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Think it would be more accurate to say 'Even if the WS ended the A voluntarily, there's often contact until the WS becomes convinced that further contact will result in termination of the relationship with the BS. At which point contact will cease, or the relationship with the BS will cease, or the BS will back down and allow contact to continue without penalty."

I go for strict scientific accuracy on these things.

TA

Except when there isn't

It's an interesting debate.

I don't have any fear either way about things. I don't like the way things are, but I don't agree with the assessment that nothing has changed. I don't agree that because I haven't done plan B, or plan D, that I have done nothing.

This is like listening to a sports talk radio show. One caller says nothing has changed with the team because they still haven't won a game. Another caller says that's not correct at all, the team has all new offenses/defenses and even though they keep losing the scores are getting closer and closer. One caller says ownership hasn't taken any action because they haven't fired the coach. Another says of course they have taken action, it's just different than what the public is crying for. One caller says all of this prooves the team likes losing. The other says all of this prooves the team is trying to win, but that it's easier said than done.

Anyway, as always, thanks for the support.

I know you have done some things. However, the only thing that has changed is some minor background scenary; the basic problem has never changed and here you are on your 4th or 5th false recovery. The affair continues and MT is as uncommitted to the marriage today as she was then. You are no closer to recovery today than you were in 2005. She still has a mindset that puts your marriage way behind her career and her affair. [as demonstrated by the posts of jepetwhatever]

Rprynne, why have you and MT never gone to a Marriage Builders in all this time? That seems to me to be your best hope for recovery, if that is possible. Have you considered that?

Did you read the newsletter titled When to Call it Quits?

And why would I or any sensible BS put up with contact? Why would I voluntarily take abuse upon myself? Why would ANYONE?

If contact persists, well, that is what Plan B is for.

The WS must learn that the BS is not their personal doormat.

Up until she moved back home, it wouldn't have been worth it. Once she moved back in, we were going to a local MC. In the last year, it hadn't seemed neccessary. Things appeared to be going well.

I have considered going and think my WW would be willing to go.

Why was it not necessary? MB is the best way, and besides--with no kids, you have no reason at all to put up with repeated abuse.

I think the next one is in January.

If you go you could turn it into a mini-vacation; a nice chance to fulfill some big ENs.

{{{{{{{{{{{[rprynne}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

While i can certainly agree that for me personally i could not stand continued contact with the OW. That would definitely be a deal breaker for me.

I however can say that i too deal with some "wayward tendencies" in my H. And maybe that is living "status quo" as Mel likes to put it.

However I still believe that my H has made changes. Has he made all of them i want him to, no?

I do not believe though that the ONLY way to get change is to Plan B or Plan D, and that it is up to each WS to decide if they are willing to live with their "status quo".

In a lot of cases fear may be a factor as 2long said but there are plenty of factors that go into making that choice for yourself.

And it is each WSs CHOICE as to what they want to live with or not live with. Sure MB gives you lots of tools to make things work better, however you can not make your spouse follow MB and only you can decide if that is good enough for YOU.

You can still use the MB tools to change yourself and how you deal with LBs and AOs and DJs and the WS usually changes too, maybe not as much as you would like and if there is absolutely NO change then that is a different story.

And there is nothing wrong with coming here and getting advice that you maybe can only apply to yourself to see if your change will change them. ANd it is up to the WS and ONLY the WS as to how long they would like to try that.

My life is not horrible, would i like better.... he77 yes..... am i willing to walk away from a 25 year relationship just to SEE if it would be better...... he77 no. I love my H and for now i am willing to live with my "status quo" because my "status quo" is not so bad .............

Well sure, SC, it absolutely is a personal choice as to what a BS will put up with...What isn't cool though is for someone who has endured years of continual contact to come alongside someone else and endorse that sort of thing for them ON Marriage Builders...It would be like a woman that had been being beaten by her husband for years dropping by the local women's shelter and advising others to return to their abusive husbands...Seems like a pretty cruel thing to do, imo...

Mrs. W

I do not think rprynne or 2long or myself are endorsing anything, nor do i believe anyone is giving advice to others to do the same.

I know me personally am simply stating that i understand rprynne's POV.

SC, I don't think rprynne is as happy with the status quo as you are. In fact, the thread is titled "Disappointed." Like you said, it is up to every person how they choose to live their lives. Some are perfectly content in bad marriages and that is cool. It is their life, after all.

Okay...Listen when people arrive here and say they are living together without being married, I UNDERSTAND that - Mr. W and I lived together for a year prior to marriage - We have learned from being on MB what a destructive thing that was to do - We would NEVER advise others to do the same thing...It was a BAD PLAN...Why in the world would we wish for others to follow in our footsteps where that was concerned? If we came alongside people here and said "we did it and it worked out in the end" that would sure seem like endorsement, wouldn't it?

Mrs. W

You know i don't know why i bother with the two of you.

My marriage is NOT bad. Only in your opinion!!!!

And i did not tell anyone that it worked out in the end and i am still here trying to learn.

And i did not say rprynne is happy with his current "status quo" or like you said he would not be here posting.

What i said is that the ONLY choice is not Plan B or Plan D and the CHOICE is rprynne's to make not ours and that i understand his POV should he choose not to go either of those routes.

Sorry for the t/j rprynne, i will leave it alone now, it is your thread.

You don't bother me at all, SC.

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>I think it's time for one of my long hiatuses

Have a lovely Thanksgiving 2Long!

(sorry about the TJ)