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Confusing - she can divorce you without your signature? And she can force you out of the house if your name is on the deed?


Sooly

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"The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you."

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Hold, sometimes I think we're on opposite sides of the same coin. Not about the SF, but about the anger and resentment.

I'm holding on to so much of it, that even if H capitulated, agreed to talk to Steve and tried to make a go of improving our marriage... well, I'm not sure I'm even interested anymore.

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Originally Posted By: Soolee
Confusing - she can divorce you without your signature? And she can force you out of the house if your name is on the deed?


She can file for divorce by herself. That gets the process started. Eventually they will serve me with the papers. And eventually the judge will grant her divorce even if I object. That is the whole point of "no-fault" divorce. She doesn't have to prove I did anything wrong to divorce me. She just has to keep saying "I no longer want to be married to him" often enough over a long enough period of time, and the judge will grant her request even if I prefer to remain married to her.

As for the house, doesn't matter whose name is on the deed. It is marital property. It will be divided up as part of the divorce. If the judge gives her the house, she gets the house.

Now, that is oversimplified and there can be details that would make it more or less likely depending on the facts of a particular case. But in this case. Where we bought the house while we were married. With down payment funds that came from a joint account. And have been paying the mortgage with money I earned during the marriage. Then the house will almost certainly be seen as marital property subject to equitable distribution. Even though only my name is on the deed (done not to prevent her from owning a share of the home, but to hide her from the guy who was stalking her at the time we bought this house). And even though the down payment on our first house came entirely from money I earned before we got married, and that was more money than we put down on this house.


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Thanks for explaining.


Sooly

"Stop yappin and make it happen."
"The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you."

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Hold you are expecting sex from your wife thats why you are doing the drive by with your conversations with your wife,thats why you post here time again and again about sex. If you was not expecting or wanting sex it would not be a issue for you. Its kind of like someone living on welfare that wants to live in a fancy house but does not want to do anything to achieve it. A little less talk and alot more action!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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No, I am not expecting sex. I am expecting to stay married to her without sex. Which I hate. So I post here to deal with the reality that I am choosing to remain in an unpleasant situation. I strive to achieve acceptance, which eludes me. I am making the choice to stay despite the drawbacks. But I am not choosing to make the best of the situation.

I post here because I am not pursuing happiness. I am not working toward a positive goal. I am working to maintain a bad situation out of fear the alternative might be worse. I am staying to maintain contact with my children because I fear I would choose to withdraw from them upon divorce. I am staying to prevent particular kinds of harmful experiences to my daughter (while recognizing that the example we are setting is a poor one). And I am staying to prevent the outcome that divorce would result in Mrs. Hold being happy and me being miserable.

That is my essential dilemma. I am not trying to achieve happiness for myself. Hence no actions will avail me. Some here may think that seeking happiness would motivate me to reconnect with Mrs. Hold. But instead it would motivate me to leave her. Of course, that is based on my view of the situation and the odds of various outcomes. Which, given what a messed-up nut-case I am, is probably quite warped.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone! I hope you all choose actions that pursue happiness for yourselves, your families, and your communities.


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OK, but I dont think that many of the posters see it that way.

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If the majority of posters here get the impression that I am actively pursuing happiness in my life, then I am doing a very poor job of expressing myself. Or maybe it is just that my fear of saying the truth clearly and concisely (because it would be twisted and used against me during a divorce proceeding) obscures my underlying message.


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It is very, very hard, in a limited medium like this, to truly be able to walk in another's shoes. It's hard to completely understand the dynamic and context of that other person's life. We have our own filters and perceptions colored by our own experience. That being said, I understand completely Hold's dynamic because I've been there at one time in my life.

I'll repeat that the past is dead. We can extract value from the past in what was good and what we would want to avoid in the future. Other than that, no debts from the past can ever be repaid in full. Therefore, harboring resentments is self-defeating and dysfunctional and serves no purpose to deliver you from yourself or the unhappy world you've constructed for yourself. One thing I learned from my divorce that the very reason we are here right now is solely by our personal choice and often we choose unwisely. Your fate is your personal choice. You picked a non-complimentary partner, again your choice, and unwise it appears. You can continue to choose unwisely for yourself and this is in turn reflected in your wife choices and the choices made by your children. You'll leave them a legacy of unwise choices as their life-template and they will in turn execute unwise choices based upon the paradigm you've established for them in the practice of your life. Your all in a negative-feedback loop and until you embrace the thought that repeating the same processes and expecting a different result is highly non-production, the negative-feedback loop will remain in place.

