They have too.... Because they have to keep the lie going.

How's it going, HH?

Just read the detachment piece on ChaiLovers' thread and need to remind myself of this from time to time.

Spent yesterday at DDs basketball tournament out of town. This is a "trigger" event for me because two years ago, when we got home from the tournament and were scheduled to go to a Christmas party, he said he was going alone because he needed some space (before I knew about OW). Last year, the event was the day after OW's phone call to me telling me how she and D!ck had spent the morning in bed, how he's faking recovery with me "for the children's sake", and how I need to move on and accept that my marriage is over. It was the one and only phone call she and I shared. Wow -- how time flies. Two years of this crap!!!

So last night, I sent a simple text "I know you don't care but DD played great in the tournament today." I admit -- I poked a stick at him.

He sent back the following: "U would bw wrong again. I do care about DD her and I will have a relationship again."

Hummm... I THINK I only poked him to say that DD did well in the tournament. Nothing about "relationships" or anything heavy.

He seems really agitated to me. A simple response could have been "thanks for letting me know" or "I'll congratulate DD on her tournament." OK... I admit I started with a LB... but he's obviously VERY angry at me for even mentioning DD to him.

Back to detachment... I shouldn't read into his responses. Just let them go. Detach and let him figure it out.

And another thing... read something about the stages of marriage...

If I recall right, love or conflict or indifference. Seems he's in pure conflict mode.

I know, I know... I need to put the stick down and slowly back away from the dying lump on the side of the road. Who cares if it's hurt or dying or dead. When it's ready to confront me, it will. Stop aiding and abeding it.

Doesn't mean you can't admire the smokestacks from the flaming pile he's turned into though!

Originally Posted by Holyheart

I know, I know... I need to put the stick down and slowly back away from the dying lump on the side of the road. Who cares if it's hurt or dying or dead. When it's ready to confront me, it will. Stop aiding and abeding it.

I think this is part of Plan B - the stick is a tempting way to stay connected.
You will eventually become more comfortable and content with as little connection as humanly possible. At that time, the stick will serve no purpose. Until that time ... you will poke to provoke because it's a connection
:MerryChristmas:

I wonder if the stick is not as much a "connection" but my way of inflicting pain. I've felt beaten down for two years now and wasn't able, willing or strong enough to recipicate. I kept looking within -- the "what's wrong with me" syndrome -- instead of looking at him and his character flaws.

And he hid behind the "I'm a good dad" act the first year. Even OW's texts to me have bragged about him being "an awesome dad" and "always taking care of his obligations."

Guess what? He's not an awesome dad anymore and I want to tell HIM and the world about it. I probably DO want to rub his nose in it. That being a dad NOW is what matters, not the dad he used to be.

And it's not just him skipping out on the kids' games or not seeing them on Thanksgiving or not calling them... it's the financial part as well. He's dropped the ball on all ends -- visits, communication, financial.

And I feel pleasure in making him angry. I'm not the least bit hurt about his responses. Like I really am trying to push him off the cliff.

I know... let sleeping dogs lie is sound advice. But the art of war? Do I sense weakness on his part and I want to capitalize on it?

Maybe I'm ready to hit him with a golf club and make him bleed.

"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Excellent words to live by, Pepper.

I know... take the high road and turn it over to God. It's not up to me to turn the screws. I have enough to deal with. Put down the stick and walk away.

I will... for now. One day at a time.

This too shall pass.
Your feelings are what they are. Neither good nor bad.
Don't let your feelings dictate your character or your values.

You are stronger than you know.

I have no doubt that you walking away and stopping poking him with a stick will only make him angrier--if you aren't the evil ex, why, then, he has nothing to accuse you of...

Me thinks he wants to settle. Got a text from him complaining about money being spent on attorneys and AGAIN belittling me for not having a job. Then he texts "Don't need attorneys to settle this deal." I respond "Im listening..." and he stops. No more contact.

I'm not reading into this but money is obviously the issue. Yeah...I know...let attorney's handle this guy. He's way out of control to converse with.

He's obviously worried about upcoming court date where he will be not only asked to pay more support (since I'm out of work), but be chastised for not paying the full amount last month.

And what's with all the belittling comments? Several times he mentions "pity party" and "pitiful you" and "feeling sorry for yourself" and "go find a job" and "thats the way government employees think."

If he thinks his sweet, loving words of encouragement will motivate me to pound the pavement, then he's got another thing coming.

Can't let him keep bullying me or trying to control me.

This is MY OWN FAULT for not remaining dark. Unfortunately, in Plan D, total darkness isn't an option. I have to keep both eyes open to see where the enemy is and what the enemy is doing.
And attorney sitting in his glass office isn't paying attention to the blood and guts battles on the field. He's working on the tready based on the evidence I gather. And...my warchest is being depleated so I have to pick which battles I report.

The issues that are paramount in a person's mind come out unwittingly in their speech. These comments could be projection on his part. Turn them around--he's thinking, "I feel sorry for me"

So my question would be: does this make him more or less dangerous in the divorce arena? What kind of person is he? Is he someone who feigns weakness to lure his opponent into complacency? Or is he someone who knuckles under and gives in? How he tends to react might give you guidance as to whether or not to drop attorneys as he suggests.

I've known him for well over 30 years. He is not someone who feigns weakness. He's the guy who walks in a room -- ANY room -- like he owns the joint. He's the oldest of 5 kids... always the leader and always the bully. Since the A, his arrogance has grown ten-fold. He admits to everyone that he's an a-hole and for them to just "get over it."

He never knuckles down and gives in. In fact, he has a high pain tolerance. He pretty much never apologizes unless absolutely necessary.

