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Oh, I didn't mean you were comparing him to your X, just that we each bring our own baggage to a marriage, so it behooves us to put some thought into it and try to see things from our spouse's side.

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Rin,

While there may be a bit of turbulance in the waters these days, it sounds like you are captaining your (relation)ship well!

Stepping back. Looking at yourself. Looking at J. Looking at MB. Trying to find balance and the right path to steer thru to find the calm water once again.

Isn't that what a R is all about? Nothing is ever 100% perfect. What we do about those 'non-perfect' moments is what makes the difference.


Am really proud of you!


BS (me)
ExWS -Drac
DD 9
DSS 15
D Day 11/06
Divorced 10/01/07

"You Can't Fix Stupid" - My Mom
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Rin,

Have the two of you sat down and gone through the ENQ, the RC Q and the other basic concepts of MB lately? It sure sounds like at the very least the ENQ and the RC forms needs to be filled out.

As for SF, I am not sure what to say. Compatibility in the area is quite important, especially if SF is high on your EN list.

As for stepping back at taking your own inventory...I say KUDOS! We all need to re-examine what we bring to the R.

No, we haven't done the EQN or the RC Q...SF is very high on the list for me and coming out of my past R into this one is A MAJOR change...I am dealing with a extremely low Libido...and sometimes it's very difficult not taking that personal...

This part puts a negative spin on the rest of the relationship when I allow it...I was having a bad morning with this, no I decided to read up on the topic with men. I am working on acceptance but THIS IS EXTREMELY difficult...it's like a plague...and if I allow it to infect the other areas of the R then all is bad...which is not the case...

And of course it causes some pretty strong emotional reactions from me...the conversations in my head...in the beginning J talked about going to the Dr. and seeing if there was something we could do about this...but it was not a problem when we discussed it at the time...so I said that if it became a problem then we would look into that...

I have even tried to put a positive spin on it...I never have to worry about him cheating on me...ut for the first time I am worried about me...I have always been extremely loyal, would not want to inflict the pain that was inflicted on me...have always avoided sitchs that would put me in a position that would cause that kind of temptation or whatever to ensue...I have not voiced those worries to him yet...it was on my mind this morning, but I plan on it...because without speaking up about the thought in my head, I open myself up to being a Wayward...and in my mind, SF is a stupid reason to give up everything that I have with him...however, the heartache is real...

Thanks for the kudos!

Quote
Have you reread the "Willingness to Desire" articles on here lately? Maybe something will ring a bell?

I have not but will be heading that way after I post this...Thanks for dropping by, so good to see you around...I was unaware that you ahve changed your name! smile

Cat, lol, I didn't think that...it was just me thinking out loud...because I do worry about me comparing them and it's certainly not fair to J...more of a matter of keeping myself in check...

BUGS!!!!
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Isn't that what a R is all about? Nothing is ever 100% perfect. What we do about those 'non-perfect' moments is what makes the difference.
I completely agree and if I can deal with the stuff in my past R, then why in the heck can't I do it in this one...I spent 15 years making that one work...this should be easier...

THE major difference is I have a willing partner who would bend over backwards to make me happy...nevertheless it's difficult not to struggle...keeping focus...


A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
Thomas Carlyle
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(((Rin)))

Dating is the time to see if the R is right and will lead to M. Do NOT settle for anything less than what you really need and can live with. I am dealing with an H with low libido after his LTA. It is a HUGE blow to my ego and my need for SF is quite high. If we were not already M'd, I am not sure I could accept this. The feelings lack of SF bring to the table for the BS are huge and deep, probably because we associate it so closely with the betrayal. Please take your time and pray about this.


Faith

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(((Faithful)))
I'm so sorry that you are dealing with that! I can understand your feelings...

I'm not sure that I can accept it either right now...it doesn't bother me all of the time...

This morning was the first time that I actually looked it up...trying to understand it...it seems more socially acceptable in women then with men...if women have a low drive, it's caulked up to that's the way we are but if it's the case of men then they're something wrong with them...

WHy? Because it's socially acceptable for men to be horndogs? Please and the bad part of that is: It's been built into my brain...

What I'm looking for is a common ground...if there is one...I'm in no rush to do anything and I would rather know what our issues are going to be now then like you said if we were M'd...

I just haven't come to the conclusion whether this is a deal breaker yet...


A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
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I just haven't come to the conclusion whether this is a deal breaker yet...
You will know in time. I would say don't rush and spend plenty of time examining your needs and wants in a M partner.


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Good Morning! J and I had a long talk last night, we ended up staying up until after 2am.

