Reply:
"Thanks for, as usual, trying to make it look like I am the cause of your troubles. If you would have been helping to pay bills, we wouldn't be low in finances." Or fill in whatever he's done to cause the lack of money.

Stop letting him get away with manipulation.

Question: are you trying to get him back? If so, why aren't you doing Plan B BEFORE Christmas? It will have a greater impact on him if you do. If you do it after, he'll likely just walk away. (though it seems like he pretty much has already, anyway)

I haven't answered him anything yet - god, I hate this - I am trying so hard to get us out of debt and we just paid off our first loan today and I was so proud of that - it's not me who is earning the money, it's him but I have cut back so much here at home and put every penny towards paying off the debts. On top of that we are running 2 households -what does he expect?

I texted him back and asked him why he signed the form for the mortgage? His answer: "Back to that then.Ok, it's my money and I would like to know when you plan to take it like that.I may have plans like now that get trashed.You never mentioned when you would do that but why did I expect anything else I guess I am still stupid."

What is it that I always appear to be the loser? I don't get it.
I can't compete with this.

M A N I P U L A T I O N
He says that so you doubt yourself, feel like apologizing to him, and beg his forgiveness for giving him any trouble. And it usually works, doesn't it?

Did I ever suggest that you read Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men?

You really really really need to read it.

yes I read the book and yes it does work - not that I am doubting myself -I know i did nothing wrong - it's tha pattern I have to break and I don't know how.

This message exchange is almost identical to a discussion in July we had on IM about another topic - and I mean almost identical even though they are 2 different topics and I still don't know how to reply to it.

You stop accepting it!

You've got plenty of free time - get to a counselor and learn to start respecting yourself. Your kids need you to learn how to NOT be a doormat for him. Or else they'll turn out just as abusive as him. Or as big a pushover as you.

Please!

Like he asked first before putting you and your boys in this mess?!?!?!

A return message such as.... "Well we could just let the bank foreclose on our home and then the boys and I could come where you are and live with you"

I know, I know that would be a BIG LB...

In talking with my IC, and I recognize this being done by me.... giving control of my actions to WH and jumping through hoops for him... and we need to stop doing this. But, easier said than done.

Mr. Wondering has provided me with the following link on this forum- A great read if you haven't already done so.

Link to boundaries vs. Manipulation/control � an open discussion

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1818654&page=1

Don't get me wrong - I know he is manipulationg me - I just want to know how to respond to texts like this.

kateydid, I like your response - it just doesn't correspond with MB I guess

A return message such as.... "Well we could just let the bank foreclose on our home and then the boys and I could come where you are and live with you"

IMO, the reason you're having trouble is precisely because he assumes he can browbeat and manipulate you. He has no respect for you.

How to fight that? By being just as tough as him. When he gives you lip service, give it back. I see nothing wrong with that response. Let him see how it feels. Maybe then he'll start respecting you.

Is he playing dumb just to get you upset and flustered so you will blame yourself?

I would be careful conntacting a lawyer till you set aside some $$ for yourself. Print out Email, Get a copy from phone company about the text above. (if thats possible), and get a copy of the aggreement he signed about the morgage.

Get proof of infidelity if possible any way you can and do not under any circumstance feel you have to disclose anything to him right now. And then after you STILL FEEL that way STILL don't tell him anything till you have a iron clad case. Don't trust your feelings in this. You will need to trust others now. We can be trusted.
Once your ready and the lawyer says you have a good case for complete support that he can't get out of then , and only then will you be in a position to best take care of your kids.
Then hit him with the lawyer. You have to take care of yourself and children first. Hes a big boy (lol well he thinks so), he will be fine till next payday.
I also would look into the laws there regaurding how much of the $$ in thebank you can take out for yourself. Then take it all if you can.



You have got to be XXing kidding me, this guy needs a mommy. One who will kick his [censored]. Its NOT his money. Its both of yours. Does he know what the $$ equivalent of what a stay at home mom is on the market? The professional help needed for the job you do raising the Kids is probaly more than he makes. Check it out online.


This guy is a POS and thier is not one person on this earth that deserves this treatment. I don't know how he has gotten this hold over you but please for the sake of GOD and your children follow what is said here.


Catperson has nailed it on the head.


Will be checking in soon Good luck and will be praying for you

I cancelled the lawyer this morning - I couldn't even think straight yesterday evening.

Why he does it - I have no idea - we are getting on great for 2 months and then this. I still have access to our joint account and to keep him in the loop I send him an email about the money I am taking each week. I used to spend far too much - one reason he blames our marriage failure on - and I wanted to proof to him that I could and have changed.Now what my weekly email doesn't include are the household bills which go by direct debit as he can see online what they are for. And the reason I didn't tell him about the mortgage payment - he signed the form 3 days ago that we had to pay and on which date - what did he think would happen? maybe I really have to spell out everything to him, I don't know. Maybe he was just waiting for a reason to get back at me again.