I understand you all to well and know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it will take a total disruption of your life to effect any possibility of positive change. Your fear will make you risk-adverse to that level of change. It was enormously painful for me to undergo that process but it saved my life. It boils down to whether or not you want to live your life. Again, your personal choice.

Free will cuts both ways.


Me: 48 XW: 44 DD: 15
Lived Together: 7 Married: 18 Total: 25 years
W announced divorce 11-3-2006, I moved out 11-7-2006, served papers 11-8-2006. Divorce final 12-19-2006. Life gets better every day.
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It's a matter of personal choice (shrugging). You aren't the only one posting here, I'm sure, who is choosing to stay in an arrangement that feels so unhealthy.

Frankly, I would pursue other interests while you wait this out, and I think I mentioned these before: Getting the credit cards paid off, staying in good physical health, pursuing your career, and being a model dad. Pretend she's your housekeeper or your sister. (shrugging again)

The thing I wonder, though, is whether your mindset will change to that of leaving after your children are raised and off to college. I suspect you'll stay then...because you won't want to share with or expose your grandchildren to another man either.

I'd feel sorry for you, Hold, but you're a grown man and how you spend the rest of your life is entirely up to you.

Personally, I think your wife deserves to know everything that's going on in your head that effects the marriage, but then again - that could be dangerous, because then she might take you seriously and start changing.


Sooly

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"The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you."

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Originally Posted By: booka
I understand you all to well and know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it will take a total disruption of your life to effect any possibility of positive change. Your fear will make you risk-adverse to that level of change.


Correct. You do understand me.

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It boils down to whether or not you want to live your life.


Nope. Life is too scary. I prefer to be anesthetized.

Soolee

I wish your wife knew what you thought, maybe she would change.

Several years ago we had a frequent poster who went to counselling with his wife. Eventually she realized he was serious about not wanting to continue the game playing. I can remember what he said happened next:

I say the light bulb go on in her head. And then she took off so far and so fast, I haven't heard from her since.

I am sure Mrs. Hold would change her behavior if she knew how I felt. She would run so far and so fast I would never catch up to her.


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Holding,

I hear you about the fear of withdrawing from your kids if divorce were to happen. I fear the same thing, and that is why I will bare this out until they are out of the house.

Have a good thanks giving.

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Originally Posted By: holdingontoit

That is my essential dilemma. I am not trying to achieve happiness for myself.


How come?

Hold, I want to apologize for my unkind post yesterday.Of course I do not wish your marriage to go down-hill faster. You have enough problems and you certainly don't need me bashing you on an internet forum. It's just that we are all finding it very difficult to accept your decision, which is "I know I can - but I will not help myself".

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Hold, I haven't given up on you either. It takes what it takes. I'm grateful y'all didn't give up on me when I went through a stubborn period.

Last edited by NewEveryDay; 11/25/09 09:39 PM.

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I am sure Mrs. Hold would change her behavior if she knew how I felt. She would run so far and so fast I would never catch up to her.

I am surprised and disappointed that you have such little faith in your ability to get your point across in such a way that wouldn't alienate her. Given your vocation and all the time you've spent here, you've surely learned enough skills to do this effectively? What makes you so sure of your proposed outcome? When did you acquire the ability to read her mind?

Hold...let me ask this too...If you could erase the past and all the hard feelings - and if you were a stranger to your wife and you just met, would you consider yourself worthy to be her husband? Would YOU want to be married to you?

Last edited by Soolee; 11/26/09 11:31 PM.

Sooly

"Stop yappin and make it happen."
"The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you."

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Originally Posted By: Soolee
if you were a stranger to your wife and you just met, would you consider yourself worthy to be her husband? Would YOU want to be married to you?


No, not at this point. Being married to someone who isn't even trying to be happy must be awful.

Had a very interesting weekend psych-wise.

Saturday morning the kids were out and Mrs. Hold and I talked briefly at the kitchen table. I said "to me, there are 2 possibilities. Either you never found me at all attractive but you tolerated me for the money and parenting. That is a soul deadening level of rejection. Or you have issues from the rapes which remain unresolved. I can understand not wanting to deal with them. I have issues I am not dealing with, either. But if you don't, I see no chance for us reconnecting." She said "I have put the rapes behind me. I wanted you back with me even though it would have been easy to just let you stay in the living room. I love you." Then she hugged me.

I realize that was huge on her part. I am so dead inside, I felt nothing.