The end result was that he will be going to the dr. after the first of the year and checking into if there are any medical problems behind this. He would go sooner however he has missed a lot of work with physical therapy and surgery on his shoulder. MOF, he goes back to the dr. tomorrow to find out if he'll be completely released or if he will need more time to retrain those muscles.

He asked if he was clear in the beginning that he had a problem with this and I said yes you told me however, I didn't believe him. I had never ran across someone like this before! He also asked me Didn't I say that I would go to the dr. to get checked out? I said yes, but I didn't think that this was a problem then and said to hold off until it became a problem.

I explained my feelings and how my confidence level was being affected by this and how it was leading into my thoughts about cheating down the road and I certainly didn't want that to happen because there was no way that I wanted to cause him that kind of pain. So I got all of that out of my system. The whole time he was sitting across from me crossed legged in the bed, same as me. That still makes me uncomfortable sometimes because he actually sits there and listens. Doesn't say anything and just lets me talk or cry which I did do some of before I sat up.

When we first began, we had another issue to address because I screwed up and made him feel like crap which I am still not happy about. It was completely unrelated. J doesn't celebrate holidays; of course, I do and am not sure how to take that. We had a discussion earlier in the day about Thanksgiving. It was just stupid and I didn't even realize I made him feel like crap until he made a statement something else. I felt so bad, after that was addressed, it led to discussion on other topics. All of which led to some cuddling and full hearts carrying over to this morning.

He reiteriated that he would do anything to make me happy last night and I said that I knew that and I knew he loved me. He even joked about me never having to worry about him cheating on me and I laughed because I actually thought about that as one of the highlights to the problem. Also, even though it wouldn't bother me, I never have to worry about him looking at other women. he even explained that he started noticing a problem a few years back when his friends were talking about SF or would notice a woman, which made him question things about himself.

I actually felt bad for him. Another issue that I am having and have to review is the "rule of protection" here on MB. J mentioned that I couldn't have his feeling or that he was not made of glass and wouldn't break if I said something. So I explained what I thought was the rule but will be headed to clarify that for myself this morning.

Sometimes I want to say things to him but it's like my throat closes up because I think it would hurt his feeling and I explained that in that light I guessed I wasn't being fair to him that it could be a DJ, which he agreed. So I guess I need to look at that also, it's been so long.

I didn't get around to showing him the article on Willingness to Desire that "New" suggested I read. We just didn't get around to it but I did use it's recommendations and I learned alot. I learned that he is like a kettle of hot water...slow to heat...some years ago, I had read on touch and as we were laying there getting ready to go to sleep, he mentioned that he liked it when I ran my hand over his chest. So I used touch to see what he would do and how he would respond. So, by the end of the night, I was happy with the turnout and thanked him for taking the hours to talk to me, being so caring and considerate and for letting me learn about him.

One of the best things about us is that aside from SF, our ENs match, and it's so easy to give. Are do I chalk that up to it still being relatively a new R? Today is good!


A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
Thomas Carlyle
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When I read your thread, and Bugsy's thread, I realize how much work can go into a relationship AFTER you have survived an A. Wow, I read these things and think "maybe if I had taken my M that seriously I still might have it." Unfortunately, I didn't know then all that I know now. Wish I did.

You are doing great!!!


BS - me 56
XWH - 57

12/25/06 - Dday - WH promised NC. Plan A in effect. Thought we were in recovery.

6-3-07 - Dday#2 Found out NC never took place and A never ended. Found MB NC promised again, but WH would not write NC letter.

9/07 - Dday #3. Still lying and sneaking around. Plan B implemented
WH wants nothing to do with me

Divorced as of 12/09 after 36 years
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HI All...I had a fellow MBer ask me today if I visit here anymore and I said that I thought about it form time to time but feel as if I don't really need to anymore...

I did have an issue come up last night that bothered me extrememly...but I'll get to that in a moment...

Quick update...it's almost three years since I decided to end my marriage and when I left all the kids and I had were the clothes piled in the trunk of my car and my check coming to me from work...I fought hard to get us back into the house, which took almost 7 months through our wonderful court system and my WS fighting me every little way...it was a battle and I lost alot along the way...

The kids and I just got back from a trip to TN...it was their first plane trip, first time they really saw snow, or snowboard, or ice skated, or rode the tram up the mountain...they saw the way ppl move through an airport, the moving walkways...and rode the tram insode the airport...FOR ME it was priceless to be able to give them all of that...

My BF and I have been seeing each other for almost 11 months now and the kinks in the chain that were there have dissolved...he, J, promised me in the beginning that regardless of how things turned out for us that I would be in a better position financially then when I met him. I was not getting CS for the XWS, so we cut up credit cards together, and set some goals. He is still in the process of accomplishing his and I have exceeded mine in record time. I have had to re-evaluate mine.

