Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 57 1 2 3 4 5 6 56 57
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,888
F
Member
OP Offline
Member
F
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,888
I just love how responses come so quickly! Thanks, everyone.

BH, my WW has already told the neighbors she's leaving. I just don't know if she's told them why. Or if she's been honest about the reason (God knows, she hasn't been honest about anything else!).

I tried calling the OMW, but her phone is disconnected. No additional details. But I have her address through Internet searching (which give both his name and hers at the same address).

I don't know the relationship between the OM and the woman in whose house he and WW are camping. I know the house is not his because I checked the tax records, and they only show this woman's name. She's ten years older than OM. She may be a relative, a co-worker, or just someone who rents him a room. It's a large, grand house in an upscale community further out in the country. A lot of creature comforts and amenities, but it's not his...


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
St. Francis of Assissi
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,155
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,155
I agree ML but in this case she has already told neighbours something just not the truth, would it be harmful if BS lets her know that he is not going to lie for her. He doesent need to say anything more than that. It seems that he is not on the level with these neighbours where he can just pick up the phone and tell them, that would seem odd. He is however entitled to make more of an effort to talk to them and expose WW somewhere within what seams like an ordinary conversation.


BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months

Divorced

Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.

If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,888
F
Member
OP Offline
Member
F
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,888
Originally Posted by Brutallyhonest28
I agree ML but in this case she has already told neighbours something just not the truth, would it be harmful if BS lets her know that he is not going to lie for her. He doesent need to say anything more than that. It seems that he is not on the level with these neighbours where he can just pick up the phone and tell them, that would seem odd. He is however entitled to make more of an effort to talk to them and expose WW somewhere within what seams like an ordinary conversation.

Just to add: I work out a home office. I'm at home all day, every day (except when I have to travel on business). I see the neighbors walking their kids to the bus stop, walking the dogs, etc. If I'm out getting the mail, I talk with them. I speak with the H next door about cars, tools, and guy things.

So while I don't do the beer-and-football routine with the guys, I see and speak with them and their Ws.


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
St. Francis of Assissi
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 508
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 508
I did not expose to my neighbors and I am glad I didn't. Exposing to them would have served no purpose; the reason to expose, as I understand it, is to put pressure on the A to help destroy it. My neighbors were not close to my W therefore exposure would have only helped me feel vindicated. It would not have helped save the M. Now that we are two years into R, it is easier talking to my neighbors without the feeling of being judged � her for having an A and me for taking her back.

If your WW is close to them and your feel they would be allies in defending your M, by all means expose. Otherwise, I would just say you are having difficulties and are in a trial separation (if asked).

Exposure is a great tool that should be use with precision. The shotgun approach can make things more difficult in recovery.

- Sh0cked

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
BH, it is a good idea for him to tell her he won't lie for her AND to just tell her afterwards he has exposed her affair. He can pick up the phone just call the neighbors and tell them or tell them when he does run into them. The one thing he shouldn't do is FOREWARN her he is going to do this. That just causes unneccessary trouble.

Fred, if you can call just a couple of the neighbor ladies and tell them the truth, they will likely spread the news for you. That exposure will get back to your wife pretty quick and will cause conflict in her affair.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,155
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,155
I can see your point ML. But confused as dont understand the theory of him picking up phone to call neighbours seems a bit drastic when they are more of aquaintances rather than friends. Also wont he look silly doing that?? better to expose cleverly by bringing it into conversations as soon as he sees them especially the gossipy ladies as you suggested.


BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months

Divorced

Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.

If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,888
F
Member
OP Offline
Member
F
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,888
With more gratitude than I can express to MelodyLane and others, I hereby present Plan B Letter - Third Draft:

Quote
November 30, 2009

S_____ _____
c/o M___ B_______
OM's Current Address
City, State ZIP

My Dear S____,

It is truly sad what has happened to our marriage and us, and the path that I must take now is not one of choice but one of self-preservation.

I know I have made mistakes in the past and I am truly sorry for helping to create an environment that has made it possible for your current relationship with M___. I do know those things I was lacking in�I just didn�t understand how important it was to us. I am continuing to grow as a man and will continue working to further understand my shortcomings in our marriage.

The past five weeks have been the most difficult time of my life. The pain and emptiness that I endure on a daily basis is almost too much to bear. My only consolation is the memories of the love we once shared, of the all good times we have spent together, your extraordinary qualities that led me to commit to spend my life with you and thoughts of us being together, someday happy again.

Unfortunately, I now find those thoughts and feelings are rapidly eroding away. Before I lose any more of the thoughts and feelings of what was once us, I must take some drastic steps.