Saturday night was my 30th high school reunion. I made the 2.5 hour drive to attend. Saw some people I have not seen in ages. The good news is that it confirmed my memory - I was not really friends with anyone. Which in a wierd way felt good. These days I frequently question my grasp on objective reality. I wonder whether perhaps my perceptions are false and reality was different than I remember. But in this case I was right. There wasn't anyone who had stories to tell of our time together in high school. Even the kid who lived down the block and our families took turns making lunch during elementary school (we were "walkers" who went home for lunch) didn't have much to say about me. Except to confirm to a gal who thought she was the biggest nerd in our class "no, Hold was". And this guy teaches high school math, so from him it is high praise!

I am glad I went. Would have been easy to give in to my fear and stay home and "hide". It was not painful. Even being snubbed by some people I went to elementary school with was not bad (although perhaps that is evidence of how depressed I am). And although I am far from handsome, it was good to see how old some of the guys looked. I don't have a huge gut and still have most of my hair so I didn't look that bad.

Sunday morning we got up early and Mrs. Hold "debriefed" me about the reunion. Then she stroked me all over and we had sex. Miserable failure on my part despite the Viagra, but that is what I have come to expect so by now it is probably a self-fulfilling prophesy.

You know how sometimes you perceive something not by its presence but by its absence? That was this weekend. I realize how depressed I am by the absence of feelings.


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I said "to me, there are 2 possibilities. Either you never found me at all attractive but you tolerated me for the money and parenting. That is a soul deadening level of rejection. Or you have issues from the rapes which remain unresolved. I can understand not wanting to deal with them. I have issues I am not dealing with, either. But if you don't, I see no chance for us reconnecting." She said "I have put the rapes behind me. I wanted you back with me even though it would have been easy to just let you stay in the living room. I love you." Then she hugged me.

Hold, I'd just like to congratulate you for having this conversation with her. I think it was very important. I'd like to challenge you to take this another step further and ask her how you can know she is past the rapes and that perhaps counseling for her may help you move beyond it? Perhaps suggest that as a couple both of you need to move beyond the rapes and POJA on how to accomplish that.

I think when a person is raped, the rape doesn't just happen to the direct victim, but also to those who love and care about that person. I think your focus on the rapes suggests that you do love and care for her.

I can relate on the reunion thing. I'm 46 and haven't been to one yet. Was thinking the other day how I sort of snubbed someone I went to school with because she wouldn't have anything to do with me in high school and then suddenly when we have kids the same age, we're supposed to be friends. I just didn't have it in me. I have enough friends, you know?

Also can relate on perhaps aging a bit better than some. It's a good feeling.

Hold, can you understand that even if your wife wasn't raped, even if that wasn't part of the issue here, trying to reconnect with you in this state would be difficult for her? We can sit back and say that your state is due to her, but where does your own responsibility fall in this? Hold...how do you feel about going on an AD for a while? Possibly getting some more counseling? No offense intended. Do you think it may benefit you to go perhaps once every month until you are in a better position to decide your future for sure.

Last edited by Soolee; 11/30/09 09:18 AM.

Sooly

"Stop yappin and make it happen."
"The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you."

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Soolee very interesting post!! many thoughts come to my mind about Mr.and Mrs Hold just wondering if Mrs.hold has been connected all this time but withdrew into spending and from sex because thats the only way she could get any attention from Mr.Hold. She saw Mr. hold being a good parent and she tried by going over board with gifts and extra spending thinking that was her way of being a good parent to their children and Mr. Hold loves his children. After readying that post about the reunion just wondering abou Mr. Holds peception in and about life in general. Maybe some anti-dep meds might do the trick. I am on a mild one and it really does help. Hold I think there is more love in both of you than you are able to reconise!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted By: Soolee
I have enough friends, you know?


No, I don't know. But I'll take your word on it. stickout

Quote:
trying to reconnect with you in this state would be difficult for her?


Not difficult. Impossible. I am not open to her reconnecting.

Quote:
We can sit back and say that your state is due to her, but where does your own responsibility fall in this?


My state is not due to her. It predates meeting her by decades. Marrying her just reinforced all my bad tendencies.

Quote:
Hold...how do you feel about going on an AD for a while? Possibly getting some more counseling? No offense intended. Do you think it may benefit you to go perhaps once every month until you are in a better position to decide your future for sure.


No offense taken. Been in counseling before. Been on AD meds before. Doubt going back would benefit me. But probably worth getting my files from the various docs so I can recreate the history of what I tried before.


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Originally Posted By: dsd
just wondering if Mrs.hold has been connected all this time but withdrew into spending and from sex because thats the only way she could get any attention from Mr.Hold.


Nope. She withdrew from sex back when I spent every waking moment outside work kissing her butt. We spent every minute of every night and weekend together. She was never connected once I slid the ring on her finger.

But that is beside the point. As many here have said, at this point the focus should be on me and my life and the problems inside my head and not on Mrs. Hold.


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