Staytogether, there are other differences between real abuse and a WW's playing a fake abuse card. Abused women simply don't cry out loudly for help. If they are truly being abused, they are far too terrified of their husbands to make a public claim like that. They certainly wouldn't make bold accusations - they would more likely defend their spouse's inappropriate actions and take the blame themselves. When they do ask for help, it is very, very subtle - because if their spouse gets wind of it, they know they are dead.

"Exit affair" as an excuse? Not around here - it just has a little different shading to it.

Standard affair - EN's not being met, but overall has been a good, connected marriage, up until the point where someone else steps in to meet EN's for one of the spouses. At that point, the WS withdraws in earnest.

Exit affair - one spouse has been unhappy, and grown withdrawn on their own. As they search for a way out, but just haven't taken the plunge yet, someone meets their EN's and an affair is off and running.


Both affairs - equally wrong.
Both affairs - treatable with MB.

Why is a distinction made? IMO because an exit affair may require more time and patience to end, and re-attach the WS. It excuses nothing, but simply indicates small variations in the treatment.

"exit affair" is in the same class as other mythological, meaningless terms such as "mid-life crisis," "closure" and "soul-mate." It sounds cute and trendy to say, but means nothing; bumper stickers substituted for critical thinking.

And the rest of you people are coddlers!! Admit it!!

The idea that if a man has an affair he's bad, we agree with that. But largely, if a woman leaves, the assumption is that the woman was mis-treated, so she's justified in leaving, having an affair etc.

Even my pastor, when I went to him with my ex-wife's affair asked what I did to her to make her have an affair.

Good grief, if a man who has studied the sin nature of humanity asks such an insane question, there really is no hope.

This (esp. the pastor's question) makes my blood boil!

I can't tell you how many times I have been asked something to the effect of: "well, what did you do that made her have an affair?"

(F*** you) is what I really want to say in response...usually I just say "she made self-destructive and immoral choices irregardless of me" and leave it at that.

When is that last time anyone has ever heard someone ask a BW: "what did you do wrong that made your WH need another woman?" NEVER!

There is seldom ONE abuser in an abusive relationship. Abuse is a cycle and typically both participate in that cycle.

Most are only concerned with physical abuse, or verbal abuse, but discount the emotional abuse that women are experts in dishing out.

Any sort of affair is abusive behavior, according to Dr Harley, so any women (or man) who chooses to have an affair is just acting as a co-combatant in an abusive relationship.

So if someone says they had an affair because of their spouses abuse, remind them that they too are an abuser. So unless they want the abuse the allege their spouse inflicted upon them to be considered valid, they should end the abuse they are now inflicting upon their spouse.

Abuse is never excused, ever. Including the abuse of betraying your spouse.

Very seldom is abuse a one-sided event. It's an escalation, typically by BOTH parties, not just one.

We only focus on the actions of one party, failing to address the damaging acts leading up to the ones society seems to really care about. In other words, ignoring all the other abuse inflicted one upon another.

Anytime a wife tells her husband or child he won't amount to anything, she's abusing him.

Any sort of LB is abuse according to Dr Harley. So anyone who has DJ'ed their spouse, oh say going along with the idea that their ways are better than the ways of their spouse for instance, have engaged in a form of verbal and emotional abuse.

So read my words carefully, a so-called victim never deserves abuse. However, they typically contribute just as much to the circumstance with their own abusive tactics as does their so called abuser.

In other words, both parties are victims and abusers one of another.

This can be true, but is not always. Clearly there are situations where the abuse is flowing only in one direction or ,at least , the vast majority comes form one person and, occassionally, in anger and desperation, the other party fires back.
You kick a nice, gentle dog enough and it will bite you.

Someone always has to start it. When two people meet, one of them has to be abusive first and therefore kick the sleeping dog.

I totally agree that there are 2 abusers. I can't imagine anyone to a DJ or succesive DJs, some resentment builds and the abuse escalates.

It is only now that I know not to yell and name call back when I am being called names. It is only now that I know to remove myself and stop the abuse.

How do you know to do that unless you have been taught and how many people learn that lesson before they reach the point of having relationships? Most of us learn our best lessons from our mistakes.

I know where the abuse started in my relationship: I felt sorry for my H because he looked miserable and I wanted to change him - I wanted to make him happy ( a DJ- I look back now and can see that my motives were plain odd - I saw him as a challenge ) he was abusive to start with:

gave me ultimatums about what would happen to our relationship if I went to Uni and others. He actually told me in the first few months how miserable he would make me. What a strange basis for a relationship! Neither of us recognised that as abuse at the time - both of us happy to go along with it. I'm talking the first few weeks here.

Sometimes it's easier to control the abuse than others. Until you actually live it and make a proper attempt to break the cycle you are often not really aware of it.

Whilst in a state of conflict both partners are abusive. Is it possible to be in a state of conflict without being abusive?

SDCWMan, I don't think it makes too much difference, and it's not always possible to tell.

For my FWH, it was definitely not an exit A. There were some things about the M he was unhappy about and hadn't told me, and ditto with me, but he didn't decide to get a D till someone else was there fanning the flames of his dissatisfaction. We were very close up until then.

If a man or woman comes on here, and feels they and their WS have been distant for the last few years, it's a pretty safe bet that the WS is going to take more time and work to re-attach, and to reach recovery. Whether you call it an exit affair or not, the more detachment there is, the more work needs to be done during Plan A and recovery to fix it.

Since the treatment is the same, figuring out which of the above scenarios fits more closely is irrelevant. I think where it might help to mention is for a BS who is still under the 2-year threshold, growing weary and discouraged, and just needs more patience to wait it out.