Success is an under-statement for how far I have come in the last three years. It's great peace and much joy, althought I do have my bad days and J is right there to hold my hand or offer whatever support I ask for. Notice I said ask for...I ahve stop asking in my M, because even when I asked I didn't recieve. With J, I had to learn how to do that and BE COMFORTABLE doing it. Not easy as were alot of things, some of which I am still working on.

For the most part, I still stick to Plan B with XWS, he lives in a different reality but occassional I'm more open with him and have more contact with him as a result fo the kids. Then I get a slap on the hand and I'm back to my turtle shell.

Last night was a slap...I asked for some help with a few things around the house that I could not do by myself, and J was not in town nor is it his territory. It went fine, everyone got along...like a honeymoon period...all of about three hours...

During the D, XWS sold my motorcycle to the neighbor's across the street, it was in his name...I met them at a party and asked how my bike was doing and they agreed to sell it back to me...the title was still in XWS's name, which he agree to transfer into my name...done today...

Here's the kicker...he has not paid me CS in forever, he's behind almost 8K...he asked me last night if I would write a letter to the state asking saying that I am forgiving him of whatever dollar amount I saw fit for all of the help he has given me because he doesn't want to go to jail...that is unless I want him to go to jail...said he's not going to be able to pay all of the arrears back and ever catch up...

I will have to continue this later...I'm sorry for ending it so quickly...


A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
Thomas Carlyle
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No, because he needs to face the consequences, or he will NEVER pay child support.

You should push this issue.

My DD's ex wasn't paying his child support, either. She took him back to court over and over. He spent time in jail after all those court hearings. Finally, he was charged with felony child abandonmnet under FEDERAL law.

Now, he is paying child support, including arrears, EVERY WEEK, and has done so for hte past 3 years. He is also being consistent in being in DGS's life.

He is on probation until DGS turns 18. One missed child support check (which goes through our county clerk's office and not DHS), and he goes to prison. One missed appointment with his probation officer, and he goes to prison. One incident of law-breaking, and he goes to prison.

Hold his feet to the fire.

The money is not yours, except that it reimburses you for what you spend on the boys. The money is what your boys are entitled to have, so that they have what they need without their mother having to work herself to the bone in order to provide for them.

$8,000 is a lot of money to "pay" your xWH for doing a little work around the house.


"Your actions are so loud that I can't hear a word you're saying!"

BW M 44 yrs to still-foggy but now-faithful WH. What/how I post=my biz. Report any perceived violations to the Mods.
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Hi Rin!

Your trip sounds like it was fantastic! About your XH, I think you should maybe just pay him the going rate for a handyman or unskilled laborer for 3 hours of work (not sure what that is, but it certainly isn't $8,000). I also agree with Lady Clueless about the CS. It isn't money he owes you, it's money he owes his sons.

He needs to be a "big boy" and own up to his responsibilities. Maybe he needs the threat of jail to follow through with taking care of his kids. Also, since you are able to support them on your own, that money can go into an account for them for their future. Don't let him off this hook, especially since he put himself there.

Love ya'


johnstwin-

"I may not know what the future holds, but I know who holds my future." -Martin Luther

Remarried my FXH 25 years to the day of our first M. God is so good-and sometimes so unexpected!

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hello, ladies, thanks for dropping in! I completely agree with you both...he has enough ppl putting pillows under his butt, I'm not the one...

He was asking for a partial forgiveness but it doesnt matter...

I actually explained the whole conversation to the boys and asked them what did they want me to do...because it was there money...I have already set up a college fund for the both of them and when I got the money, if I ever do, a large part of it was going into those funds...

Well, OS asked What help had he provided and both of them said no and they know what the consequences are...I try hard to give them just the information like we have talked about here on MB...never felt I had to bad mouth XWS because they are smart enough to figure things out for themselves...in Jan. they told me after picking them up from their Christmas vacation with him they didnt want to go back...after things calmed down, about three weeks they were ready...

What I'm concerned about is his reaction to me saying no when I tell him I'm not doing it. After talking to some friends, when XWS comes to drop off the kids, a friend of J's will be here with me, in case XWS's temper gets out of hand, should that happen...but I don't even plan to go outside when he comes...just planning to keep safe...back to plan B...one inch is a mile with him...there's no happy medium for us to have a friendly relationship because we have kids together...he can't get past his own selfishness...

I might even be worrying for no reason but given his history I'd rather be safe than sorry...


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Always protect yourself, but do not give him what he wants out of fear.

You should be prepared to act with lightning speed if he should ever attempt to harm or even threaten you. By this, I mean that you should be prepared to use the law to lower the boom on him if he ever dares to mess with you. For instance, you can have 911 on speed-dial. Have a voice-activated recorder hidden somewhere on you, and I'd also have another one hidden nearby, during any interaction with him.