Now the good news this morning. We bought a house 2.5 years ago and I forgot at the time to change the address for the child benefit each months. Anyway I got a letter this morning saying i am getting a back payment of 7k early January into my own account.I am so relieved.
Now back to the reason why I cancelled the lawyer.If I serve him now I will never find out what happened in regards to his infidelity.I will never get into his email account and I need to for my own sanity.And for that I need him here in the house using my laptop. I have all paperwork here for the mortgage - I can't get a copy from te phone company - I tried that before - but at least now I have financial security for a while.

Check out the other posts about keyloggers and they different ways to get proof of infidelity.

If you can hide that money then do so.

Catperson nailed it. He is controlling and manipulative

IMO Like a little cruel boy who feels entiltled.

I can't believe that because you spent to much money...MONEY??? That he thinks you should be treated like this.

Ok, so you were married and you spent more than you should have. SOOOO common with new marraiges. Its part of learning limits. Did you spend it on other men? No , so What di he think being married was supposed to be? A busness arangement? What did you expect? What did you want in a marriage? I am pretty sure that it wasn't this.
If you were as Mad as you SHOULD be at the way he is treating you I would probably be talking you out of poisoning him. If his money and his swinging (ahem ok censored) habits are the measure of a man to him then this guy needs an education. He is not smart. Ok Mommy, give him an education. But let the authoritys do the job they are there for. He has lost you. Don't you see? He Blew it. You were to be cherished. LOL My God this guy is losing bigtime. I would pity him but a slap of reality is what he really needs. Let God deal with him. Get rid of him and take care of yourself. He doesn't really have the equipment to do it.

Listen There are a TON of men I am afraid, who measure thier manhood with money and a ten inch ruler. Its good business in this world to keep people in that childish frame of mind. Look at the advertisements on TV and see what they are selling. Ask yourself why it sells.
If you want to have values you have to fight for them. You and your children deserve better. Do you want the boys to use and abuse thier women in thier lives? Do you want your grandkids to be taught the same? You can't allways unteach this type of stuff. God wantsus to trust him and treat others as we want to be treated. oops sorry LOVE others.. It takes faith and Guts to love. Its never to late to make a good decision. Ask Him, he'll tell ya.
If all that you have said is true about how this guy is talking to you, and you are still hiding some deep dark secret to us. It still doesn't matter. Hes in seriuos need of a wake up call. The lack of respect he shows you makes it impossible for you to teach him. You CAN help him though. By dening him you and the children to abuse. He might just go out and find another person to do this too. Thats not your problem if he continues to find people he can control. All you can do is take care of you and those children.

Everyone here knows that you are worth it. You might not right now but Please Please Please find the right people to help you. I am sorry if I sound so harsh but I am worried about you. If you don't get the right thinking and self respect going for yourself your children will suffer. Just get going and start doing the work one day at a time and kNOW you deserve better treatment and a better self image. You CAN do it I have seen many before with worse issues climb out of a hole that was going to swallow them up.

Again sorry if I seem to hard.

There is no deep dark secret on my side - the money spending and business - that's about it - I don't feel guilty about yesterday's episode - I have done nothing wrong - One of the reasons I didn't go into plan B was always the money part - he is in and out of contracting and when he doesn't work, he doesn't get paid - with me having access to our joint account at least I feel I am in control.Now that I am getting money the situation is much better.At least I have a safety net for me and the kids.

I have a keylogger installed and I am just waiting that he uses it - I am praying that this will happen X-Mas so I can go dark after that. I understand that I have to cut him loose - just my heart hasn't caught up with my head yet. You can't just stop loving someone just because you want to. It doesn't work that way. I am reading other threads here about financial wars between BS's and WS's and if I am not mistaken nearly all of the BS are still in love with their WS. At least that's how I read it.

Thank you, BS4U. This might just qualify as my "quote of the day."

Yes, but according to the Harleys if ENs are not met for a long time then it is only natural to fall off love...how come we do not follow this pattern?
blessing

Atena,
Do you mean BS EN's not being met? Why don't we all follow the pattern?

pain tolerance.

Steve Harley asked me this question. I replied "God knows!" He said "Well don't call me god but I do know. It is because you have thrown him a line of credit."

Eventually, that credit will run out and I will be done with him. That day is getting close.

TM

I think for me it has a lot to do with all the secrets surrounding this break up.
I was engaged many years ago and he cheated on me and left for her - I didn't know but friends told me about a week later.
I confronted him and he confessed - simple as that - it took me around 2 months to get over him and I did love him too.
There was no blaming, no secerets anymore - I had a clear timeline in my head and I was able to put it behind me.

But this marriage failure is nothing like it - and that's the core of the problem.

lol

Love it!

Well, of course they are! THEY didn't look elsewhere for sex.

But you have GOT to start being smarter about this. Your kids depend on you to go through this growth period. We all grow and change. This is your time. Time to give up your 'pure' dreams of what life should be, and accept what life IS. Go through your grief period and accept what your next stage of life is.

This man is NOT going to stop being abusive and manipulative. You say he didn't use to be like this, but I will challenge you on this assumption. You are a Pleaser, a Giver, and you have not had the resources previously to recognize when you're being abused because of it.

Remind me. Are you getting or do you have a job? Why not?

Because this country is in a deep recession - here are people without jobs for over a year and I am one of them looking for a job.