Hi SC,

I had a pretty good vacation, although my Grandmother was in the hospital the whole time, so that put a bit of a damper on things.

On the M front, things are going okay, I guess. I'm personally still in this limbo land between just ending my M or giving my WW another chance. There is a strong part of me that just feels like I'm in in this silly stage like you see in the movies where the person loves their spouse and the spouse keeps saying I'll do better, give me another chance, but they just have to say no. Where you believe they are sincere and really mean it, but you just can't take the chance.

In a bit of irony, on the drive down to our vacation, about 10 hours drive, I bring up with my WW how I'm feeling. The usual I tell her we need to talk about this. And she says she wants to talk about it, but can we not do it on the drive, can we wait till we get there and then will set aside some time to talk. So I tell her, that isn't going to happen. If I agree to that, she will just avoid it, then eventually tell me we were going to talk, but this or that came up, etc. Anyway, so I agree, and sure enough, the whole week goes by and we don't talk at all.

So this was the source of the big blow up last night. I guess we sorted some things out during that conversation. I'm still completely perplexed on the contradictions that are my WW's behaviors.

Anyway, I'm taking Mel's advice to a certain extent in that I just feel like if we are going to try and recover, we need some sort of structure to it. As the above sort of demonstrates, left to her own devices, my WW just seems to bury these things and hope they go away.

I brought up the MB weekend, and she said she is willing to go, but to be honest, I'm not 100% sold on it myself. It's just not my sort of thing, but I may ask some questions about it and see if my thoughts changes.

Welcome back, rpynne.

I have never been to the MB weekend so I'm not trying to be a salesman here, but from where you are sitting right now, why not? What have you got to lose from it? You've tried so many different things - this one doesn't seem that hard to do. It certainly won't make your M any worse.

As much as i hate to say it, i know exactly how you feel with the limbo land. I have been there for a while myself as you know.

And i also know what you mean about the weekend not being your thing. I guess it is worth a try though, i mean it couldn't hurt. I just do not know how far down the path of limbo you are.

PS sorry about your Grandmother, hope she is feeling better.

Oh heck, never mind!

Old argument, not worth restarting!

-ol' 2long

rp:

It's when you realize that you're good either way your W goes, that you have 2 "worry."

Well, worry isn't the right term, because when you get there, you may even be giddy with happiness. And that's because what your W does or doesn't do doesn't decide your happiness. It's what you do and who you are, that does.

best,
-ol' 2long

> giddy with happiness

Happiness or contentment?

IMO happiness can be fleeting - like eating tofu stir fry...but contentment is a rib-stickin' meal with a side of gravy.

I'd give my red luggage for RP to find where his contentment lies and be able to attain it (and you all know I love my luggage).

I agree, it couldn't hurt.


This is not my worry. At my work, I am constantly confronted with the fact that making the "correct" decision at each node of a decision tree with very many branches on it does not lead to the optimal outcome over the entire decision horizon.

This is my worry for my M. Meaning, at each point that I need to make the call as to whether to continue or end it, the "correct" decision will be to continue it. However, after 20 years of correct decisions, I will be at a place I do not like.

I worry about this for you, as well.


Well, I appreciate that.

I see what you're saying, but I'm not worried, in my case, though I do appreciate the concern. I'm "content." That is a better word than "happy" in these cases, because it conveys better how I feel about the statement I'm making about my own values and integrity by making the decisions I make.

But I'm a lot older than you are. I no longer feel the "need" 2 start a marriage and family at this stage in my life, having already done so (and I have 2 great adult kids as a result of it).

-ol' 2long

Hi rprynne. Its been a long time since I was here, I don't really even know why I stopped in, I just saw the link in my favorites and clicked it.

I searched your posts to see how your sitch was going and I'm really sorry to see that this has happened. I'd hoped for better for you, but I can't really say it surprises me much.

I think you need to really stop considering your WW too much as you plan your way forward. She has made her decisions, over and over again. Hasn't she taken up enough of your time and energy already? How much are your willing to give this person?

I think you know the answer here, to me it seems pretty much unavoidable. Use your logic. What are the chances that your wife is going to accomodate herself to a marriage you find tolerable, much less happy and fulfilling? All this time and she's got a secret phone and is making contact?! Its such a fundamental lack of respect for you and the marriage and what you'd like to build. This is different than the typical post affair NC breaks imo.