We started dating at 15. He never bullied me. Never... until the A started. I noticed a huge change in his personality and the way he treated me. He became so secretive when we used to talk about everything. And when we rarely... and I mean rarely fought.. it had to be over something major.

Over the years, I found it best to give him the silent treatment for him to get that I was mad. Since I'm a big talker, talking it out never seemed to work. And he'd give in quickly... he didn't want me angry at him for more than a few hours. He'd apologize, give me a big smile, and it would be forgotten. Again... this was for minor offenses.

When the A started and I found out, we went at it for over a year of him back and forth, me being more than upset, and him changing the way we handled issues since he now had someone else calling the shots. I didn't know how to get my point across anymore because the rules were now out the window and I was dealing with a different animal.

Back to your questions... he's changed and the silent treatment no longer works. He's living with OW so he's not alone when I ignore him. He's fine having absolutely no contact with our teenagers or his family or our old friends. In other words, he's adapted to his new life.

In court... his sins are major and all documentable. So he can't hide behind them. He should be less dangerous in court because he will not be able to manipulate me or the facts. Outside of court, I'm manipulable because of my feelings for him.

As for him feeling sorry for him -- I agree. He works to support two families -- mine and OWs. That is his own doing. And I think he's jealous of the fact that he's supporting me. Yet he's also supporting her but he sleeps with her so it's OK in his book.

No attorneys isn't good for the deciding settlement, but it may be good to go along with it to get him to put an offer on the table. I already know it will be favorable toward him. He's "that kind of a guy." Out for himself. Anything I propose will be negotiated down. He already said that to me.

Perhaps my best bet is to work with the attorney to have my own settlement offer ready. Play offense for awhile....

Yes!! You cannot negotiate with a terrorist. Period. Any "offers" he makes will probably be laughable. Your attorney and the Judge hopefully will bring him back to reality.

You know him very well! So just playing around here with some observations . . .

Your H strikes me as "big hat, no cattle" in a way. He struts into a situation and makes a preemptive strike to keep others at bay. He's a Beta trying to make like an Alpha. Does this make sense? He wants to be the leader, but it's not a natural position for him. He has to bully and bluff--he holds up a mask with a big snarl on it to try and fool others into believing he is tough stuff, but underneath that mask is the "little man behind the curtain."

So-he's not feigning weakness; he's feigning strength. Possibly his repeated statements that focus on issues of self pity and entitlement are reflecting what he feels--he's on the ropes.

Power and strength on your part make him crazy--you're tearing away the mask that is so important to him. But any weakness on your part may well lead him to try and rip out your throat (metaphorically speaking!) because you two are enemies now.

The solution might be to "talk softly and carry a big stick." Be cordial and respectful when you deal with him--but be sure to watch your interests like a hawk.

But you sound like you have it all under control--hope things are calmer for you for Christmas!

Yep, PM... I will get going on that.

And Yep, Nano... big hat, no cattle. You have him pegged to the tee. He is a poker player in real life. He will bet big when he has nothing just to buy the pot. And if he doesn't like the game, he'll go in with nothing and walk with nothing like it doesn't matter. But he won't sit around to see who wins... he'll start up another game on another table and try to convince people to play HIS game.

I've seen this pattern over and over again. He's a conflict avoider but he has to be the center of attention. And patience? I have all the patience in the world but he gets cranky standing behind two people in line. He's known to start making a rucus just so another line gets open -- while trying to be charming along the way.

I like the "talk softly and carry a big stick" solution. I can do this now without giving in to tears or emotions because so much time has elapsed and I'm much better at detaching from each action he takes. I've come a long way, baby, and I'm not going to lose the ground I've covered. I have the upperhand; I just need to figure out how to go about using it.

Thanks for the encouragement.

HH,

My WH became a totally different person. He was always a quiet nice guy. Would give you the shirt off his back if you asked. Anything you needed, just call and he would help. Never a bad word said about anybody. Not anymore.

I didn't know him during all of this. He was nasty, vindictive, etc. Just not the person that I knew.

I would hear his offer and present your own, but be prepared to fight it out because I can assure you that his offer is going to be good for only him. I think in your case, he knows that if he gets in front of the judge he won't come out so well so you probably have more leverage than you think.

Just think about how much you will spend fighting this. WH would not settle and it end up costing us each $40K+. Clearly not worth it, but we just couldn't get him to settle.

You guys are so right about the "preemptive strike" to keep me at bay. Received three texts yesterday about attorney costs. Excerpts... "U need to be realistic about this money being spent [attorneys]...If we don't [settle] we will need a bankruptcy attorney to deal with this...hold onto whatever $ you have left because the big war with the attorneys is just starting... Have a nice life..."

I finally respond with counter fog babble: "DD got a trophy yesterday. Wooo - whooooo.....I'll get back to my pity party and you can get back to yours."

He responds "No pity party just the cold hard facts about the present!!!"

Is he serious??? THE COLD HARD FACTS ABOUT THE PRESENT?

Man... If I could have thought of a great comeback I would have. He's dropping the "bankruptcy" bomb as another threat. Yes, I hate paying attorney's so much but I have no option. He won't listen to anyone so maybe he will a judge.

Regarding a settlement -- he has said since February that he and our accountant (his friend who was having an affair with OW's best friend at the same time) would draft a settlement. And still -- today -- no settlement has been proposed.

And the reality of today? He's suppose to pay court ordered support but decided I deserved less so he paid less last month. It's out of my hands for now because we are going to court.

THE COLD HARD FACTS ABOUT THE PRESENT? Is he serious?? Is this what happens when someone FINALLY sees the reality of their consequences? Nah... if he did, he's be taking responsibility and he's STILL blaming me for everything. How dare I push my attorney to haul his butt into court for nonpayment of support.

How dare I!

lol