I think that you can be civil, but I don't think you can ever be friends with him. He is not worthy.


"Your actions are so loud that I can't hear a word you're saying!"

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Good morning! SO far as good on the XWS and the letter front...he ended up txting me Friday to ask about it again...

Of course, he said that if I had no intentions of writing the letter I should have told me about it when he asked me...then it become questions about how did the state have any say so in how I raised the boys...to which I replied of course they had no say so...

He still tried to ask me to write write the letter becuase if it helped him out what did I have to lose...so I finally said I'll forget CS if he gave up all rights to the kids and he said why would he do that and I said exactly, therefore I'm not giving up CS...

Then he tried, well it doesnt make you a bad person...but it was like he was still pushing for it and I even told him that I felt he was pressuring me...and the last comment that I didnt reply to was something about he didnt want to have his boys see "their daddy in jail"...

At one point, he said something about how he hoped I knew that he wasn't trying to not take care of them and that he would do anything for them including me at one point...to which I almost replied...You could have fooled me and thought better of it because I didn't want to escalate the conversation...

When he dropped the kids off last night, I just happen to be online with J, who is still offshore, so it was a great excuse not to go outside...the boys came right in and XWS left promptly...

He even txted me Saturday to ask something about the boys and a paper OS had to write. The fact that he's still being nice, is more reason to not trust him...so I moving back into a quiet plan B...

As far as I'm concerned the fact that he's headed to jail for non payment is not my problem...this is just been a series of bad choices for him since I left...I'm just not there to pick up the pieces for him anymore...


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Rin:

This is the right attitude:

"As far as I'm concerned the fact that he's headed to jail for non payment is not my problem"

You are easier to work over than the Support Enforcemnt folks. They do not listen to BS. So, let him deal with them.

Your doing great. Do not let him pull you down anymore.

Record everything.

LG

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My response, if I were you, at the level of spunk and recovery that you have:
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Look. The only way I could possibly consider accepting what you are asking for is that if you truly do not want to be their father, with all of the responsibilities that go with it, fine - sign over all rights and relinquish your role as a father in their lives.

Boys need to eat. They need clothes. They need medical care. They need a father who will show up for them in that regard as well as to the fun stuff like getting to be with them. If you can't be all that, then don't be any of it. But let's do this all legally. You sign off your rights. I'll write the letter. Witnessed. Signed. Sealed. Delivered.

If, on the other hand, you really do want to be their father at all, then be their father all in. Do what ever it takes to legally provide for them - that means second, third jobs, whatever it takes.

Because I'm not going to be their father in the sense of the word you're supposed to, and then let you take them away for the father-son stuff that's fun. I'm doing whatever it takes. You can step up and do it too.

Don't ask again.

I mean it. Step up and be their father or butt out!

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LG, thanks for the support...I keep "forgetting" that I can't allow him to feel the least comfortable with me or be around me in the smallest amount...cause if I do then he thinks we are peachy...

I will certainly follow your advice!

KA- You know as well as I do that will never happen...I have no doubt that he loves his kids but his selfishness overrules anything that's good for them...I'm dreading the day when I decided to move out of the state...

I think my next move will be a reduction in visitation...to every other weekend...he tried to get that a few years ago, just a verbal with me and I said if we were going to do it then I wanted to go through my lawyer and he didn't want any part of that...

He has not problems taking them and hardly ever misses any time with them...but the living conditions are horrible...and as far as offering support, he has never had a problem with allowing other ppl to pick up his slack...starting when we were living with friends right after I left...continuing with J helping us out until I could get back on my feet with groceries and gas...all of those things doesn't bother XWS at all...

I mention those things to him and he says "well, you dont think it's been hard on me, look where I'm living!" To which I think, that's a matter of choices partner...

I'm said it many times, he may not deserve them, but the kids deserve him, regardless of his choices and lifestyle...I just have to have faith that they see how he lives and will want better for themselves...I was like that with my dad...

ON another note, I have been in a funky mood the last two days...J's been gone for almost two and a half weeks...and I was really missing him, but now I'm kind of blah about him coming home...I know what I'm doing...I'm focusing on when he comes home and not living in the here and now...and it's causing me some heartache...need to recenter and stop punishing myself...I've got a good thing and want to be excited to see him when he finally comes home...

I feel bad for ppl who's spouse have passed...some days everything reminds me of him and then others are okay...

Well, I have to get to work...again day, another dollar! Hope everyone has a great one! Thanks for all of the support, always greatly appreciated!


A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
Thomas Carlyle
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