work with OW?

You did not have to grab her by the throat, you totally lost control, even though she was losing it, she really wasent tearing the whole house apart, I destroyed every bit of our wedding parapinial, the bride and groom glasses, flowers (they were silk) everything! I even pawned our wedding set, yes, we lose it, but that is not tearing up the whole house like you stated, it was a few pictures, had she of gotten a gas can and match then ok, but grabbing her by the throat was so not the answer.

I have not read her thread, so I can't comment on her feelings but I am sure there is alot of anger, and this kind of anger is so much frustration that she just can't get relief.

yllan-

I think part of what is going on can be explained by something I saw on "Dr. Phil" a while ago. He was interviewing a couple who were a few years past the WH's A and the H couldn't figure out why his BW couldn't "get over it." After all, the WH had ended the A, and he was home. But things weren't improving.

Dr. Phil told him "Your wife will never, EVER, get over it until she believes in her heart of hearts that you truly understand the pain you have caused her."

You see, you gave something that was very precious to your W away to someone else. You gave away her specialness. Along with it, you took away the security she had in your commitment to her. You traded her trust and faithfulness to you for an A. She doesn't feel safe or special in your love anymore.

It seems to me that you have given up some of your activities to show her that you are here for her, but this isn't what she needs to truly know that you understand the pain you have caused her.

So what if the OW was the one who planned the dates? You went on those dates while your BW was home taking care of your family. You took time from your BW to go out with someone else. So what if the OW was the one who "controlled" the A (as you put it)? You weren't forced to go. You volunteered.

That's the heart of it. It seems to me that your BW feels like she has to "pull teeth" to get you to be willing to be an enthusiastic participant with her, but you were okay doing it with OW.

Let me state that again-it seems to me that your BW FEELS like you were willing to do that for the OW, but not for her.

IMHO, That's what hurts her. You were willing to arrange your schedule to go out with OW and give her your time and your attention, and what you give your W is "I'm not watching TV or playing games on the PC". She doesn't believe that you truly understand the pain you caused her.

The "million dollar" question is then, are you willing to do whatever it takes to heal this pain you caused?

If you are, here's the million dollar answer: "whatever it takes" means whatever it takes. It's different for everyone.

For your W, it may mean breaking out of your comfort zone and doing things with her that you plan. It may mean showing her that you want to meet her needs in the way she needs them met.
It may mean being willing to hold her when she is crying even if it is uncomfortable for you. It may mean saying "I'm sorry I hurt you by betraying you" even if you have to say it a million times.

I hope this makes sense. I do think you and your W have a very good chance of recovering your M, but it will take a lot of work. I also think you are up to the challenge.

Hang in there-

First of all - Emo - STOP READING YOUR WIFE'S THREAD. This accountability needed to come because it was important for your personal recovery to disclose it, not because you needed to "explain" your side of the story. That just makes you look worse. Your wife needs to get feedback on what she has to work on without you. Harley counsels individuals in the marriage; you notice he gave you assignments and her assignments, and he didn't necessarily tell you what she's to work on. Because frankly, what she has to do is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. You have so much to handle just focusing on yourself. So stop reading her thread!!!!

And consider that it's beyond time to get that new job. Every day that you go back to the job you have with OW is killing your wife and your chances of recovery, no matter what else you do - the trigger is still there that makes your wife feel insecure. Right now, I think she'd rather eat glass and live homeless than have the work conditions continue.

So ask your friend/new manager for a letter of recommendation and assurance that he'll be a good reference for your work skills and get that resume out to this new opportunity and to every other opportunity you can find.

It's really tough for everyone right now; you are probably feeling like recovery is impossible. But my husband and I got through a domestic violence incident, and through a rage cycle. Granted, we lived apart for six months and I had to develop a mantra when my husband would unleash a litany of unreasonable demands on me to keep myself calm and let him discover what he needed to do to win me over rather than demand that I change. I worked on myself to be a better person, a better mother, and if the chance was given, a better wife.

The thing is, of your own volition, you are not coming up with the things YOU need to do to win your wife back. Minimal efforts will just enrage her because SHE sees that you invested much more than minimal efforts in OW. And her rage has to do with the fact that you may have always been a minimal effort guy with your wife; she never got the investment you gave this creepy woman you work with.

And it's what she sees and perceives that matters. Not what you remember.