As you know I am still willing to do whatever it takes to correct the mistakes that we have made in the past and make our marriage together stronger and closer than we ever thought possible. With all of my heart, I would like to build a new marriage with you. One in which we both feel loved, safe, and cherished. I simply cannot continue my efforts to rebuild our marriage while you are still involved with M___. It has become too painful.

Until you commit to a verifiable plan of No Contact with M___ I feel I must break off all contact with you. I will avoid seeing you or talking to you or communicating with you in any way.

Today is the day that, by mutual agreement, signed and notarized, this address ceases to be your home. In keeping with our stated goal of a mutually respectful environment, I ask you to observe the following:

� Do not call, email or text message me. When you wish to come by and retrieve your things, please contact my attorney (Attorney Name at 000-000-0000) and we will arrange a mutually agreeable time to do so. The only exception is that you may mail me a check for the car payment, due on the 4th of each month for $5**.**.

� The next time you appear at this house it should be with a moving van. I do not care to be inconvenienced by your need to make multiple trips.

� Please have your mail forwarded as soon as possible. Any mail arriving here for you will be returned undeliverable.

� I do not wish to keep the cat. Take her, or I will find an adoptive home for her.

I ask that you respect my decision to break off contact from you in this way. You must know the deep pain and humiliation I have endured because of your relationship with another person. I simply cannot be in contact with you any longer and this action is a necessity to preserve my love for you, to avoid poisoning all that we have shared together, and to give our marriage the best chance for recovery should you make the choice to save what can still be saved.

I will only be willing to discuss a future together as soon as you are willing:

� To permanently separate/have absolutely no contact with M___.

� To construct a plan together to ensure a complete separation.

� To write a No Contact letter to M___ which we will review and send together.

S_____, I have loved you in many different ways; as a girlfriend, as a wife, as a confidant, a partner and as a friend. I have loved you every one of the eight years I have known you. I still love you today.

With my love,


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
St. Francis of Assissi
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Brutallyhonest28
I can see your point ML. But confused as dont understand the theory of him picking up phone to call neighbours seems a bit drastic when they are more of aquaintances rather than friends. Also wont he look silly doing that?? better to expose cleverly by bringing it into conversations as soon as he sees them especially the gossipy ladies as you suggested.

But they are her friends. The BS doesn't have to be friends with the person to expose. Exposure involves making a list of key people in the WS's life and calling them up. Ideally, it should all be done in a strategic, planned way on the SAME DAY in order achieve the maximum impact. This is how we typically do an exposure.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,888
F
Member
OP Offline
Member
F
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,888
ML and BH, you both bring up great points. I did not think it appropriate to walk over to the neighbors and have a talk with them; I felt that the topic "might come up" during a passing convo with one or more of them.

If you have read my entire saga, you know that both my wife and I are A.A. members. When DDay occurred, in shock and pain I shared in meetings. I have been taught that "we are only as sick as our secrets." Word got back to WW that I had exposed her and she was angry. She asked me to respect her "sobriety" by not airing our dirty laundry in meetings (n.b., I have been told that I have been nothing but respectful when discussing my pain). In truth, I have been in A.A. service for a long time, and I know people throughout the state. I don't have to share in meetings any more, so when I speak, I only talk about my current pain and difficulty. After all, A.A. is only about staying sober. And enjoying it.

But the sense I get is that pressure on the A can come from many directions. I see no reason to protect her and the A. If she goes to meetings and talks about "doing the next right thing," she is exposed as a dishonest hypocrite.

Or am I again off base?


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
St. Francis of Assissi
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Fred, nuclear exposure is your best bet. The affair should be exposed EVERYWHERE. Friends, family, employer [if applicable] and children. [if applicable] Anyone who is close enough to be involved in any way in your family and anyone who might have any influence should be an exposure target. If the person is close enough for your WS to lie to, they are close enough to hear the truth.

These neighbor ladies who are friends with your W most certainly should be exposed to.

Exposure is a GOOD, POSITIVE thing that you should not be afraid of. It does not cause difficulties in a truly recovered marriage.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,888
F
Member
OP Offline
Member
F
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,888
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Fred, nuclear exposure is your best bet. The affair should be exposed EVERYWHERE. Friends, family, employer [if applicable] and children. [if applicable] Anyone who is close enough to be involved in any way in your family and anyone who might have any influence should be an exposure target. If the person is close enough for your WS to lie to, they are close enough to hear the truth.

These neighbor ladies who are friends with your W most certainly should be exposed to.

Exposure is a GOOD, POSITIVE thing that you should not be afraid of.

