NO

Two wrongs dont make a right She is playing games and if not careful that will cause trouble you have enough problems without this kind of complication.

Thank you for your input, I didnt want to blow at her when she walks in so I thought id vent on here and see how you all feel then I can have a calm and calculated conversation based on the responses.

To your earlier question: You shifted your boundaries so that you wouldn't feel guilt; or if you did feel guilt at some level, then you compartmentalized it away, so it wouldn't stand in the way of the emotional satisfaction you were getting from the affair. Either way, what's vastly more important is, Do you feel guilt NOW? THAT's what's important. You say you felt no guilt during your A. Well, I did feel guilt (intermittently) during mine, but so what? I still went & did things I never should've done; my feelings of guilt, such as they were then, didn't really count for much. And anyways, we can't go back & fix any of the feelings or actions we felt or committed during our As, any more than we can turn back the hands of time. Rather, what counts for you is how you feel NOW, and how you let those feelings influence your present conduct.

Re: this new bit about your W. & this fellow from work, how did you come across this info? I'm presuming that she told you about the incident herself. It's hard for me to gauge from afar her motive in doing so; (a) does she think that she responded properly & wanted to share this with you by way of being open/honest? or (b) was this an attempt by her to make you feel some of the jealously/insecurity that she's been dealing with & continues to deal with to a certain extent since you still work with OW? Either way, if your account is accurate, she gets a yellow card for LBs. (And if it's (b), then the referee awards a penalty kick.) But the two of you should discuss it calmly & with empathy toward one another. You should ask her what her motive was in sharing this with you.

I haven't posted on here much, but I've been following along. Yll: Are you trying to say that your W was involved in a 5-year EA with an ex-boyfriend? That's certainly the way it sounds from reading your description of the relationship with MK. If that's the case, it makes me wonder why this not-so-little fact hasn't come up before in your thread or your W's thread.

That's a 5 year PA in my opinion - (kissing and nearly having full SF with the OM).

To me any sexual contact constitutes a PA.

Why did you tolerate such abuse for such a long time?







Didn't you think this information was pertinent to the story of your M?

So, your W had a 5 year A before you had your A? Where is her tremendous anger coming from? Pot/kettle?

I feel for you both but I really feel for your children. I hope SH can help with this mess.

For Steve to do that, of course, he has to be told about it. I take it he hasn't been so far.

I definately feel guilty now, so much so I hate it when shes nice or loving towards me. Trouble is my actions dont back up my words, but as yo uknow im trying, I really am to improve my actions, I dont know how long she can hang on in there though.



She has ALWAYS told me about everything as soon as it happened so I feel safe that her intentions were a). However I am scared it will contiue as she didnt put R (bloke at work) back in his place and I feel he will continue. I just hope that she sees and understands my conterns before I start to pull away from her after all my efforts (however fruitless)

NO IMHO which lets face it is the important one as its effects my future actions etc...

She didnt have 5 years EA. But I do feel she emotionally blackmailed me by keeping MK around. Always looking over my shoulder in a sense.

Thats why with R im scared, I dont believe for a second she is capable of having an A with him, but im scared she'll keep mentioning his antics knowing it will anger me and potently in her eyes I'll try harder. The difference this time is that I am actually trying opposed to MK situation. So this time I will be a lot less tolerant.

I purposely didnt mention this situation as it was 3-4 years ago (re-evaluated timeline) and she has grown so much since as a person and has beeb perfect since.

After my A I wanted us to recieve help on fixing our marriage from the issues my character flaws had caused. By mentioning this people would have focused to much on the past and not on the present. I dont believe her actions led to my A and I have OWNED that.

I would have mentioned it as part of our R but we arent there yet as im not NC with OW, and I still have a truck load of improvements in my current behaviour before I consider R an option.

No we havent yet, but I know my wife wants to, but we only have 30mins sessions each and steves coaching takes the vast majority of that. It is on her agenda as was her mentioning it here when the time was appropriate.

Well, you have wasted the valuable time of several dedicated board members by withholding critical information about your marriage. It's like going to a doctor for bronchitis but not telling him you had lung cancer 3 years ago. He can't accurately assess your overall health if he doesn't know the whole story along with your history.

I realize you didn't withhold this out of malice, but you should try and be a little more considerate of posters like SugarCane and writer who made an emotional investment in your situation based on an incorrect story. They don't deserve to be slammed for their frustration. They both deserve an apology, not a slam in the face. SC was so personally invested in your situation that she emailed me privately on your behalf. And this is the thanks she gets?