So get your head down and get to work on what Steve has told you to do. And especially find some strategies to deescalate rage situations like you experienced the other night.

Remember, rage is a contagion that can be fatal. At least maritally fatal - if you catch it. Your wife has a lot of rage in her. I don't know how she's going to process it. But you have to find a way to inoculate yourself from catching it. Because you are the cause of it. You have to look at her rages from the view point of this is the harm you have done to her. You have destroyed her sense of person. And you have to find a way to have compassion for her without self-pity.

Get to work on a new job and don't rest until you have one. Stop reading her thread. Do what Steve told you to do, with thoroughness, no matter how exhausted you feel. Every step you take - head down, no matter what she says or does, don't be provoked from your path of loving service to her. It may take the six months it took my husband to win me back. It may take longer. But it can be done. Even after the damage of the other night.

hey thought i should put this WS post here as it can give WS chance to discuss his feelings with MBers on his own thread to cut out excuses of looking at my thread. hope this is appropriate thing to do I promise im not reading this thread i am just posting this here so its out of my thread. For those of you who dont know I am his BS.

1. Get another job.
2. Has your W taken the EN questionnaire and if so, what are her top 3 ENs?
3. Have you read Gary Chapman's "Love Languages" book and if so what is your W's love language?

Your totally right, I didnt have to react like that and we've both discussed the situation, I've told my wife that If I ever get to that point again I will not hestitate to leave the house temporarily to defuse the situation. We are both shocked as its not in our nature to react the way we did that night but at least by being aware of the potential threat we can ensure we put preventative measures in place.

Apparently even a change of colour scheme isnt enough to defeat my density lol, yes above post was me!......

She too definately indicates this as being the case. I have put effort into empathising as this isnt something im naturally able to do. Just doing that helped me to understand just a fraction of what she must have and still is feeling. I still feel I have more work to do here and and once done a full and whole hearted apology is needed.



Please dont misunderstand my comments. When I refered to not watching tv or going on pc I didnt mean it as if she owed me somthing just because im trying now, god no, she deserves effort as a bare minimum offering. I was merely stating that its been 3 weeks without a single break. Just sleep v. little, work hard and work on M. I am only human and although M will take a lot just to get into R let alone save M, a break once in a while for us to both chill back and just spend a single evening together watching tv etc... was also well needed



Again I dont deny my part in this, and I wasnt trying to demean what I had done. I was directly answering that fact that she believed I had planned everything for OW and she had just 'come along' which is what my wife wants me to do so badly. The fact is OW still had to plan outting and make decisions exactly the same as my W would have done. Anyway irrelevant to this its my turn to take over, man up and make my W happy....




I think im finally starting to understand her EN's now. Its not about what I di its about how I tailor it to be meaningful to her. (sorry if this sounds obvious to you reading this but for me its a breakthrough so be happy).

After the A and the revelation that I had told OW 'I loved her' <cringe> the fact that I had told her that meant nothing. On tuesday just gone, I took her out to where we first exchanged "I love you"'s, this place is very meaningful to us as not only was it the first i love you place but she also came to say goodbye to her loving H she felt she had lost when the alien H (me) took over.

I took her to the exact spot where we had stood, took her hands and looked into her eyes and said what I wanted to tell her, my heart to hers and she gave me a loving cuddle. The first in weeks if not longer. I hope im not overestimating her reaction, but please dont think im getting carried away either. It was a beautiful moment for me and she appeared to feel connected to me even if just for a few moments.

I took a risk taking her to somewhere with such meaning but now hopefully the positive image of that day has gone somewhat to replacing the negative image in her head of saying goodbye to me there.



Thanks for your kind words. I think we are both relieved I made a little progress but am aware thats only bought me a very short amount of time if I dont keep up the workrate.

Thanks again, I will be hoping you post again. You seem to have a very good understanding of where she is and this is vital to me to have contact with people who 'get her' just as important as it is for peolpe to advise me.





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Sorry for crashing your thread babe, but I wasnt happy with the way people on here turned on you. This should be a place for users to come and vent, seek/give advice etc...

Yes you wont be everyones cup of tea but your also not here to please everyone. I think because you are outspoken you are an easy target for being singled out, whereas myself being quiet wont be. However does this mean my behaviour is any better?? Im a WH, have made little to no effort for a year and have wished the A would just 'disappear'. But I go about my way quietly.