Even her children (by a previous M: DD15, DS13)? And her XH, to whom she owes and pays child support?

Last edited by Fred_in_VA; 11/28/09 01:09 PM.

Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
St. Francis of Assissi
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Fred_in_VA
But the sense I get is that pressure on the A can come from many directions. I see no reason to protect her and the A. If she goes to meetings and talks about "doing the next right thing," she is exposed as a dishonest hypocrite.

Or am I again off base?

Fred, affairs thrive on secrecy. Bringing it out in the open helps your W see herself through the eyes of others. It is THERAPEUTIC. I would suggest you call up one of her neighbor friends and tell her about the affair rather than waiting. It is best to expose the affair sooner, rather than later. One of these ladies might be able to put pressure on your wife.

Spread it all around AA, too.

Exposure is like chemotherapy to cancer, so don't hesitate to bring it out in the open. The affairs that are more widely, and quickly exposed are the ones that die the fastest.

Nor should your wife have grounds to object. If she objects, just tell her you were "spreading the good news!" smile


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Fred_in_VA
[q

Even her children (by a previous M: DD15, DS13)? And her XH, to whom she owes and pays child support?

ABSOLUTELY! Everyone should know. Exposure is the most potent weapon you have against the affair. Dr Harley calls it the "start of recovery." Here is Dr Harley's newsletter on exposure Exposure

He is rewriting Surviving an Affair to include his strong advocacy of exposure.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
p.s. do you know how to contact the OM's family? His family will also be a good exposure target because that will prevent the OM from bringing your wife home and introducing her to the family.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Looks great, Fred!

One other thing to consider. If you give her the letter and she won't move, then you can't go into Plan B, and she will have this letter and you will have egg on your face. It might work to your advantage to get her out FIRST and once she is really gone and the locks are changed, THEN hand her the letter.

It will be critical that you don't speak or see each other after the letter is delivered, however that is achieved.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,888
F
Member
OP Offline
Member
F
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,888
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Looks great, Fred!

One other thing to consider. If you give her the letter and she won't move, then you can't go into Plan B, and she will have this letter and you will have egg on your face. It might work to your advantage to get her out FIRST and once she is really gone and the locks are changed, THEN hand her the letter.

It will be critical that you don't speak or see each other after the letter is delivered, however that is achieved.

Again, very wise words from you, ML. Thank you.

My intent was to hand it to her right after I had removed the garage door opener, cleared the code from the car, and just before she backed out of the driveway. Not a moment before.

And as to her refusing to leave, my attorney simply said that if WW refuses to abide by the terms of a legal contract, I should contact her (the attorney) and she "would take care of it." I'm guessing that means by sending the Sheriff over...


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
St. Francis of Assissi
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,888
F
Member
OP Offline
Member
F
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,888
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
p.s. do you know how to contact the OM's family? His family will also be a good exposure target because that will prevent the OM from bringing your wife home and introducing her to the family.

Through Internet searching (paid and free -- paid isn't worth it, IMO) I found the address where OM and his W lived. I tried calling the number listed, but it was disconnected. I only have the address (and the names of their children and where they go to school from Facebook). I can't contact his kids because I'm not included in the "friend list." OMW is not listed in FB.

OM's whole family and history is shrouded in mystery. I know his name, where he works, where he lives and about his recent health problem, but it's take time, money and persistence to just get that.

I had thought to simply send a copy of the Plan B letter to her at the address I have for both of them. It could be she's moved (and one hopes the mail has been forwarded). That they are separated is not in question. That they aren't divorced, either, is also not in question. They've been separated nearly three years (and OM has a "wandering eye" I've been told).

OM's kids know about WS, I believe. She sent him a text message asking him to give her birthday wishes to his "little Scorpio." Maybe I'm inferring too much into that.


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
St. Francis of Assissi
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Fred, instead of sending the Plan B letter, it might be better to just send the OMW an exposure letter and ask her to contact you. Have you checked directory assistance under www.anywho.com to see if you could find her?

Also, what about a background check on the OM via intelius.com? I don't think they are that expensive. Have you tried that?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,775
Z
Member
Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,775
I liked your second draft the best. The thirs, with the allusions to you own contributions may or may not be true. Not every BS was a major contributor to pre-A problems.
If you really consider yourself to have been a contriibutor to a bad environment in the marriage, the third draft isfine. If not and it was all or mainly her, I would not lie about that.

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,775
Z
Member
Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,775
I would rent a billboard.

Page 4 of 57 1 2 3 4 5 6 56 57

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,254 guests, and 50 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mike69, petercgeelan, Zorya, Reyna98, Nofoguy
71,829 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5