She might not be back,[I wouldn't post to you if you did that to me] but at the very least she deserves an apology and a thank you.

I apologise for posting about your situation on another thread. I did not think of how inappropriate and hurtful this would be before I did this. I will delete my posts from that thread as soon as I can; I'm having trouble at the moment.

Mel, thank you, but I do feel I should apologise for the way I posted about this couple. I will stay off their threads, which I think is best really, since they are working with Steve. They should not receive well meaning, but non-professional and sometimes conflicting advice from us while they are paying for expertise.

ML, Thank you for posting,

No the information was not withheld because of malice, it was withheld so the current desperate situation could be analysed and advised upon.

This forum is the first I've ever been on and the counciling I've had in the uk has been useless so when I came on here I didnt know what to expect. Her actions from 3-4 years ago are anything but fresh in my mind, so the need to mention them didnt come up.

The fact that I had an A has nothing to do with her actions way back then. The current situation her is so delicate and needs instant work and progress and that is what bought me to you guys.

If I had of mentioned her past, advice from you guys might not have been as helpful as you r respsonses may have been lessened. "Well emo you did this because she hurt you" etc...

Yes your right maybe we should have bared all upfront but it didnt seem like an issue of urgency compared to our current problems. The only reason I bought it up yesterday was due to my concerns over R. I didnt handle it well and should have spoken to W first before disclosing such personal comment on here.

We both come here everyday because we both value the advice given, SC keeps refering to herself as amateur - my take - I would sooner employ someone who has work experience than someone whos finished university with all the qualifications in the world but actually knows NOTHING about the job. Obviously im not refering the steve with this analagy but the fact that I do value SC's input.

Im not going to apologise for my outburst on another thread as that was uncalled for fine flame on my thread but not elesewhere. We came here for help and by doing that all that will happen is people with NO intention of helping will come to see the freak show!!

I will however reiterate my stance towards SC. I wish you to continue to monitor my situation. I want your honest feedback and advice. I do value your input and your knowledge. Im sorry that this has got out of hand.

I only hope that this calms down as I dont want the last 4 weeks to be a waste of time as now my W is being flamed by everyone here the advice seems to have stopped and now shes feeling really low that this site (which she considered her refuge/sactuary) is not going to be willing to help. If this is the case my M is lost

Please try to see things from my perspective, we just want to help to save our 10 year M. Can you continue to offer that here??

Thank you, I may have made a bad decision in your eyes but it doesnt mean I deserve to become the MB circus freak for all to stare at.



We may be paying for the expertise but thats directly focused on us moving forward, the coaching is specifically aimed at eliminating certain thoughts to allow the right frame of mind to save M.

Steve doesnt sit there for hours and breakdown or analyse our situation, he only has a rough timeline from us both but thats all he seems to want.

The advice and help given here at MB and from YOURSELF SC is valued by myself and my W. We are not trying to alienate you and im sorry you feel you need to back away. Other than getting angry due to your posting elsewhere I dont feel i've mistreated you??

I wish you to stay around my thread, you helped me alot in my early days here with the 2x4's

I value all advice given and yes, I may have made a bad choice to withhold infomation and im sorry for that, but dont give up on me for that.

Hope to speak to you soon

Emotionally, I don't think you need to worry about SC anymore, she probably won't be back. There are about 8-10 posters experienced in MB principles who are actively donating their time to about 60-100 posters in need, SC was one of the best. [I counted 61 posters needing help just on the 1st 3 pages of this forum alone] This is their free time that they DONATE. They don't have to do it. We all have full lives with careers and families. Personally, if I am trying to help someone and feel like my contributions are not valued by that poster, or that he is not honest or is contrary, then I make better use of my time by moving on to something else.

AT WHAT POINT HAVE I MADE HER FEEL HER CONTRIBUTIONS ARE NOT VALUED???

I JUST OBJECTED TO HER FLAMING ME ON A RANDOM THREAD??

DONT SEE YOUR POINT HERE SORRY??

Emotionally, she is gone, there is nothing to debate. You objected to her posts on another thread, she removed them. What more do you want?

Well we're not discussing music here, things are going to get heated/emotional/difficult etc.. if she is done just because I got angry for her actions then im really gutted to have lost an experienced member. If me getting angry is going to alienate people it makes me wonder how ANYONE gets help around here especially the WS??

I dont want ANYTHING else ML thats issue sorted?? why are you making this out to be such a big thing? I didnt think she acted fairly and she has removed posts. no problem?? why the overreation and backlash???