I would hope people can be understanding that due to the frustration, pain, anguish etc.. you are feeling, plus your natural honest personality this may make you appear a little blunt but you truly have a heart of gold and I love you for that. I have never met ANYONE so happy to offer advice to anyone you feel you can help.

I wont be reading your thread anymore and ill focus on mine, but just know babe, I've got your back..... Love you and the thought of our future together xx

I understand to an extent, I've stopped reading my wifes thread regardless and your right I do have more than enough to be thinking of, on my own for now.



Application filled out and on its way to posting right now. I now do understand the whole working with OW and the incredible insecurities this brings with it.




I dont think recovery is impossible but I am intimidated by the amount of constant work needed. We have a wretchedly busy life and some days there just isnt time or the opportunity to work on M.

Im not condoning the violence or belittling it in importance but my W and I have spoken about the incident and have put in place boundires to prevent it from EVER getting that bad again.



Spoke to Steve last night and have plan of how to taken last failed task plus new task and a bit of preplanning towards the final task. Was a good chat and I'll post details of the chat later when I have more time as now I need to finish planning this weeks agenda to settle my W anxiety.

ok so the Steve chat.

This was our second appointment, well 3rd technically as our first was a double. Anyway Steve spoke to my wife for the first 35mins and then myself for the last 35mins. He first asked how the first task (WHY) had gone. I described my failure but he said that after talking to my W he believes it wasnt as bad as I thought as my actions after till now had backed up what I had told her, therefore validating what I had understood and leant. Great news

Normally Steve coaching has four steps - WHY, WHAT, VALIDATION and PLAN.

He said we wont be doing WHAT as my W and I had already covered that in MUCH detail (too much). Although my W did communicate that she wanted me to think about it and use it as a last chance confession session if I needed to.

So the VALIDATION task was set. Validation is about understanding my W's injury. He used a series of analagies plus personal experiences to describe how she would have viewed the pain caused. He explained that just because I cant empathise with her pain as Ive never suffered emotional trauma myself wasnt the case.

He used an analagy of a doctor. A doctor doesnt need to have suffered every injury his patients have. He can reassure the patient by showing understanding of the pain being suffered in relationship to other injurys, understanding what happened, the method to treat the injury, expected time of recovery and what aftercare will be needed.

He explained that an A is worse than losing a child, war trauma, loss of possessions through fire/hurricane etc... and so on. This is due to the level of intimacy shared between spouses.

Also set preparation for fourth and final stage. Obviously not posting incase of wandering eyes lol

I would love to hear from Johnstwin and gloveoil at this point. I have a week off from work and really want to make it count with my W. She is very deserving and I have been making progress lately.

I would obviously welcome anyone to advise but have singled out about users as they have really seemed to understand my wifes position better than anyone. Their posts have been full of feeling and empathy.

I have learnt that pointless gestures carry no weight but that a heart felt adapted idea goes a long way.

After my last trip to our 'I love you' place, to re-iterate my stance and replace her negative views of this place from where she came by herself to say goodbye to her loving H having been taken over by an alien (me) seem to have been a success but im keen to follow up.

If you need any info to help with ideas im happy and very open to supply.

yllanoitomE,

Remind us again, what are your wife's top 5 ENs, and your top 5 ENs?

Hi, thanks for responding, sorry i've been at work and sleeping lol

right my W EN's are : 1) Affection 2) Conversation 3) Honesty & Openness 4) Sexual Fulfillment 5) Family Commitment

My EN's are : 1) Affection 2) Admiration 3) Honesty & Openness 4) Financial Support 5) Domestic Support

Hope this helps

Hi yllano-

I am so glad that you are using your time off to focus on your W and doing whatever you can to help recover your M.

I have a suggestion that comes from my twin brother, John. (Yep, I really am John's twin). He's a physics professor and a self-described "geek". He's very matter-of-fact and logical. It isn't natural for him to consider the emotional needs of others. Yet, he is very attentive to his wonderful wife. He once told me that he wanted to make her feel like the most beautiful woman in the world and he does. He does this by using his natural strengths as a scientist (observe, collect data, process the data, determine a theory from the data, etc) and he has become the absolute expert in studying and knowing his wife.

He has surprised her with week-end getaways where he arranged for her mom and dad to watch their kids so she wouldn't worry about the kids when they were gone. He has given her things that he knows SHE would like, such as unique tools for the kitchen (she loves to cook) and sewing stuff (she's also a whiz there). He takes her to Jazz Concerts (even though he is a classical and choral music guy).