Its all about you now, rprynne. What do you want out of this life? As far as we know, you only get one go round. You've said before that you aren't looking for or contemplating other relationships, and I get that. But I think you should consider that your current marriage is actually impeding your chances to find happiness, alone or with someone else. I think what you have endured has traumatized you, and that's understandable. But I think you've gotten so far into bad that you can't even see it for what it is. Bad for you is 3 steps past insanity for most! And while I gotta hand it to you for being able to ride through this with such a calm demeanor, another part of me just wants to shake you really hard and holler "HEY MAN! You do know that it doesn't HAVE to be this way, don't you?!!"

You've fought so hard, you've done what you can do. You've learned alot and I can almost guarantee you that if you ever took another chance on a relationship with someone else that it would astound you how much better it can be. You probably can't see it, can't believe it, because you're so immersed in this craziness that your wife has caused, that you have allowed to develop. This is not what you meant when you said "for better or worse". This isn't about your integrity and your promises regarding HER. This is about your integrity and your promises to YOURSELF. This is about your wife willfully destroying your marriage and you saying "oh yeah? well then I dare you to cross THIS line. . . "

Ok, she did that. Good for her. WTF are you still doing watching her have another go at it? I mean, is this a stubborness contest between you and her? Do you feel like you've quit if you just acknowledge the bald truth that this marriage doesn't work? What does she have to do to prove this to you? Marriage should not be a contest to see who can endure the most hurt, and if it were, you've won. You set a record, its going to stand for quite a while. Time to find a new game, don't you think?

I'm sorry man, I know this is harsh, but I just want you to know that life isn't supposed to be like this, and you don't deserve to have to live it this way anymore. Get yourself out of this disaster and give yourself a fighting chance to find a happy, peaceful life.

First step to get out of a hole: STOP DIGGING!
Look up, the future doesn't have to be as hard as the past and the present is.

I wish you the strength to do what you need to do.

Perplexed is maybe not the right word. I guess all I was trying to convery was that my WW's life is also no better this way. Why does she continue to do what makes her miserable when she has been given countless opportunities to do otherwise? That's more of rhetorical question as I think I know the answer.

It's okay.


Tyk - so good to hear from you. You should give us all an update some time.

Your not being harsh, and I basically agree with what you are saying. I know what I'm going to do going forward. I'd like to think I have some master plan, but basically I've tried everything I can do. It's really up to her. I hope she succeeds, since I would prefer to recover our marriage.

I'll get an update in. The short is that things are good here!

I would suggest that why your wife does these things is irrelevant to you at this point. You're a smart guy, you've thought about it for years, and you don't know the answer and I think never will.

You're talking about recovering a marriage that hasn't existed in years. She doesn't know how to be married, and you can't make her want to find out how. You've presented this option to her time and time again. Dude, she's just not that into you. . :P

You're calm and you're able to think your way around all this. You provide yourself with every "what if" scenario, and you're able to justify yourself because theoretically, anything is possible. But those "what ifs", they aren't real. They're just you wasting your life on something that has proven to be futile.

My worry is for YOU at this point, not really your marriage, because I believe you've learned everything you need to know about being married to your WW.

What would it take for you and your WW to find happiness together? I don't think she has it in her, and its silly for you to expect it of her at this point.

Good - look forward to the update.


Perhaps. I don't think it is so much about her not being into me, all though that doesn't help. It's more about she is so much into her alternative life.


Well, this is typically part of my problem. I don't think it would take much at all for my WW and I to find happiness together. That's why it is hard for me to conclude she doesn't have it in her.

BP wrote an update just recently and it very much expresses how I feel about things in my situation.

It's my wedding anniversary today.

That is a poignant note. I hope the day goes well for you. Are you doing something together?

CONGRATS!!!!!!!!!!!

How many years?

Do you have any special plans?

Happy Anniversary, Rprynne...18 years now?

:::sneaking in:::

{{{Tyk!}}} Congratulations on your short update and impulsive link-clicking. You're missed.

LA

Thanks.

It is 18 years now. We exchanged gifts and went out to dinner at our favorite restaurant. We had a lot of fun.

She brought along a marriage self-help book and wants us to work on some of the exercises in the book.