When her dad had a stroke, he called my mom to come and stay with him and his school aged girls for a couple of weeks-even though he has a hard time having my mom around for extended periods of time. (My mom drives me nuts after a while too...) He did this so that his wife could be with her family and not feel like she had to rush back.

The key thing is, he does these things even though they aren't "natural" to him. He does them to show his W how much he loves her.

Your W wants to know that she is important to you as a woman and as your choice. You see, your A has made her feel like she is "second best" or even a consolation prize. When you take her places, like the first "I love you" spot, you are giving her your attention and your time. That helps her to feel safe again.

I hope this is helpful.

Hang in there-

He sounds like a wonderful man and one I can only hope my efforts will one day help to evolve into.

I just wish my life was simpler lol

Its just chaotic, I need to get better at making time to understand my wife. I dont want to rely on hope but the job I have applied for can go along way to helping as the hours plus the responsibility is alot more balanced.

Im not trying to hide behind excuses I could and should have made time to 'see' my W. Hence the time while im on work holiday. At least thats something out of the equation. Thats only leaves 4 kids, 2 dogs, 2 cats, 1 kitten, 8 puppies, 1 turtle, 26 fish, 2 hamsters, 2-4 school runs a day, washing of a family of 6, clothes washing of a family of 6, washing up etc etc etc...... :roflmao:

Now im only having a laugh but it does get ridiculously busy. My W says just prioritise..... yeah real simple lol just choose from above lol

Thanks for posting JT, I meant what I said about your posts have a real empathy and understanding I can follow

Right its almost 1am here, W is sound asleep but im trying to work on my empathy list.

Im having real issues with something and I know it makes my wife feel like c**p.

During my A I didnt feel any guilt!! I almost got caught a few times but was lucky - or so I thought at the time, although wish now she had caught me and woken me up before going as far as I did

Anyway despite the close calls and all the running around and being secretive etc.. I didnt feel guilt towards my family or my W.

Even after I slept with the OW for the first time, about 6 weeks into A, it didnt go well and I remember after I dropped her off at home, I thought how lucky I was that my W makes such an effort SF wise. Its disgusting, WTF was I thinking? why didnt I wake up, why didnt I feel guilt???

I want to move on but this is really hindering my progress and I know this is a big issue for my wife as well.

Just throwing it out to you all... feel free to land some 2x4's as I deserve it for this

Fresh problem!!

My W just phoned me from work on her break and she told me about a guy from work. Im aware of his admiration for my W, and she has made him and a lot of others at work aware of my A. My W and I regularly go into the store together with the kids.

This morning he asked for her phone number. Instead of putting him in his place she said that she "didnt think it would be a good idea". He then asked about some fields that she walks our dogs in as he likes running and she said "maybe I'll take you after work oneday".

Now fine I'll give her credit for telling me (a boundry) but to me shes just said you cant have my number but feel free to keep trying and Im happy to meet up with you after work without my H????

This might not seem alot to you on here but im going to make you aware of something I havent mentioned before as I wanted my W to recieve help after my A.

When we first met she was dating MK, but he was messing her about and she dumped him and preceeded to see me. We got very close, very fast. However she kept in contact with MK. Everytime we hit a hard patch or I wasnt meeting her EN's she would get MK round, usually while I was working full nights and the kids were inbed. She would always tell me as I think that was her way of controlling herself from going to far. This emotional blackmail continued for about 5 (five) years!! She admitted to kissing him a few times and almost slept with him a couple of times.

She said she kept him around as it made me try harder. I got pissed off and got rid of him, but she caled him back into our lives 3 months later. Eventually she found out he was married and having a huge amount of A's. So now shes totally rid of him and has been for a couple of years I think.

I can see this happening again with this guy from work and howver much in the wrong I am for A if she thinks she is emotionally blackmailing me again she is WRONG. She will get an ultimatum, NO c**p put OM firmly in his place or lose me.

You may think im harsh for this view but I suffered 5 years of going to work wondering what was happening, coming back early wondering what i'd find. Im not doing that again however selfish that makes me.

Only thing in her favour was that she always told me, there appeared to be no secrets. But this fitted in with the blackmail??

What do you guys think?? Am I being out of order here?? After my A so I have ANY right to feel this way or should I just accept it and suffer like I deserve??